Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network - page 160.

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: lordoliver on August 18, 2015, 10:54:29 AM

so, what happens for example, if someone starts a "51% attack" where the logic is manipulated in a way, that inconsistent blocks are allowed?

51% attack is irrelevant here because a node doesn't have to believe the majority where it can verify logical consistency itself.

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

so, what happens for example, if someone starts a "51% attack" where the logic is manipulated in a way, that inconsistent blocks are allowed?

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: lordoliver on August 18, 2015, 10:35:41 AM

Quote from: ohad on August 18, 2015, 10:25:40 AM

Nothing at that scope has to be predefined - it can be changed with time according to a method the users themselves set.
Like it is possible to create a coin over tau that will be programmed to change its behavior with votes of X% of clients, or stake, or anything.
So it is ok to "make mistakes" like letting the pool problems arise, and when it arises, just to change the rules without having to fork.

But you wrote something of a "basic logic", that can't be changed. So if someone wants to change that, for example to a logic, that makes all other included logic senceless?

ah, the logic itself means the very low level rules of logic, the foundation of mathematics, literally. like, you cannot modify modus ponens in tau, of course, and that's the low level we speak about here. or, you cannot have a block which is logically incosistent (i.e. contradicts itself).

please recall - tau stands for tautology!

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Quote from: ohad on August 18, 2015, 10:25:40 AM

Nothing at that scope has to be predefined - it can be changed with time according to a method the users themselves set.
Like it is possible to create a coin over tau that will be programmed to change its behavior with votes of X% of clients, or stake, or anything.
So it is ok to "make mistakes" like letting the pool problems arise, and when it arises, just to change the rules without having to fork.

But you wrote something of a "basic logic", that can't be changed. So if someone wants to change that, for example to a logic, that makes all other included logic senceless?

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: lordoliver on August 18, 2015, 10:21:59 AM

Quote from: ohad on August 18, 2015, 10:12:47 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on August 18, 2015, 10:11:18 AM

Please try to find a possiblity to prevent pool mining. This is in my opinion the biggest issue of BTC...

On tau one shouldn't be concerned about those issues at all. See my replies to Synechist's comments on http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum and the protocol's flexibility https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12158861

what about making a pool and try to change the protocols base logic with a 51% attack?

Nothing at that scope has to be predefined - it can be changed with time according to a method the users themselves set.
Like it is possible to create a coin over tau that will be programmed to change its behavior with votes of X% of clients, or stake, or anything.
So it is ok to "make mistakes" like letting the pool problems arise, and when it arises, just to change the rules without having to fork.

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Quote from: ohad on August 18, 2015, 10:12:47 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on August 18, 2015, 10:11:18 AM

Please try to find a possiblity to prevent pool mining. This is in my opinion the biggest issue of BTC...

On tau one shouldn't be concerned about those issues at all. See my replies to Synechist's comments on http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum and the protocol's flexibility https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12158861

what about making a pool and try to change the protocols base logic with a 51% attack?

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: lordoliver on August 18, 2015, 10:11:18 AM

Please try to find a possiblity to prevent pool mining. This is in my opinion the biggest issue of BTC...

On tau one shouldn't be concerned about those issues at all. See my replies to Synechist's comments on http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum and the protocol's flexibility https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12158861

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Please try to find a possiblity to prevent pool mining. This is in my opinion the biggest issue of BTC...

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: Luckybit on August 17, 2015, 06:58:51 PM

I read the whitepaper, looked at the code, and with that understanding I can see Tau-Chain has massive potential.

The uncertainty is whether or not it can be developed to meet it's potential. If it can do what I think it can do, then it should be self funding and self sustainable once it gets up and running, similar to Bitshares, Ethereum, or NXT, where the community will be able to simply vote on proposals or fund new development using the market mechanisms.

Tau-Chain also has some unexpected surprises in how it has evolvability, which is something a lot of developers overlook. The only problem with Tau-Chain at this time is the difficulty in explaining the concept, and the uncertainty around whether or not it will work, but that is the same uncertainty Bitcoin had, Mastercoin had, Bitshares had, NXT, had, Ethereum had, so if you give money to Ohad consider it donation for the furthering of a science project which has potential to change the world if successful.

Thanks!
Would be nice if you could point to what you're not convinced is possible, and maybe I'll be able to point to existing implementations of such.

Luckybit

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 510

I read the whitepaper, looked at the code, and with that understanding I can see Tau-Chain has massive potential.

The uncertainty is whether or not it can be developed to meet it's potential. If it can do what I think it can do, then it should be self funding and self sustainable once it gets up and running, similar to Bitshares, Ethereum, or NXT, where the community will be able to simply vote on proposals or fund new development using the market mechanisms.

Tau-Chain also has some unexpected surprises in how it has evolvability, which is something a lot of developers overlook. The only problem with Tau-Chain at this time is the difficulty in explaining the concept, and the uncertainty around whether or not it will work, but that is the same uncertainty Bitcoin had, Mastercoin had, Bitshares had, NXT, had, Ethereum had, so if you give money to Ohad consider it donation for the furthering of a science project which has potential to change the world if successful.

