Taxation on the alts - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Serpens66

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 30, 2017, 01:41:16 PM

Quote from: Serpens66 on January 30, 2017, 01:38:02 PM

And of course this is also true for Altcoins, although it is very very difficult, do keep track on thousands of trades and handle the bitcoin/altcoin stuff.

But just because it is incredible difficult to keep track of thousands of trades and also for authorites it is difficult (or p2p impossible), it does not mean that there is no taxation.

well, i for one wouldn't bother declaring an alt gain. you don't really have money, you just have a higher abstract number than before.

Yes, it is a real pain. That's why I do not trade altcoins much.
And I think the whole taxation from goverments is at the moment like "We don't know much about it, but we want to get taxes, so make it -that- way", while this way is just too difficult, even for tax authorities. So it is quite unlikley that you will be charged for undeclared small profits. But if you are making big profits with altcoins, it might be the best to ask a professional person....
And yes, I also hate this...

European Central Bank

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Quote from: iram3130 on January 30, 2017, 12:17:32 PM

That will be called as transaction fees rather than "Tax". And Yes I do agree that there is a little extra fee for those transactions but it will be profitable if you are wise enough to invest in a good altcoin.

nope. it's capital gains. you're paying tax on your declared profits just the same as stocks, property etc.

Quote from: Serpens66 on January 30, 2017, 01:38:02 PM

And of course this is also true for Altcoins, although it is very very difficult, do keep track on thousands of trades and handle the bitcoin/altcoin stuff.

But just because it is incredible difficult to keep track of thousands of trades and also for authorites it is difficult (or p2p impossible), it does not mean that there is no taxation.

well, i for one wouldn't bother declaring an alt gain while it remains in crypto. you don't really have money, you just have a higher abstract number than before. you haven't realised the profits yet.

Serpens66

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Incredible how many people here are sure that there is no tax on bitcoin in no country ?!

Of course in most countries you have to pay taxes for your bitcoin profits.
Only the kind of taxation varies. In some countries you pay tax for capital gains. In other countries like germany you add your profits to your income and pay normal income taxes.
And of course this is also true for Altcoins, although it is very very difficult, do keep track on thousands of trades and handle the bitcoin/altcoin stuff.

But just because it is incredible difficult, also for authorites (or if p2p it is impossible for authorities), it does not mean that there is no taxation.

Just google for bitcoin taxation.
Eg. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Taxes-101/Tax-Tips-for-Bitcoin-and-Virtual-Currency/INF29402.html

ikydesu

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Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

Miss spell here, well the fees is depends on the exchange service charge the transaction, usually it's not expensive you just to manage the profit, your current price - transaction fees = your profit. Exchange to fiat is same. No you don't need to pay tax, unless your country have been legalize bitcoin and asked for tax.
AFAIK monero is the one option to mixing the transaction, the government will hard to find it.

Amph

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 29, 2017, 04:40:19 PM

what the hell is with all these people claiming it's tax free? get real.

it'll depend on your jurisdiction. in most places it'll be capital gains and technically in most places that's only payable when you sell an asset into fiat. there's no way i'd bother reporting a huge alt gain even more so if it stays in bitcoin.

since you can't spend monero anywhere then you have to convert it into bitcoin and then sell that bitcoin. that's where your tax is liable.

you can actually spend monero on the darkweb, this should make it not tax free, but since monero is anonymous, the government will have an hard time finding anything about your TX

because fo this they will not even bother, but for huge money movement in the altscene, some force might investigate privately, one never know, who i tracking you if you are doing serious with money

iram3130

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 29, 2017, 04:40:19 PM

what the hell is with all these people claiming it's tax free? get real.

it'll depend on your jurisdiction. in most places it'll be capital gains and technically in most places that's only payable when you sell an asset into fiat. there's no way i'd bother reporting a huge alt gain even more so if it stays in bitcoin.

since you can't spend monero anywhere then you have to convert it into bitcoin and then sell that bitcoin. that's where your tax is liable.

That will be called as transaction fees rather than "Tax". And Yes I do agree that there is a little extra fee for those transactions but it will be profitable if you are wise enough to invest in a good altcoin.

Natalim

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 29, 2017, 04:40:19 PM

what the hell is with all these people claiming it's tax free? get real.

it'll depend on your jurisdiction. in most places it'll be capital gains and technically in most places that's only payable when you sell an asset into fiat. there's no way i'd bother reporting a huge alt gain even more so if it stays in bitcoin.

since you can't spend monero anywhere then you have to convert it into bitcoin and then sell that bitcoin. that's where your tax is liable.

Too bad you live in a country where they taxed bitcoin, I have the liberty to maximize my income in bitcoin or altcoins because in our country it is tax free and the government are still the process of making a law to eventually tax bitcoin. But I guess it would take long as bitcoin is not that big in our country, so the need is not that urgent.

