Taxes on gambling send the right message? - page 7.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: mv1986 on July 27, 2021, 10:30:24 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on July 22, 2021, 03:51:10 PM

Quote from: paxmao on July 14, 2021, 05:37:29 PM

However, other countries simply set high taxes to these activities, which I think is a false morality, as if by paying these activities can be less questionable. (Note: I personally do not question regulated gambling).

The "sin tax" is a pretty common way to profit from behavior you would like to curb as a government. I actually think it's a good way to handle the situation. Rather than force your citizens to do thinks "underground" and risk their safety engaging in business with possibly unscrupulous characters, they just have to pay insane taxes. This also probably helps the losers a bit, as they can at least get a decent tax break for a run of bad luck. In the US, some states have some pretty crazy sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco that make it difficult for some people to engage in those activities.

But isn't there a harmful equilibrium between insanely high taxation and prohibition? I am sure there is!

From my own view, there's no harmful equilibrium between high taxation and prohibition. If there's the organization that operates the business will have quit and the last time I checked they are making huge money through the business.

Quote from: mv1986 on July 27, 2021, 10:30:24 PM

Let's assume you are broke and you want to do something the government would like you to rather not to. So the government raises insane taxes, the taxes at some point cause you to behave the same way as a prohibition would cause you to behave.

Well, the government usually set up a fair tax for the startup or new business since the business will create more job opportunity and we shouldn't compare gambling, narcotics, and alcohol tax because the owner is making huge money from it.

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Quote from: OgNasty on July 22, 2021, 03:51:10 PM

Quote from: paxmao on July 14, 2021, 05:37:29 PM

However, other countries simply set high taxes to these activities, which I think is a false morality, as if by paying these activities can be less questionable. (Note: I personally do not question regulated gambling).

The "sin tax" is a pretty common way to profit from behavior you would like to curb as a government. I actually think it's a good way to handle the situation. Rather than force your citizens to do thinks "underground" and risk their safety engaging in business with possibly unscrupulous characters, they just have to pay insane taxes. This also probably helps the losers a bit, as they can at least get a decent tax break for a run of bad luck. In the US, some states have some pretty crazy sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco that make it difficult for some people to engage in those activities.

But isn't there a harmful equilibrium between insanely high taxation and prohibition? I am sure there is!

Let's assume you are broke and you want to do something the government would like you to rather not to. So the government raises insane taxes, the taxes at some point cause you to behave the same way as a prohibition would cause you to behave. That is individual for every human being, but you could essentially apply an indifference curve to tax vs. prohibition and you would hit a point on the curve for almost every human being in the world. Maybe except for the billionaires who would never care about any tax once they are already a billionaire. Taxes aren't necessarily better than prohibition when it comes to fighting underground activities.

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 01:58:24 PM

Quote from: Silberman on July 24, 2021, 10:15:43 AM

And I agree, taxes are a necessary evil because we need a centralized government to maintain order and things like that, however governments have gotten progressively bigger during this century and we are reaching a breaking point, the taxes are very high and governments still want more as their desire is to centralize everything, but sooner or later this is going to become unsustainable and once that happens the days of big governments will be behind us, at least for a time.

Unfortunately, so far the process is going in the wrong direction. I remember seeing a chart showing the share of the government (US) in the spending of the entire country, and this share has been steadily increasing throughout the history of observations. If I'm not mistaken, it has long exceeded 50%. This is an unhealthy situation and a large imbalance that clearly does not work in favor of ordinary people.

I am aware but it seems the politicians do not understand that this is unhealthy, after all governments do not produce anything of value, they are just redistributing the wealth that already exists and they are squandering it and still are asking for more, this is simply not sustainable and as we know that which cannot last forever it wont, so it is just a matter of time until this changes, but I will admit that we could still have decades of this until things could begin to change.

