Taxation on the alts | Bitcointalksearch.org

windjc

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Quote from: RodeoX on March 31, 2017, 08:58:55 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 08:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Of course you absolutely owe taxes on alt-coins. Don't let the fools here convince you otherwise and risk your profits.
So I'll assume your in the U.S. In that case you owe capitol gains on the profits you made. It looks like your gain was 10%. If you paid $1 for your alt (I'm using $1 to keep it simple) and your alt rose to $1.10, then you owe a percentage of that $0.10 profit.
The rate (percentage you owe) varies depending on your tax bracket. It could be 0% or sometimes as high as 15%. But 10% is normal. In this example you owe $0.01 to the government.

If you failed to pay you could be charged penalties, late fees, interest on the penny, and may face jail time; and you still owe the penny. That's not likely for a penny, but there is absolutely no question of taxation on alts or any money you make.

If you own a stock - say Apple - and it goes up 10% in a fiscal year, you do not owe taxes on that appreciation UNTIL you "realize the profit" buy selling it for fiat. Likewise, when you sell your bitcoin for fiat it is considered realizing a profit and loss and is taxable. However, selling one alt for another or for bitcoin is not "realizing profits." Those are still property assets. When you sell your alt for fiat or convert your alt to bitcoin and then sell for fiat then you are "realizing" profits and have to pay taxes.

This is called a like-kind exchange:

"A like-kind exchange under United States tax law, also known as a 1031 exchange, is a transaction or series of transactions that allows for the disposal of an asset and the acquisition of another replacement asset without generating a current tax liability from the sale of the first asset. A like-kind exchange can involve the exchange of one business for another business, one real estate investment property for another real estate investment property, livestock for qualifying livestock, and exchanges of other qualifying assets. Like-kind exchanges have been characterized as tax breaks or "tax loopholes."[1]"

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Quote from: Qartada on April 02, 2017, 08:50:27 PM

Quote from: RodeoX on March 31, 2017, 08:58:55 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 08:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Of course you absolutely owe taxes on alt-coins. Don't let the fools here convince you otherwise and risk your profits.
So I'll assume your in the U.S. In that case you owe capitol gains on the profits you made. It looks like your gain was 10%. If you paid $1 for your alt (I'm using $1 to keep it simple) and your alt rose to $1.10, then you owe a percentage of that $0.10 profit.
The rate (percentage you owe) varies depending on your tax bracket. It could be 0% or sometimes as high as 15%. But 10% is normal. In this example you owe $0.01 to the government.

If you failed to pay you could be charged penalties, late fees, interest on the penny, and may face jail time; and you still owe the penny. That's not likely for a penny, but there is absolutely no question of taxation on alts or any money you make.

Sure, it is an asset and you can be charged for it, but that doesn't change that it's pretty easy to avoid and tax. You're only charged taxes because your earnings are in it, but you can always take them out somewhere for cash or go through some basic methods and avoid taxes without "evading" them.

To avoid being tax is like you are laundering your money for your favor, it is not good because if there is a law that really requires you to pay taxes you will have to follow it if you do not want your money will be compromise in the future. Though it's anonymous but it can be easily trace if the government will do actions to strictly impose it, remember that the government has all the power to do that.

Qartada

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Quote from: RodeoX on March 31, 2017, 08:58:55 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 08:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Of course you absolutely owe taxes on alt-coins. Don't let the fools here convince you otherwise and risk your profits.
So I'll assume your in the U.S. In that case you owe capitol gains on the profits you made. It looks like your gain was 10%. If you paid $1 for your alt (I'm using $1 to keep it simple) and your alt rose to $1.10, then you owe a percentage of that $0.10 profit.
The rate (percentage you owe) varies depending on your tax bracket. It could be 0% or sometimes as high as 15%. But 10% is normal. In this example you owe $0.01 to the government.

If you failed to pay you could be charged penalties, late fees, interest on the penny, and may face jail time; and you still owe the penny. That's not likely for a penny, but there is absolutely no question of taxation on alts or any money you make.

Sure, it is an asset and you can be charged for it, but that doesn't change that it's pretty easy to avoid and tax. You're only charged taxes because your earnings are in it, but you can always take them out somewhere for cash or go through some basic methods and avoid taxes without "evading" them.

PokerFace3

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Quote from: jovs on April 01, 2017, 09:19:36 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes i guess the topic i pointing on the fees we experience when we used blockchain in trasaction. But for me its not a big issue regarding on fees on bitcoin because at the first place bitcoin do not have tax in the government so we do not pay something out of our money in regards on bitcoin. Fees is just like tax it would help the community of bitcoin to upgrade or to improve the way of transaction on bitcoin. And in fact the fee is much more low value than taxes so its not bad. And if you are having trouble on fees i suggest to use a backup wallet so you can have transaction without any fees.