European Central Bank

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what the hell is with all these people claiming it's tax free? get real.

it'll depend on your jurisdiction. in most places it'll be capital gains and technically in most places that's only payable when you sell an asset into fiat. there's no way i'd bother reporting a huge alt gain even more so if it stays in bitcoin.

since you can't spend monero anywhere then you have to convert it into bitcoin and then sell that bitcoin. that's where your tax is liable.

burner2014

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Maybe you are referring to transaction tax, it depends on your country.
I am not really aware how much it could be. But, if you were referring to taxing your income it depends in your countries tax formula. But, since bitcoin is not yet regulated/control by almost all country I think you don't need to declare it.

markyminer

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Quote from: X-ray on January 20, 2017, 03:43:55 AM

Quote from: dunfida on January 20, 2017, 03:15:30 AM

Quote from: bettercrypto on January 20, 2017, 02:55:53 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 19, 2017, 02:01:48 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

you need to consult a professional my friend, any suggestion here may be worse than doing nothing for you.

but as far as i can tell you, i believe you report taxes on the profit you make from trading and if you calculate it after some time not each trade. so for example you make 20% and lose 10% and make 5% then you report total of 15% profit and pay taxes on that.

but also at the same time i think in countries like US they consider bitcoin a commodity so maybe having bitcoin may be subjected to taxes. again as i said consult a professional lawyer or something.

This is the best suggestion here in my opinion, even if altcoin is not taxed, you still need to declare your profit to the government. Especially if your government is very strict when it comes to tax implementation.

This would depend on a certain individual if he would declare or not regarding on its income but i dont think this would be implemented on alts.For bitcoin it would possible but for alts i dont think soo.Theres no tax on this but only fees anytime you convert your alts to bitcoins.

If the taxation can be implemented into bitcoin and gaining its success, then why it's can't be implemented to another altcoins which have the same system? i think that it's depend on the government on how they put their effort into the taxation of cryptocurrencies and finally could cover the whole cryptocurrencies into taxation which many people and i honestly don't like.

yes that is right to say that the taxation of other alt-coin concern with bitcoin. if the government will consider bitcoin ias legal currency and when they will impose tax on bitcoin, i think the way for other alt coins will also clear to turn them as legal currency and then also impose tax on them. but still it requires a lot of time and it will also depend on the position of alt coin.

pinkpanther03

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Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

I never know that there is already happening a tax deduction in some of the altcoins. I think that is not good, because is a digital currency that is decentralized, and I know majority of the altcoins too are also decentralized due to they clone bitcoin. where even the banks or the government cannot control it. So for me taxation in the alts are a good idea.

cryp24x

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I think if the government target an exchange, and impose a tax on every conversion, they can be easily taxed though the government can not track and implement taxes on people who are converting thru p2p. As a matter of fact if we look at the scenario as a whole, it is very difficult to tax all transactions regarding bitcoin and more difficult on altcoin.

justdimin

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Quote from: bitbunnny on January 20, 2017, 02:53:38 PM

There is no chance to tax the alts. Who could ever control that, there are so many altcoins and the new ones are appearing all the times. And I don't see the point in this, governments would achieve nothing with this.
Like with Bitcoin, only profit made of it could be taxed but the coins itself no.

Yes, not just with altcoins even with bitcoin there will be no possibility of taxation until we are voluntarily accepting about our holding.

Because there will be a lot of possibilities to encash both altcoins and bitcoins anonymously using in person trades. So authorities will be having very less chances to track our cryptocurrency holdings.

But when you are using bank accounts for cashing out certainly you need to pay taxes.

bitbunnny

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There is no chance to tax the alts. Who could ever control that, there are so many altcoins and the new ones are appearing all the times. And I don't see the point in this, governments would achieve nothing with this.
Like with Bitcoin, only profit made of it could be taxed but the coins itself no.

markyminer

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Quote from: X-ray on January 20, 2017, 03:43:55 AM

Quote from: dunfida on January 20, 2017, 03:15:30 AM

Quote from: bettercrypto on January 20, 2017, 02:55:53 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 19, 2017, 02:01:48 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

you need to consult a professional my friend, any suggestion here may be worse than doing nothing for you.

but as far as i can tell you, i believe you report taxes on the profit you make from trading and if you calculate it after some time not each trade. so for example you make 20% and lose 10% and make 5% then you report total of 15% profit and pay taxes on that.

but also at the same time i think in countries like US they consider bitcoin a commodity so maybe having bitcoin may be subjected to taxes. again as i said consult a professional lawyer or something.

This is the best suggestion here in my opinion, even if altcoin is not taxed, you still need to declare your profit to the government. Especially if your government is very strict when it comes to tax implementation.