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Quote from: mirakal on July 26, 2021, 07:43:22 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 26, 2021, 05:02:04 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on July 25, 2021, 10:40:50 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 01:58:24 PM

Unfortunately, so far the process is going in the wrong direction. I remember seeing a chart showing the share of the government (US) in the spending of the entire country, and this share has been steadily increasing throughout the history of observations. If I'm not mistaken, it has long exceeded 50%. This is an unhealthy situation and a large imbalance that clearly does not work in favor of ordinary people.

Big spending from the government has now become the norm, because the voters prefer such policies. In the United States, the Republican Party was known as the fiscally conservative force. But during the reign of George W Bush (2000-2008), and then again during the term of Donald Trump (2016-2020), the federal debt increased by record amounts. The same is the case with some of the other countries such as India. The parties in power are those termed as "fiscally conservative", but even they are indulging in big spending as a result of the changed attitude from the voters.

During a pandemic, this has become a common place for absolutely all countries. It is scary to imagine what will happen when these contradictions accumulate to the point where they can no longer be dampened by the printing of the next portion of fiat money. There will be a big crash, but in theory all deflationary assets should perform well.

Correct, I'm afraid of hyperinflation as the effect of the pandemic is really big, but our government is so confident of printing money so people will think that the government will handle it, what they give as financial help to the people is a debt that people will pay through the increase of taxes, and the government has no choice but to act on that so they'll be able to recover from the financial loses due to the pandemic.

Well, gambling industry should be one of the industry that will suffer huge taxes.

There must be other ways to get the money and pay back the never ending debt - yes, printing more money also known as quantitative easing is not the answer and that money will have to come from taxes.

And, it seems to me that governments set themselves on the crypto sector. As to whether they'll be able to get casinos/ exchanges to pay it is another matter.

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Quote from: mirakal on July 26, 2021, 07:43:22 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 26, 2021, 05:02:04 AM

During a pandemic, this has become a common place for absolutely all countries. It is scary to imagine what will happen when these contradictions accumulate to the point where they can no longer be dampened by the printing of the next portion of fiat money. There will be a big crash, but in theory all deflationary assets should perform well.

Correct, I'm afraid of hyperinflation as the effect of the pandemic is really big, but our government is so confident of printing money so people will think that the government will handle it, what they give as financial help to the people is a debt that people will pay through the increase of taxes, and the government has no choice but to act on that so they'll be able to recover from the financial loses due to the pandemic.

Well, gambling industry should be one of the industry that will suffer huge taxes.

The situation is much worse than just tax increases. The most unpleasant tax is inflationary, you cannot hide from it (although some people think that bitcoin can help here, but I disagree with them). I do not think that any additional taxes on the gambling business will be introduced, most likely we will see the introduction of taxes on the crypto and the entire business associated with it.

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 26, 2021, 05:02:04 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on July 25, 2021, 10:40:50 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 01:58:24 PM

Unfortunately, so far the process is going in the wrong direction. I remember seeing a chart showing the share of the government (US) in the spending of the entire country, and this share has been steadily increasing throughout the history of observations. If I'm not mistaken, it has long exceeded 50%. This is an unhealthy situation and a large imbalance that clearly does not work in favor of ordinary people.

Big spending from the government has now become the norm, because the voters prefer such policies. In the United States, the Republican Party was known as the fiscally conservative force. But during the reign of George W Bush (2000-2008), and then again during the term of Donald Trump (2016-2020), the federal debt increased by record amounts. The same is the case with some of the other countries such as India. The parties in power are those termed as "fiscally conservative", but even they are indulging in big spending as a result of the changed attitude from the voters.

During a pandemic, this has become a common place for absolutely all countries. It is scary to imagine what will happen when these contradictions accumulate to the point where they can no longer be dampened by the printing of the next portion of fiat money. There will be a big crash, but in theory all deflationary assets should perform well.

Correct, I'm afraid of hyperinflation as the effect of the pandemic is really big, but our government is so confident of printing money so people will think that the government will handle it, what they give as financial help to the people is a debt that people will pay through the increase of taxes, and the government has no choice but to act on that so they'll be able to recover from the financial loses due to the pandemic.