I don’t know who told you that fees goes to community improvements or upgrade, but they are utterly wrong because fees goes to the greedy miners who keep on asking for more and more each time the price changes, I would actually consider them like taxes and the government here are the miners because not only they take taxes they also control how fast the transaction goes so it is like a bribe the more you give them the faster your transaction goes.

I am still surprised how we haven’t made a riot over this this has been going on forever and they are just still keep on going, if we don’t do anything about this eventually thing will become more serious and this is starting to drive people away.

jovs

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Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes i guess the topic i pointing on the fees we experience when we used blockchain in trasaction. But for me its not a big issue regarding on fees on bitcoin because at the first place bitcoin do not have tax in the government so we do not pay something out of our money in regards on bitcoin. Fees is just like tax it would help the community of bitcoin to upgrade or to improve the way of transaction on bitcoin. And in fact the fee is much more low value than taxes so its not bad. And if you are having trouble on fees i suggest to use a backup wallet so you can have transaction without any fees.

RodeoX

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Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 08:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Of course you absolutely owe taxes on alt-coins. Don't let the fools here convince you otherwise and risk your profits.
So I'll assume your in the U.S. In that case you owe capitol gains on the profits you made. It looks like your gain was 10%. If you paid $1 for your alt (I'm using $1 to keep it simple) and your alt rose to $1.10, then you owe a percentage of that $0.10 profit.
The rate (percentage you owe) varies depending on your tax bracket. It could be 0% or sometimes as high as 15%. But 10% is normal. In this example you owe $0.01 to the government.

If you failed to pay you could be charged penalties, late fees, interest on the penny, and may face jail time; and you still owe the penny. That's not likely for a penny, but there is absolutely no question of taxation on alts or any money you make.

hajimasan

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Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 08:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

I think there is nothing like the tax to make deals in the bitcoin or altcoin . This is the quality of the bitcoin that have no tax and no more charge to use it by own .
But here if you will make study throughly about this then you will found that there is like a system that can force you to pay tax to the government .
Here I am saying that if you will make direct deal with your bank money to bitcoin at exchange then the bank or government laws will be applicable upon your bulk transaction and in that case you need to pay tax .
But if you will make small deals within range of 10-1000$ then I don't think that you need to pay anything like the tax .

milewilda

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Quote from: Viscore on March 30, 2017, 09:47:59 PM

Quote from: Qartada on March 30, 2017, 07:26:55 PM

Because of just how many new altcoins and slight variations that they make it's very hard for governments to make people declare their earnings in altcoins if they trade them directly to fiat. Generally though I would trade back into Bitcoin and then that into fiat as it's more convenient and you can (usually, remembering Mt. Gox) trust that your Bitcoin is pretty safe being only briefly held in the exchanges.

I don't think it would be hard for the government to tax altcoins, in the end we all exchange our altcoins into fiat in order to spend it.
The government will regulate exchange sites whether we like it or not and since they are regulated we have to comply with the laws and regulation
in order to use their service. That way we have to comply with the KYC and the moment the government can make a comprehensive law, we will
know if we are obliged to pay or not based on the rules.

Implementing taxation rules on each exchanges isnt really hard at all if government would decide to impose taxes and the owners of exchanges doesnt have any choice but to obey the rules because this is part of the regulation.Taxation on alts would be possible but implementing it would really takes time.

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Quote from: Qartada on March 30, 2017, 07:26:55 PM

Because of just how many new altcoins and slight variations that they make it's very hard for governments to make people declare their earnings in altcoins if they trade them directly to fiat. Generally though I would trade back into Bitcoin and then that into fiat as it's more convenient and you can (usually, remembering Mt. Gox) trust that your Bitcoin is pretty safe being only briefly held in the exchanges.

I don't think it would be hard for the government to tax altcoins, in the end we all exchange our altcoins into fiat in order to spend it.
The government will regulate exchange sites whether we like it or not and since they are regulated we have to comply with the laws and regulation
in order to use their service. That way we have to comply with the KYC and the moment the government can make a comprehensive law, we will
know if we are obliged to pay or not based on the rules.

Qartada

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Because of just how many new altcoins and slight variations that they make it's very hard for governments to make people declare their earnings in altcoins if they trade them directly to fiat. Generally though I would trade back into Bitcoin and then that into fiat as it's more convenient and you can (usually, remembering Mt. Gox) trust that your Bitcoin is pretty safe being only briefly held in the exchanges.