This would depend on a certain individual if he would declare or not regarding on its income but i dont think this would be implemented on alts.For bitcoin it would possible but for alts i dont think soo.Theres no tax on this but only fees anytime you convert your alts to bitcoins.

If the taxation can be implemented into bitcoin and gaining its success, then why it's can't be implemented to another altcoins which have the same system? i think that it's depend on the government on how they put their effort into the taxation of cryptocurrencies and finally could cover the whole cryptocurrencies into taxation which many people and i honestly don't like.

i think still there is no tax on bitcoin, not a single country country has imposed tax on bitcoin. but i think if any government will start imposing tax on bitcoin then other countries will also thing about it to turn bitcoin as legal currency and put tax on it, and i think then the other crypto currency would also be applicable for tax.

lionheart78

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Let us wait until Bitcoin is being taxed, then we can see altcoin will follow. As of now it is safe to say that altcoin cannot be taxed because of the scenario that government are having difficulty on imposing tax to Bitcoin. But if OP is willing to give a tax to the governmne with his profit on altcoins, no one is stopping him to do so. As suggested by pooya87 it would be better to seek the advice of the tax professionals.

tiggytomb

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 19, 2017, 02:01:48 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

you need to consult a professional my friend, any suggestion here may be worse than doing nothing for you.

but as far as i can tell you, i believe you report taxes on the profit you make from trading and if you calculate it after some time not each trade. so for example you make 20% and lose 10% and make 5% then you report total of 15% profit and pay taxes on that.

but also at the same time i think in countries like US they consider bitcoin a commodity so maybe having bitcoin may be subjected to taxes. again as i said consult a professional lawyer or something.

The best advice, consulting a professional is the safest thing to do. Especially after the whole Coinbase debacle, at some point it will come back to bite you especially in the US. As far as I have seen it is the profit you need to pay tax on.

X-ray

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Quote from: dunfida on January 20, 2017, 03:15:30 AM

Quote from: bettercrypto on January 20, 2017, 02:55:53 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 19, 2017, 02:01:48 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

you need to consult a professional my friend, any suggestion here may be worse than doing nothing for you.

but as far as i can tell you, i believe you report taxes on the profit you make from trading and if you calculate it after some time not each trade. so for example you make 20% and lose 10% and make 5% then you report total of 15% profit and pay taxes on that.

but also at the same time i think in countries like US they consider bitcoin a commodity so maybe having bitcoin may be subjected to taxes. again as i said consult a professional lawyer or something.

This is the best suggestion here in my opinion, even if altcoin is not taxed, you still need to declare your profit to the government. Especially if your government is very strict when it comes to tax implementation.

This would depend on a certain individual if he would declare or not regarding on its income but i dont think this would be implemented on alts.For bitcoin it would possible but for alts i dont think soo.Theres no tax on this but only fees anytime you convert your alts to bitcoins.

If the taxation can be implemented into bitcoin and gaining its success, then why it's can't be implemented to another altcoins which have the same system? i think that it's depend on the government on how they put their effort into the taxation of cryptocurrencies and finally could cover the whole cryptocurrencies into taxation which many people and i honestly don't like.

Viscore

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In general it's hard to tax crypto currencies and I think if the government will really pursue there plans, they will surely be having a hard time to do it. The decentralized system is the main reason why it's not tax, and the persistent of the people to use this system to mask their personal info.

One can only be tax if we will declare our real information which I don't see will happen with bitcoin and altcoins.

dunfida

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Quote from: bettercrypto on January 20, 2017, 02:55:53 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 19, 2017, 02:01:48 AM

Quote from: blacksmithtm on January 18, 2017, 09:08:54 AM

Hey

How do you calculate taxes on alt-coins bought and sold with Bitcoin? For example if i bought 10 bitcoins worth of Monero, and monero rose 10% and i decides to sell for that extra bitcoin, how does that become taxed? Furthermore if/when i decide to sell the 11 bitcoin i now have for fiat, how might that be taxed? Thank you in advance.

you need to consult a professional my friend, any suggestion here may be worse than doing nothing for you.

but as far as i can tell you, i believe you report taxes on the profit you make from trading and if you calculate it after some time not each trade. so for example you make 20% and lose 10% and make 5% then you report total of 15% profit and pay taxes on that.

but also at the same time i think in countries like US they consider bitcoin a commodity so maybe having bitcoin may be subjected to taxes. again as i said consult a professional lawyer or something.

This is the best suggestion here in my opinion, even if altcoin is not taxed, you still need to declare your profit to the government. Especially if your government is very strict when it comes to tax implementation.

This would depend on a certain individual if he would declare or not regarding on its income but i dont think this would be implemented on alts.For bitcoin it would possible but for alts i dont think soo.Theres no tax on this but only fees anytime you convert your alts to bitcoins.

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