Well, gambling industry should be one of the industry that will suffer huge taxes.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 25, 2021, 10:40:50 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 01:58:24 PM

Unfortunately, so far the process is going in the wrong direction. I remember seeing a chart showing the share of the government (US) in the spending of the entire country, and this share has been steadily increasing throughout the history of observations. If I'm not mistaken, it has long exceeded 50%. This is an unhealthy situation and a large imbalance that clearly does not work in favor of ordinary people.

Big spending from the government has now become the norm, because the voters prefer such policies. In the United States, the Republican Party was known as the fiscally conservative force. But during the reign of George W Bush (2000-2008), and then again during the term of Donald Trump (2016-2020), the federal debt increased by record amounts. The same is the case with some of the other countries such as India. The parties in power are those termed as "fiscally conservative", but even they are indulging in big spending as a result of the changed attitude from the voters.

During a pandemic, this has become a common place for absolutely all countries. It is scary to imagine what will happen when these contradictions accumulate to the point where they can no longer be dampened by the printing of the next portion of fiat money. There will be a big crash, but in theory all deflationary assets should perform well.

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Quote from: BITCOIN4X on July 24, 2021, 11:03:28 AM

As far as I know, the imposition of high taxes on the gambling industry is a preventive measure taken by the government to reduce the number of people's addiction to gambling. But it seem that people will easily ignore the numbers and they still gamble despite the high taxes imposed on them.

That's because the eagerness is always there in these people who are now used to do gamble.

They can adjust for whatever tax implementation just like how they adjust when the cigarettes, liquors, cannabis, etc. are spiking their price. Their life is incomplete without enjoying these sin activity.

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on July 24, 2021, 11:03:28 AM

Gambling bans in Islamic countries appear to be much better at reducing gambling addiction rates than imposing high taxes.

Because that will be lead to imprisonment and a big penalty so people have no choice but to follow that's why some operate under the table.

It's against the law in those countries so it's more effective compare to implementing a high tax.

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Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 01:58:24 PM

Unfortunately, so far the process is going in the wrong direction. I remember seeing a chart showing the share of the government (US) in the spending of the entire country, and this share has been steadily increasing throughout the history of observations. If I'm not mistaken, it has long exceeded 50%. This is an unhealthy situation and a large imbalance that clearly does not work in favor of ordinary people.

Big spending from the government has now become the norm, because the voters prefer such policies. In the United States, the Republican Party was known as the fiscally conservative force. But during the reign of George W Bush (2000-2008), and then again during the term of Donald Trump (2016-2020), the federal debt increased by record amounts. The same is the case with some of the other countries such as India. The parties in power are those termed as "fiscally conservative", but even they are indulging in big spending as a result of the changed attitude from the voters.

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Quote from: Silberman on July 24, 2021, 10:15:43 AM

And I agree, taxes are a necessary evil because we need a centralized government to maintain order and things like that, however governments have gotten progressively bigger during this century and we are reaching a breaking point, the taxes are very high and governments still want more as their desire is to centralize everything, but sooner or later this is going to become unsustainable and once that happens the days of big governments will be behind us, at least for a time.

Unfortunately, so far the process is going in the wrong direction. I remember seeing a chart showing the share of the government (US) in the spending of the entire country, and this share has been steadily increasing throughout the history of observations. If I'm not mistaken, it has long exceeded 50%. This is an unhealthy situation and a large imbalance that clearly does not work in favor of ordinary people.

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Quote from: molsewid on July 24, 2021, 08:04:45 AM

I hardly believe that gambling is for rich people or those people with extra source of income only. I mean those people who have extra income that their capability to sustain their needs will not be suppressed due to gambling. But at some point there are those people who are really into gambling even without a proper source of income can still be able to place a bet or to gamble the amount of money that they have earned for the daily needs of their family and this is totally riskierthan I think.

