Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network - page 7. (Read 309533 times)

Text summary of the community QandA for December is not available

https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/ekn769/tauchain_community_qanda_summary_december_2019/

https://youtu.be/xv84BxQRn1M

Tau Chain Monthly Video Update for December is out!
Text Summary below:

Tomas

- IRC TML bot created, allowing multiple users to use TML in the chat, create databases, find intersections with other databases (consensus detection). It understands commands in TML itself, acting as a REPL which can simply be extended by UI or integrated into other software.

- Being the first real program written in TML it's a prototype so it delegates some activities to system scripts. Dragan Juan and Tomas will be moving functionality from system scripts to TML.

- Wish to make the bot updatable by itself users. This involves putting the source code into the database, so when the latter is altered the program changes. This process of collaborative code update allows us to create Alpha together.

Andrei

- Created prototype UI for TML/Alpha https://idni.multilink.cloud/

- Allows for TML only discussions, natural language English discussions, friend lists, etc.

- Automatically translates English statements in TML logic and uploads relevant subclasses. This functionality should improve in accuracy with time.

- This UI is tentative of course, a UI expert will eventually be hired.

- Opinion over opinions will also be supported at some point in the future.

- Also there's a sentiment analysis and entity detection bot in telegram/IRC that will help us understand the logic further.

Juan

- Worked on TML arithmetic support. Arithmetic function not only over universal symbols but specifically over subsets, which will make it more efficient. For example if we have two subsets {0 2} {1 3} and wish to apply the addition operator, (0+1, 0+3, 2+1, 2+3), it ends in a subset C {3 5 1}. This was implemented over BDDs in bitwise operations for addition and are very close to completing it for multiplication (over the next few days).

Fola

- Significant progress made on the legal side. Awaiting a public statement from lawyers regarding this, which will hopefully arrive pretty soon. This will reveal what's been done on the legal end over the past few months.

- Currently reading drafts of the whitepaper which will hopefully be ready for public release pretty soon

Ohad

- We can already imagine the power of Tomas' IRC bot being implemented in a UI such as what Andrei showed us. This would go a long way to making our technology more accessible to the masses. Of course, allowing natural languages will also make it much easier as users will not have to express themselves in formal logic.

- We're proud to have reached the milestone of working consensus detection in 2019 =)

- After Umar created a parser for first and second order logic, implemented transformation of formulas to Linux in conjunctive normal form. Umar's next task will be to working on context free parsing ability in TML, a field in which he's an expert.

- Dragan enhanced more of the builtin support we already made and is working on a fundamental change in TML: flexibility in changing bit order within BDDs. With dynamic bits, we can support types and everything will be more intuitive eg. When you say not something, you can associate it with something else. This feature will also help with performance, as without it right now, we use more bits than we really need, which means exponentially larger BDDs.

- Ohad himself continued researching second order logic and is considering the ability to use reflection. Reflection is an important concept in programming languages in general, but in TML to reflect the interpreter internal data would be to reflect the BDDs.

- Turing machines and many other models of computation such as Random Access Machine are infinite by definition and therefore not realizable as our physical computers don't have infinite memory.

Now if we take such a Turing or Random Access machine and limit it to a fixed amount of memory, then firstly intrigued listeners can think about why the halting problem for such machines is decidable. Secondly, running such a machine is a task in PSPACE and thus double directly in TML. Because Turing machine or Random Access machine or Automaton are basically only transition relations which are nothing more than 4 arity or 5 arity relations.

This means simulating a machine with constant memory can be done in TML right now. Once we have second order logic we can synthesize programs from requirements. But to simulate even an assembly language, as long as it has fixed memory, can be done in TML right now.

This has a huge implication: this means we can take any program in any language and compile it to TML, while it won't be equivalent to the original program, the point of equivalence will never be practically visible because it will be exactly when we run out of memory. By that we can compile OSes or even TML itself in this automatic way with which we can do something things by converting arbitrary machine code to TML.

- We've also been thinking about incentives or gaming mechanisms to encourage users to participate in the alpha and/or formalize knowledge so Ohad was playing with the idea of a point system incentivized debating platform, which is just a generalization of discussion platform as a discussion is just a debate with winners and losers.