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: lordoliver on August 17, 2015, 01:10:06 PM

who is selling at lower price now? I hope not the Tau-Chain team as it was promised to raise the price not to lower it...

It is some early buyer as can be seen at http://omnichest.info/lookupsp.aspx?sp=35 tx 3f252

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

who is selling at lower price now? I hope not the Tau-Chain team as it was promised to raise the price not to lower it...

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: johny08 on August 17, 2015, 07:02:43 AM

Augora is not nothing more, what can not be programmed on Ethereum.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Please, argument with links or examples.

Thank you in advance for great conversation.

I can answer in more detail later, but for now see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12158861 and you also cannot do www.idni.org/blog/code-and-money with ethereum ("thanks" to the Turing completeness as enhanced a bit more at https://docs.google.com/document/d/16239hEjL_IgXYsk2I6RMjMKhmUte30leYI3jJ-Vgp3M/edit#heading=h.2bcszerkwj2g )

johny08

legendary

Activity: 1045

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jibble on August 16, 2015, 12:34:15 PM

Quote from: Janitor on August 16, 2015, 10:50:15 AM

Quote from: ohad on August 16, 2015, 09:38:37 AM

Quote from: Janitor on August 16, 2015, 09:33:59 AM

Can someone tell me what token owners get in return?

Agoras will be an economy offering many new features, like trustlessly hiring programmers (as in the blogpost Code and Money), or hiring other professionals (c.f. Bitagoras), or computer resources (like Zennet), or release coins for any provable "thing", at the sense of tau's proofs.
All Agoras' markets will have one coin. Those coins are being pre-sold, and the msc intermediate token is only for buyers to have something transferrable in hand and will be converted to the real coins. So the msc tokens will cease being operational upon Agoras' genesis where the actual coins take place, and the buyers get a share on Agoras economy.

Okay, so it's like "app fuel" for one or more markets?

But it seems it's not possible to objectively estimate future "value" of such tokens, so how is one supposed to figure out whether to buy or not?

checking out the blog might help get a better understanding of the system and how and in what ways things can and are implemented into tau.

http://www.idni.org/blog

this one likely gives the best picture of its abilities and maybe future worth

http://www.idni.org/blog/post6

Augora is not nothing more, what can not be programmed on Ethereum.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Please, argument with links or examples.

Thank you in advance for great conversation.

SmokingSkull

sr. member

Activity: 298

Merit: 250

Quote from: ohad on August 17, 2015, 05:23:21 AM

Quote from: SmokingSkull on August 17, 2015, 05:16:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think you would get more funding that you deserve for this project if you do more marketing, make a better website, better graphics, make youtube infomercial videos, do more interviews. Then I think you would get all the funding you want for this project so you can make it a success.

The world needs the technology that you are developing. I wish you and your project success.

Well, no big media attention, the easier to run away. No sign of github yet...
better waiting

media: last article http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum
also wide exposure of Zennet (which is now a ""little"" feature in Agoras) https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8321043

github: http://github.com/naturalog/tauchain

my mistake. thx.

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: SmokingSkull on August 17, 2015, 05:16:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think you would get more funding that you deserve for this project if you do more marketing, make a better website, better graphics, make youtube infomercial videos, do more interviews. Then I think you would get all the funding you want for this project so you can make it a success.

The world needs the technology that you are developing. I wish you and your project success.

Well, no big media attention, the easier to run away. No sign of github yet...
better waiting

media: last article http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum
also wide exposure of Zennet (which is now a ""little"" feature in Agoras) https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8321043

github: http://github.com/naturalog/tauchain

SmokingSkull

sr. member

Activity: 298

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think you would get more funding that you deserve for this project if you do more marketing, make a better website, better graphics, make youtube infomercial videos, do more interviews. Then I think you would get all the funding you want for this project so you can make it a success.

The world needs the technology that you are developing. I wish you and your project success.

Well, no big media attention, the easier to run away. No sign of github yet...
better waiting

NILIcoin

hero member

Activity: 638

Merit: 530

Quote from: ohad on August 16, 2015, 03:38:55 PM

Apropos Core/XT fork, this is exactly the problem with the fixedness of the protocol. Since tau's client downloads its own code from the blockchain, and every block is a new client code, no need to fork in order to make any change to the protocol (except breaking the logic's consistency etc). ether couldn't have that too since their protocol is fixed as btc

Yes! if anyone was wondering about the tau project, that is one important answer.Tau is made for changes. If we want a system that can be trusted to hold for sometime it need to have the change built into its core logic.

statdude

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

watching this to read later.

ohad

hero member

Activity: 897

Merit: 1000

http://idni.org

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think you would get more funding that you deserve for this project if you do more marketing, make a better website, better graphics, make youtube infomercial videos, do more interviews. Then I think you would get all the funding you want for this project so you can make it a success.

I definitely agree, and upon all - a working tau client, isn't it so? I'm in a marathon to bring it ASAP.

Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network - page 160. (Read 309742 times)