Apart from age restrictions, I did not find any other restrictions in gambling including the socio-economic status of gamblers. Anyone is allowed to gamble as long as they have money regardless of where the money is coming from. Gambling is a personal decision for different purposes and I don't think that the poor will be banned from gambling and gambling is only for the rich.

As far as I know, the imposition of high taxes on the gambling industry is a preventive measure taken by the government to reduce the number of people's addiction to gambling. But it seem that people will easily ignore the numbers and they still gamble despite the high taxes imposed on them. Gambling bans in Islamic countries appear to be much better at reducing gambling addiction rates than imposing high taxes. I know that people in countries where gambling is prohibited can still gamble, but it is very secretive and the government does not get any profit from this gambling.

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Quote from: uneng on July 21, 2021, 01:03:16 PM

Taxation is never the solution. If you tax riches they will leave the country with their fortunes, if you tax gambling industry people will play at illegal casinos, if you tax tobacco industry people will buy it from a smuggler, if you tax income, goods and services people will buy less, impacting jobs generation negatively and consequently the whole national economy.
Taxes should be used to finance only basic needs like health and security, so they could be minimized to not harm the individuals of a society very much like we see right now. The point is that there are many people who live from these taxes (public employees) + benefits the state guarantees to them because the law forces to, so in no way they want to decrease them. So the rest of the society have to pay for it.

People nowadays think they are too smart for having the called democracy, but it works like any other system where few are on the top and most at the base of the pyramid must maintain their luxurious lives.

And I agree, taxes are a necessary evil because we need a centralized government to maintain order and things like that, however governments have gotten progressively bigger during this century and we are reaching a breaking point, the taxes are very high and governments still want more as their desire is to centralize everything, but sooner or later this is going to become unsustainable and once that happens the days of big governments will be behind us, at least for a time.

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Quote from: pawanjain on July 24, 2021, 08:23:36 AM

Quote from: molsewid on July 24, 2021, 08:04:45 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on July 23, 2021, 10:42:11 AM

The lower class would hardly afford gambling and are most of the times in survival mode. Yes few of them might still gamble but most of them are just living for their daily expenses.
But yeah those who are in middle class and below and still gamble are the ones suffering while the rich are making money.

I hardly believe that gambling is for rich people or those people with extra source of income only. I mean those people who have extra income that their capability to sustain their needs will not be suppressed due to gambling. But at some point there are those people who are really into gambling even without a proper source of income can still be able to place a bet or to gamble the amount of money that they have earned for the daily needs of their family and this is totally riskierthan I think.

Yes those are exactly the people I mentioned in my post. Most of the times these are the people in the lower class and middle class families who still gamble to earn a quick buck.
And because of such people their families become broke. The context being that such people suffer the most when high taxes are levied on gambling.
Taxes doesn't matter to the rich since they find a way to get away with it. Many times, they probably use their black money for gambling.

There are countries that ban gambling, probably that's the reason, although the government could make money through taxes, but if it will make their people addicted to gambling, that will create more problems on poverty, so it's not a win-win situation for the government.

You know, when rich gamble, they usually do it for entertainment, when poor gamble, they are gambling hoping to make money.

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Quote from: molsewid on July 24, 2021, 08:04:45 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on July 23, 2021, 10:42:11 AM

The lower class would hardly afford gambling and are most of the times in survival mode. Yes few of them might still gamble but most of them are just living for their daily expenses.
But yeah those who are in middle class and below and still gamble are the ones suffering while the rich are making money.

I hardly believe that gambling is for rich people or those people with extra source of income only. I mean those people who have extra income that their capability to sustain their needs will not be suppressed due to gambling. But at some point there are those people who are really into gambling even without a proper source of income can still be able to place a bet or to gamble the amount of money that they have earned for the daily needs of their family and this is totally riskierthan I think.