Tau Breakthrough Milestone: Consensus Detection Begins to Work!
Thanks to Ohad's hard work on the TML and Tomas for implementing the bot that supports consensus detection.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/ei25io/milestone_consensus_detection_begins_to_work/

I've made it into a transcript here  https://steemit.com/tauchain/@dyor/ohad-asor-tauchain-interview-ama-cryptosky-and-community

I don't have Telegram. When will it be posted online?

follow the fist AMA and win 10 agrs tokens....

t.me/CryptoSkyAMA

So what are the plans for the next six months for Tau Chain?

November Community QandA Text summary is now also up
https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/e4zrtn/tauchain_community_qanda_summary_november/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGLWW_OU8x4

Tau Chain Monthly Video Update for November is out!
Text Summary below

Tomas
- Finished client proof of concept of Alpha which allows registering/unregistering users, create/delete channels, send/edit/delete messages, notifications
- TML can be used as a database to store data. Making data files accessible using widgets
- Added drafts of basic UI widgets, some functions like message editing, unregistration, notification are still missing
- Command line inputs are concatenated into one single program

Andrei
- Making progress in understanding what users are saying in English, certain translation functions working in a UI. Example in the video where 'I love cats' is translated into formal logic.
- Hoping to open this site publicly soon to help test and play around with the power of TML

Juan
- Continued working on arithmetic support for TML, completed general multiplication feature. We can now represent a*b=c in TML
- This means we can now solve the Eratosthenes Sieve test. For a given range of integers we can identify all the prime numbers efficiently.
- Moving forward from general multiplication, we're looking for more optimized representations in the form of constraint sets. For example, given two sets [a,b] and [c,d], we're only looking for the multiplication or addition of pairwise combination of those two sets. This step is challenging given our BDD data structure but we're currently able to solve for bitwise operations on unconstrained sets which will allow us to approach the problem of pairwise constrained sets in addition and multiplication

Ohad
- Focusing on second order logic
- Umar (PhD in Computer Science) wrote a parser for second order logic and is now working on transformations
- Ohad has been researching on how to solve second order logic formulas and discovered some existing work under the name of Boolean Unification. This should allow for second order logic solving, but also more research in BDDs should show us what an efficient solver would be like
- Considering how we can support Knowledge Representation Languages with Douglas Miles through common logic. We realize common logic is equivalent to notation 3 (established language within semantic web) if some of notation 3's restrictions are removed.

Fola
- Significant progress made on the legal compliance end. First major hurdle on our end is complete. Hoping to hear back from them soon.
- Still working on hiring a UX/UI dev who not only is an exceptional designer but can fully comprehend the capabilities of the tech. Douglas Miles will be helping to hire a UX researching and a UX designer

October Community QandA summary is now also up on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/dpy6sn/october_community_qanda_summary/

Ohad answers the following community questions:

Q: Discussions and knowledge building today occur on multiple mediums, where the most popular ones are video rather than text. I see Tauchain needing to be implemented on various types of mediums to go mainstream, is this something that's taken into consideration? How do you see Tauchain constructed in its fully functional form?

Q: How can Agoras' derivatives market prevent people from using leverage? If the solution is to limit the number of contracts speculators can buy, How you can be sure there won't be off exchange arranged trades?

Q: Will Tau contribute to better cyber security, and if so how?

Q: Seeing as the success of Tau is heavily dependent on the number of participants in the discussion, what steps are taken to get Tau known to reach a 1 million user conversation?

Q: Tau places emphasis on scaling discussions, but what about scaling decisions? As public decisions become bigger they become less out own, this is a dilemma in public decision making where the decision maker is influenced by the court of law and the court of public opinion. Are there plans to help the decision maker to take on the responsibility of big public decisions in the context of Tau Alpha?

Q: Google claims they have quantum supremacy now, who will quantum computing affect Tau and crypto?

Q: What parts of the TML are each of the TML developers working on?

Q: Ohad, you wrote an interesting article on Tau vs Ethereum. Lots has changed since then so can we get an updated transcript?

Q: Would it be possible for Ohad to do an AMA in the telegram chat? It'll give a chance for the community to interact with him more directly sometimes.

Q: When we convert our placeholder to mainnet tokens on the Alpha, not all of the tokens will be converted as some have lost their private keys, would you be issuing more tokens? Secondly, what can we expect to be completed percentage wise by the end of this year?

Q: Regarding computational resources market, are you aware of iExec? Is this a project that's a threat or one we would actively pursue to collaborate with?

Q: Our current community count seems quite low in light of our aspirations of scaling discussions to a million participants, is this not a problem?