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Quote from: whizter on March 30, 2017, 04:42:21 PM

Quote from: Zenithar on March 26, 2017, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: grandy on March 25, 2017, 06:54:30 PM

Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

i also agree with you that if the governments will consider bitcoin as legal currency then they can get a lot of tax from it. as then they will become able to put tax on alt coin also.

I believe most governments don't know much about Bitcoin, and much less about Alt Coins. Probably they would start taxing Bitcoins only, so the Bitcoin enthusiasts would start using alt coins trying to cheat the government decision, it could give us some time until the government discover again about the "trick" and start taxing it also.

This would be the end of the dream of using Crypto Currencies... Anyway, until Bitcoin becomes a real threat to government there is a lot of time, we are safe for now.

whizter

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Quote from: Zenithar on March 26, 2017, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: grandy on March 25, 2017, 06:54:30 PM

Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

i also agree with you that if the governments will consider bitcoin as legal currency then they can get a lot of tax from it. as then they will become able to put tax on alt coin also.

MyIdeas

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Quote from: beerlover on March 27, 2017, 10:04:02 AM

Quote from: Zenithar on March 26, 2017, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: grandy on March 25, 2017, 06:54:30 PM

Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

Right now, bitcoin is still not regulated because people still don’t use it to make huge incomes, but I am pretty sure when the bitcoin prices reaches something like $2000 or more taxes will become a thing since people will start making a ton of money from it, but trading it with small amounts is always a solution.

No even at that time there will be no any tax on bitcoin or any altcoin because till the time when government approve bitcoin or any altcoin as a currency they cannot impose any type of tax on them.

beerlover

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Quote from: Zenithar on March 26, 2017, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: grandy on March 25, 2017, 06:54:30 PM

Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

Right now, bitcoin is still not regulated because people still don’t use it to make huge incomes, but I am pretty sure when the bitcoin prices reaches something like $2000 or more taxes will become a thing since people will start making a ton of money from it, but trading it with small amounts is always a solution.

bncbnc

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Quote from: Zenithar on March 26, 2017, 04:55:08 PM

Quote from: grandy on March 25, 2017, 06:54:30 PM

Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

and i think there is also so much pressure on government from the people side. and so we can hope that they will consider bitcoin as legal currency. and they will also give support to bitcoin.

Zenithar

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Quote from: grandy on March 25, 2017, 06:54:30 PM

Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

yes that is right, and i think government must be thinking about how to legalize bitcoin because they can get such a good amount from bitcoin if they will impose tax on bitcoin so they will now try to legalize bitcoin.

grandy

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Quote from: kidoseagle0312 on March 25, 2017, 09:04:17 AM

Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

yes government cannot impose tax on anything which is not yet consider as legal, and they can only put tax on such items which are legal in a country.

kidoseagle0312

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Quote from: Immakillya on January 18, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Theres no tax is being implemented on either bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Government is not in control on any transactions being made on blockchain because it decentralize. Maybe you are reffering to fees if you are going to exchange you monero to bitcoin. Well, thats depends on exchange fees. Some exchange are charging low fees and some are not. You should go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=223.0

Yes,I do agreed on this matter. That's why the government of each nation can't control it because of the decentralization of bitcoin has. so that there is no any taxes nor even in the crypto or altcoins. But I knew majority of the government are really planning to give any tax once they approve to become legalize the virtual currencies. But that's not I think will going to be happen.

olubams

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Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 08:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Why would you bother yourself when government that is saddled with the responsibility of collecting taxes has not asked to come and pay tax and even if the government of your country has asked you to pay tax then you shouldnt bother yourself so much about the technicalities because they will know how to do the computation and if you are not ok with it, you can ask for how they arrive at that amount if your tax liability...

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: Potato Chips on February 12, 2017, 02:01:14 PM

The government has no control in bitcoin as well as the altcoins that's why there is no tax going on between them. If you're

referring to the fees it depnds on which exchange site you will use. There's still some speculations around the forum that the

government might put a tax on them in the future. But this will be difficult because as I have said they have no control about it so

the exchange sitea that are based on their country that trades cryptocurrenies will probably the ones going to be affected .

Nope.
At least in the USA, all profits are taxable. This is a fact and has been for many decades. Fail to pay capitol gains and you will be fined, could be jailed, plus you still owe the tax and interest. It is not up to the exchange to pay your taxes. It is up to you.

Topic: Taxation on the alts (Read 4704 times)