Yes those are exactly the people I mentioned in my post. Most of the times these are the people in the lower class and middle class families who still gamble to earn a quick buck.
And because of such people their families become broke. The context being that such people suffer the most when high taxes are levied on gambling.
Taxes doesn't matter to the rich since they find a way to get away with it. Many times, they probably use their black money for gambling.

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Quote from: pawanjain on July 23, 2021, 10:42:11 AM

The lower class would hardly afford gambling and are most of the times in survival mode. Yes few of them might still gamble but most of them are just living for their daily expenses.
But yeah those who are in middle class and below and still gamble are the ones suffering while the rich are making money.

I hardly believe that gambling is for rich people or those people with extra source of income only. I mean those people who have extra income that their capability to sustain their needs will not be suppressed due to gambling. But at some point there are those people who are really into gambling even without a proper source of income can still be able to place a bet or to gamble the amount of money that they have earned for the daily needs of their family and this is totally riskierthan I think.

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Quote from: goaldigger on July 22, 2021, 04:54:32 PM

Casinos are very stable business because gamblers will always find its way to gamble and we all know that the house will always win. Operating your own casinos are not that easy and it requires huge funds especially you are offering Millions of money in reward to attract more gamblers.

That tax is still small compare to the money they are making, and the purpose of tax is good as long as the regulating body uses that money into its real purpose and not to corrup it. We know that gamblers are not the one paying the tax not unless in your country you are required to pay the income you've made in gambling if you're going to declare it. Taxes in gambling didn't discourage people are playing for sure, not for me I guess.

A casino is a really stable business, but it is no less difficult than any other - the competition is very high and if you missed some trend, the flow of visitors will pass you by (and since the casino has huge fixed costs, you may even find yourself at a loss). Judging by the latest topics on the forum, the most recent trend in the casino is the service offered in connection with the legalization of cannabis.

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Quote from: Quidat on July 21, 2021, 03:59:53 PM

Quote from: YuginKadoya on July 21, 2021, 12:39:21 PM

Quote from: Silberman on July 21, 2021, 11:07:06 AM

Quote from: Ryker1 on July 18, 2021, 03:47:55 PM

Quote from: Silberman on July 18, 2021, 10:20:40 AM

You are right on the sense that taxes can be used in this way, low or no taxes to encourage something and high taxes to discourage certain behaviors, I have no doubt that many politicians see it this way which is why things like alcohol and gambling have such high taxes, but even then I have no doubts there are many politicians that do not really care and are using this as nothing more but a justification to keep raising taxes to those industries.

Well, I agree with the discouraging part and thinking that it is right. I also noticed in my country that they seem implemented a law to raise it high the taxes on the tobacco industry, we know that it is not good health and many manufacturers would suffer and becomes losing interest if they will put high taxes. The same story on gambling, if they will put a high taxes many of the owners will also discourage and do not continue their business until they will stop, now it makes sense to me why they had high taxes.

And I understand this as well because this is present all over the economy, people complain about the rich receiving a lot of tax incentives but since they are the ones with the capital and they are the ones that generate the most jobs then it makes sense that governments cater to them so they can attract investors to their countries and improve their economies, which is why the concept of trying to tax the rich to oblivion is never going to work.

The Economy of a country will surely thrive with given taxes, we can say that there will be no government at all if there is no one paying their taxes, so in doing so I guess it is ok for me to get certain taxes to increase to some product that is nonessential, and products that may cause harm to the body or doesn't really good and healthy for your body, these given taxes sometimes is OK with the owners of that gambling casino, because they know they would surely get it back with the gamblers that are playing, right now even though it is still pandemic, Casino's are open and people can surely bet and gamble to their heart's content, as long as the safety protocol is monitored, well in some countries.

Tax is the blood of the economy and its just normal that government would really imposing those taxes for that sake and this is where progress all depends on to those someone who had
sit on the peak or government itself on how they would use it well because the progress of a certain country would really depend on how its been handled.
Since gambling businesses are making big revenue then its just normal that they would really be asking for such businesses and when it comes to percentage then
it might be possibly be higher too.