Tau Chain October Update Video is now out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnEAIQtoxxc
Summary:

Tomas
- Implementing basic discussion features in Alpha, added 3 objects: Users, Discussions and Posts
- Simple proof of concept in the form of a server look up
- UI widgets for profile, feed, posts etc. Still basic but functional
- Alpha is without networking so far, but will hopefully change soon
- Will examine vid library for authorization and authentication soon

Andrei
- Structure will be micro services based with central broker, this will allow the use of different languages for every service
- Server has been created to test TML functions online internally
- You can subscribe to formal discussions and participate on the client, then the TML engine will deduce the result of multi party discussions
- The client will evolve to support network features

Juan
- In the process of adding support for arithmetic operations in TML. So far addition is supported
- Multiplication is partly done
- Regressional test suite as we improve the architecture of TML

Fola
- Another person to have joined the team (I didn't quite catch the name sry)
- More hires to come in R+D and Q+A
- Still in the process of hiring UX/UI expert. Some promising designers are on the short list
- Progress on the whitepaper is continuing along
- Working with Legal teams in the US to take care of matters such as SEC compliance
- Will be working on exchanges as we approach alpha, hopefully good news on that front to come in the near future

Ohad
- Progress has been good on alpha, and arithmetic is difficult due to the nature of Binary Decision Diagrams, so it's pleasing to make progress there, special thanks to Juan
- Arithmetic support will likely significantly improve parsing performance
- Dragan is working on builtin support for TML, which is also important
- I've been working on CQC. CQC that supports negation is extremely difficult due to the class of problems which it belongs under complexity theory
- CQC is necessary for converting logic to code as well as translating languages: If we write a translator for language X -> language Y, we want a translator for language Y -> language X for free.
- Most importantly, we wish to support second order logic. If users can use forall, there exists, and, or, not over elements as well as sets, TML will be substantial superior compared to other solvers and theorem provers in terms of features and performance.
- Second order logic may be the most important and difficult to implement feature that TML will have.
- This will take us to a new level regarding the ability to reason about knowledge and program TML itself to solve its own problems.
- A second order logic solver will be a monumental step forward.
- Dragan and Juan will be assisting Ohad on this massive task after they're done with their current work. Hopefully we can put this together soon.

September Community QandA Written Summary is now out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/dbnf17/september_qanda_summary/

Questions include:

What is the progress towards any 5 Agoras end goals? Can you also tell us why the decentralized computer aspect of Agoras is superior to the competition?

Can Tauchain be used by anyone or only programmers?

How will Ohad allocate his time after the TML and discussion platform are launched? Will Ohad attend conferences to spread the word about the project?

It took Cyc 30 years to build their knowledge base. How many users do we need to build ours and how skilled will those users need to be?

Will Oracles be better than Tau/Agoras?

When will Ohad appear in crypto public? What is the status of the ICO funds? What is your opinion of the Omni platform which is functional but not user friendly?

Are there more purposes and incentives for holding AGRS? Will the platform solely accept payment in AGRS? This may be inefficient as you'll have to transfer fiat into Bitcoin and Bitcoin into AGRS etc. Will we get an Agoras tokenomics article?

How will consensus be reached initially if users are discussing which methods to adopt to reach consensus?

Regarding consensus and options blogpost, what are your toughts on integrating layer 2 solutions for scalability if there's also a derivatives asset exchange?

Tau Chain September Update Video Is Out!

https://youtu.be/jpLhuKLjkS4

Ohad

- Dragan completed support for equalities and inequalities

- Ohad discovered a way to compare integers in BDD which Dragan implemented

- Proof extraction completed, including negation support. It's still yet to support other features like equalities, compulsion of integers, referencing tempo in relation symbols and parsing the proof for the next program.

- Basic Conjuntive Query Containment done. Still yet to be supported are negation, equalities and inequalities. Negation support is challenging

- Preliminary CQC related optimizations have been implemented. They've not yet yielded performance improvements. More work is needed here.

- 7 main things to do: support arithmetic, built ins, compound terms, self interpreter, first order formulas, reordering BDDs and tree extraction.

- Looking for another TML dev, UI/UX dev and QA manager.

