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Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network - page 163. (Read 309768 times)

hero member
Activity: 638
Merit: 530

 ...My father taught me: “If a man doesn't understand, it’s because he hasn’t been told properly”. I've found it a solid principle to observe if you're trying to work with people to get things done.


Both you and your father should have asked a women....

The things Ohad and the team are doing are indeed  in the framework that require deep conceptual understanding. In the process of creating the "tools" to built a building one can not comprehend, it is very hard to describe the tool itself and how it will work.
One need some imagination and the desire to understand and learn while trusting some intuition.
    
legendary
Activity: 1098
Merit: 1000
Angel investor.
Is that what I said?

Effectively, yes.

Quote
Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable.

Ah, you are working to an idiosyncratic definition of of the term “human readable” that I don't share.

nm.

Cheers

Graham


I keep an eye on this project from the very beginning(it's Zennet->Xennet->Tau-Chain), this is a serious team with professional tech guys, but I think maybe they lack of a little bit of marketing activity, that's very this very promising project is so low-key not like Ethereum. But if you invest in this project, you can get more profit than Ethereum.
BTW, I am not a team-member of this project just an professional investor.
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
Is that what I said?

Effectively, yes.

Quote
Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable.

Ah, you are working to an idiosyncratic definition of of the term “human readable” that I don't share.

nm.

Cheers

Graham


Sorry, I can't understand your logic, and it doesn't seem you're willing to make me understand. Which is fine.
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
Is that what I said?

Effectively, yes.

Quote
Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable.

Ah, you are working to an idiosyncratic definition of of the term “human readable” that I don't share.

nm.

Cheers

Graham
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
That's right, the paper was written quickly and is not of high quality. It is not aiming to be scientifically rigorous.
So rewrite it to the appropriate quality. I think by now you might be in a position to acknowledge that stance is doing the project more harm than good.

Quote
But it doesn't change the fact we know what we're doing as can be even seen from that not-well-written paper, or other of many things I wrote about tauchain (www.idni.org/blog), or the working automated theorem prover I already wrote (github.com/naturalog/tauchain).
So if you'll get deeper into the materials you'll see that it's a very serious project, and we definitely know what we're talking about and do fulfill our promises. If you still have doubts or something more solid to tell, please ask.

You're inviting us to adopt the position that the relatively low quality of the white paper stands as testament to the fact that the team members know what they are doing? tl;dr it's just that you're misunderstood. Yeah, right.

Is that what I said?
I invite asking all hard questions, and definitely do not expect anyone to just believe me.
There are many materials and there is also a lot of code, and I'm basically doing it all by myself, so one cannot expect I'll be able to have perfect materials at any point of time (add to that we're not well-funded).
Nevertheless, the idea for itself is completely rigorous (far to mention - honest), and I'll be very glad with people trying to tackle it.

There are some unforced errors in your writing which suggest that this degree of confidence might be misplaced, e.g. “RDF family which are extremely human readable”. There are lots of qualities openly credited to RDF but “extremely human readable” isn't one of them. You might well hold a personal opinion in RDF's favour but that doesn't provide any evidential support for the claim. And if you're careless enough to allow that through, then who knows what other misconceptions are perhaps running rife through the unclearly-written text.

Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable. But Notation3? NQuads? The whole SPO notation? Sorry but I really have to disagree with you on this point. I don't think that other existing language competes with the human readability and simplicity of the subject-predicate-object structure. And if there is, tell me, and we'll try to add dependent type semantics of it, and it might be another frontend to tau.

“So if you'll get deeper into the materials” <- replay that back at leisure, see if it'd work for you. It's a very familiar (and woefully misconceived) tactic to shift responsibility to the reader.

Please tell me another "tactic" other than referring to existing materials and answering questions.
So you claim I should put less time in dev and more on docs? For how long? The next month?
Did you read the new docs btw? At http://www.idni.org/blog or linked in my comments here.

It's the team's responsibility to articulate the project, leaving it as an exercise for the reader will not suffice. My father taught me: “If a man doesn't understand, it’s because he hasn’t been told properly”. I've found it a solid principle to observe if you're trying to work with people to get things done.

I don't blame anyone for not understanding, it is indeed a concept which is very hard to understand, and it took me a lot of time (I'm not the inventor of the idea, to remind). But soon tau client will be ready and people could touch and feel. Professionally related people like you can join the IRC channel and get instructions how to run themselves the prover I wrote. I'm sure such will give you much appreciation to what we have to far.
This of course has nothing to do with the Agoras project and the presale. Tau is totally free and equal, and doesn't even have a coin. Agoras will be developed over tau. So the hard part - tau - people will get to work with soon and see what it's all about.

Serious is as serious does. Making overweening claims for the tech should be avoided for two reasons: i) they're unnecessary and ii) they undermine the effort.