Yup! I totally agree this is surely normal for the government to ask to give more sums of tax on casino's especially if that specific industry is so alive even in the state of the pandemic, I guess there is a sure income for casino owners, and yes a big revenue from them right now that there are online gambling that is very prominent and easy to access during the pandemic,

I can say this because here in the Philippines there are online cockfights that Filipinos now tend to embrace and get some profit even though it is a type of gambling there are still many Filipinos getting a lot of income amidst any risk involved in losing money, I think the government sure put a large amount of tax in said online gambling.

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Quote from: MusaMohamed on July 22, 2021, 12:42:41 PM

Quote from: pawanjain on July 22, 2021, 10:41:17 AM

It's always the middle class people who get affected the most when the governments impose any kind of taxation.

I think the middle class are not affected too much by chances join taxation. The lower class that is closely to Middle class but still lack of several more things to join the middle class, would be affected the most.

The lower class would hardly afford gambling and are most of the times in survival mode. Yes few of them might still gamble but most of them are just living for their daily expenses.
But yeah those who are in middle class and below and still gamble are the ones suffering while the rich are making money.

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 22, 2021, 04:30:12 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on July 22, 2021, 03:51:10 PM

Quote from: paxmao on July 14, 2021, 05:37:29 PM

However, other countries simply set high taxes to these activities, which I think is a false morality, as if by paying these activities can be less questionable. (Note: I personally do not question regulated gambling).

The "sin tax" is a pretty common way to profit from behavior you would like to curb as a government. I actually think it's a good way to handle the situation. Rather than force your citizens to do thinks "underground" and risk their safety engaging in business with possibly unscrupulous characters, they just have to pay insane taxes. This also probably helps the losers a bit, as they can at least get a decent tax break for a run of bad luck. In the US, some states have some pretty crazy sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco that make it difficult for some people to engage in those activities.

^ I start thinking now that this kind of business is for those people who can really afford to engage this activity and most of them are rich people and probably a high profile owner that has the capital to fight even how huge the sin tax it is as long as it can make a profit. This another proves that these kinds of businesses are for those rich people who can afford even how much the fees it is, it is not difficult for them. Probably gambling operators will still get profit because as we can see, we have still seen someone who has the same business.

Casinos are very stable business because gamblers will always find its way to gamble and we all know that the house will always win. Operating your own casinos are not that easy and it requires huge funds especially you are offering Millions of money in reward to attract more gamblers.

That tax is still small compare to the money they are making, and the purpose of tax is good as long as the regulating body uses that money into its real purpose and not to corrup it. We know that gamblers are not the one paying the tax not unless in your country you are required to pay the income you've made in gambling if you're going to declare it. Taxes in gambling didn't discourage people are playing for sure, not for me I guess.

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Quote from: OgNasty on July 22, 2021, 03:51:10 PM

Quote from: paxmao on July 14, 2021, 05:37:29 PM

However, other countries simply set high taxes to these activities, which I think is a false morality, as if by paying these activities can be less questionable. (Note: I personally do not question regulated gambling).

The "sin tax" is a pretty common way to profit from behavior you would like to curb as a government. I actually think it's a good way to handle the situation. Rather than force your citizens to do thinks "underground" and risk their safety engaging in business with possibly unscrupulous characters, they just have to pay insane taxes. This also probably helps the losers a bit, as they can at least get a decent tax break for a run of bad luck. In the US, some states have some pretty crazy sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco that make it difficult for some people to engage in those activities.

^ I start thinking now that this kind of business is for those people who can really afford to engage this activity and most of them are rich people and probably a high profile owner that has the capital to fight even how huge the sin tax it is as long as it can make a profit. This another proves that these kinds of businesses are for those rich people who can afford even how much the fees it is, it is not difficult for them. Probably gambling operators will still get profit because as we can see, we have still seen someone who has the same business.

Topic: Taxes on gambling send the right message? - page 7. (Read 3461 times)