Tomas

- Updated error handling so you no longer required to exit the program to check errors

- Serializing TML result binary payload

- Everything works except one issue about executing TML in browser

- Adding description features and using networking API from monitoring

Andre

- Built an messaging server so files can be exchanged over it

- Encryption and certificate authorization will be added next week

- Moving to p2p very organically

Fola

- Building internally so we're ready to form strong partnerships

- 2 more people in a trial phase

- Another company handling the Logo

- Taking the necessary steps to organize work around this project into one cohesive professional unit and preparing for the next phase

- Whitepaper is almost done and hopefully can be presented within a month

Welcome to the long game.
Well, If CMC would give us a proper marketcap listing, we would be on page 2 or 3. We did send them all the information (list of wallets, wallet explorer, exchanges, token distribution etc. etc.) like 5 times but they always complained about some unreasonable things that were quite confusing. But really, they are not all that important.

What is important is that the tech seems to work out, devs are coding and all of them are the real deal.

Things for sure have started to accelerate. Check out the the github: https://github.com/IDNI and also the interesting positions we offer: http://www.idni.org/careers/

Please check out Ohad's new blog post where he covers Consensus and the power of Derivatives

http://www.idni.org/blog/consensus-and-options

Omg people still holding this stuff? How long has it been? 5 years or something? Wow this is amazing. If you guys are still not dead then i think i should keep my shitcoin bags.
No product, no liquidity, one or two devs lol.
And i was worried that my holdings were shit, but seeing this now. Jeezzz there are a total of 2837 cryptos on coinmarketcap and this is listed 2149th Oh my fucckking god.

Where are all you guys? Where are you hiding? Telegram or something? Lol i got to see this.

........

Rofl are you serious?! There are maybe 30 people there. They have this sick man crush or something on you. Its all memes about how smart you are hahahhaa.
Youre definitely smart thats for sure mr Asor.
I mentioned zombiecoins to some of my friends and you are from now on the crypto i will use to explain that to them.
Keep on going i suppose lol. Just.... wow!

ohad,are your still coding with nothing realized for more than 4 years,no workable product released.

Transcript of Community QA August

https://www.reddit.com/r/tauchain/comments/cypty6/transcript_of_community_qa_august/

See the answers to the following questions asked by the community in the above reddit link

Will self defining Tau result in Tau being able to optimize it's own performance? - Marko

What will be the first language? - Marko

Will the discussion platform be launched even if you're not happy with the performance? - Marko

Can you give us some real target dates for TML and the discussion platform? - Subhendu

How do you see Tauchain in 10 years if everything goes well? - Viktor

What's the Roadmap?

How Confident are you Ohad in your ability to finish all parts of the project up to and including Agoras?

Is it necessary to complete proof extraction before work can continue with conjunctive query containment?

August Tauchain Monthly Update Video and Summary

https://youtu.be/W86dPdQ5jOk

Tomas:

- Currently working on Alpha discussion platform

- Started as a rewrite of TML playground from JavaScript to C++

- Uses Wt. Framework which renders UI in a Web browser and Alpha executes TML locally or remotely

- Tabular view on the output

- Working on error handling

- Serializing values of BDDs and compiling them

- Alpha can already read programs from files which we use as worldviews as a proof of concept. Adding users and networking will be straightforward



Ohad:

- Query Containment is viewed as the holy grail of optimization by Ohad pertaining to TML. Generally, programs using proof search require aggressive optimization to know which route down the search tree not to go early on.

- Work on query containment will have to wait until work on proof extraction is completed as the latter is a requirement

- Proof extraction is challenging due to TML's negation and deletion

- TML and Alpha are being developed in parallel, TML can be used for alpha purposes in its current form

- Dragan is helping Ohad with TML while another dev will help Tomas with Alpha



Fola:

- Helping with the hiring side conducting a lot of interviews

- Legal strategy from two sides: European and American

- US SEC Lawyers helping strategize KYC process

- Hiring experienced writer for Whitepaper which will hopefully be clear and accessible



Isar:

- Delisting from OpenLedger due to low volume along with many other tokens

- Exploring other exchanges and are likely going to select two

- We currently have two Chinese exchanges and are looking to exchanges from other geographic locations

- Fan website almost completed barring minor design alterations

Nobody is promoting the Openledger delisting as good news. We're simply informing our stakeholders so they can take the necessary steps to withdraw their coins.

It would be trivially easy to manipulate price when there is such low trading volumes. A tiny fraction of the money that went to hiring new devs and business development work could have easily been spent to fake price movement. Ironically, we were delisted for lack of volume and had the team been dishonestly manipulating price, we'd still be on OpenLedger.