Please show me *one* overwhelming and not serious claim I claimed.

tyz
legendary
Activity: 3360
Merit: 1533
finally, a real promising coin without any ico and simple algo. i like the idea behind the coin. will definetely watch it. good luck!
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1290
That's right, the paper was written quickly and is not of high quality. It is not aiming to be scientifically rigorous.
So rewrite it to the appropriate quality. I think by now you might be in a position to acknowledge that stance is doing the project more harm than good.

Quote
But it doesn't change the fact we know what we're doing as can be even seen from that not-well-written paper, or other of many things I wrote about tauchain (www.idni.org/blog), or the working automated theorem prover I already wrote (github.com/naturalog/tauchain).
So if you'll get deeper into the materials you'll see that it's a very serious project, and we definitely know what we're talking about and do fulfill our promises. If you still have doubts or something more solid to tell, please ask.

You're inviting us to adopt the position that the relatively low quality of the white paper stands as testament to the fact that the team members know what they are doing? tl;dr it's just that you're misunderstood. Yeah, right.

There are some unforced errors in your writing which suggest that this degree of confidence might be misplaced, e.g. “RDF family which are extremely human readable”. There are lots of qualities openly credited to RDF but “extremely human readable” isn't one of them. You might well hold a personal opinion in RDF's favour but that doesn't provide any evidential support for the claim. And if you're careless enough to allow that through, then who knows what other misconceptions are perhaps running rife through the unclearly-written text.

“So if you'll get deeper into the materials” <- replay that back at leisure, see if it'd work for you. It's a very familiar (and woefully misconceived) tactic to shift responsibility to the reader.

It's the team's responsibility to articulate the project, leaving it as an exercise for the reader will not suffice. My father taught me: “If a man doesn't understand, it’s because he hasn’t been told properly”. I've found it a solid principle to observe if you're trying to work with people to get things done.

Serious is as serious does. Making overweening claims for the tech should be avoided for two reasons: i) they're unnecessary and ii) they undermine the effort.


Cheers

Graham
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
People want to "get in" without knowing what this really is.

Well the whitepaper.. its a mess really. No way near a scientific report. http://tauchain.org/tauchain.pdf

I mean, its a paper consisting of acronyms and confusing logic without any references. However, that might fool the bitcointalk community. People invest in things they dont understand all the time. Funding... well they want 2 million dollars. Someone wrote that this "intimidates a lot of players". With that whitepaper i guess you do, for the worse.

EDIT: I see that the quality of the whitepaper already have been discussed earlier in this thread.



That's right, the paper was written quickly and is not of high quality. It is not aiming to be scientifically rigorous.
But it doesn't change the fact we know what we're doing as can be even seen from that not-well-written paper, or other of many things I wrote about tauchain (www.idni.org/blog), or the working automated theorem prover I already wrote (github.com/naturalog/tauchain).
So if you'll get deeper into the materials you'll see that it's a very serious project, and we definitely know what we're talking about and do fulfill our promises. If you still have doubts or something more solid to tell, please ask.
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

Do you mean the presale will continue through an exchange or have you decided to burn the unsold presale tokens & open trading?

We will continue to sell coins also in the exchange,
until the real Agoras coins will go out, in which case, we destroy all unsold coins.
full member
Activity: 137
Merit: 100
People want to "get in" without knowing what this really is.

Well the whitepaper.. its a mess really. No way near a scientific report. http://tauchain.org/tauchain.pdf

I mean, its a paper consisting of acronyms and confusing logic without any references. However, that might fool the bitcointalk community. People invest in things they dont understand all the time. Funding... well they want 2 million dollars. Someone wrote that this "intimidates a lot of players". With that whitepaper i guess you do, for the worse.

EDIT: I see that the quality of the whitepaper already have been discussed earlier in this thread.

hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

presale seems a little cumbersome to me.
on which exchange(s) will it be traded?

I will publish the full details soon
legendary
Activity: 942
Merit: 1026
is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

presale seems a little cumbersome to me.
on which exchange(s) will it be traded?
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)
legendary
Activity: 942
Merit: 1026
is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?
full member
Activity: 221
Merit: 100
HolyTransaction.com
The masses need this. It is unfortunate that the general hype market is in a slump right now Sad. Until the next Bitcoin bull run and subsequent spike in new genuinely interested users in the space... the more technology that gets built - the better!
sr. member
Activity: 269
Merit: 250
I am so curious why there is so less activity in this thread.

tau intimidates a lot of players.
i even remember then ethereum's marketing tried to explain that ethereum is a supercomputer like zennet..

You guys will succeed sooner or later, it takes time for people to realize the value of this project.
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
I am so curious why there is so less activity in this thread.

tau intimidates a lot of players.
i even remember then ethereum's marketing tried to explain that ethereum is a supercomputer like zennet..
sr. member
Activity: 269
Merit: 250
Code and Money: Which Comes First?
http://www.idni.org/blog/code-and-money
You guys are doing a fantastic and promising project, in my opinion it's better than Ethereum,  I am so curious why there is so less activity in this thread.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
I want in on this.
hero member
Activity: 897
Merit: 1000
http://idni.org
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