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Topic: Technological unemployment is (almost) here - page 17. (Read 88255 times)

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
I think eventually, in the distant future, technology will reach a point where all of our basic needs (food, water, clothing, etc) can be provided at such low cost/effort by automated processes that do not require human workers... Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen ...

It could happen in as little as 5 years if it were approached systematically.  But it won't.  Even so, unemployment will rise dramatically, as it has already been doing for the past decade or so.  There is little to be gained by hiring a person.  It's much easier and more efficient to just adapt your business model to do without workers.  Employees who are clever enough to be useful are also a threat.

kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
Resource Based Economy is also a form of planned economy, but there are no "Central Soviet"!

There was a time when Animal Farm was required reading in a lot of places...
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
As soon as you are talking Singularity (with a capital "S"), the discussion is ended. When it happens, all plans fly out of the window. Whatever the rules are then, they are make by the SI, not by your Central Soviet.
About singularity you are right, but I never told I like Soviet Union's political model. Planned economy ≠ USSR. Resource Based Economy is also a form of planned economy, but there are no "Central Soviet"!
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
Kind of like how we were supposed to already have flying cars and hotels on the moon years ago, right? Sometimes you have to take all these predictions and projections with a healthy dose of common sense.
Exponential growth of the computation power have been observed since electromechanical tabulators era, so even if Moore's law will fail something other will probably take its place!

As soon as you are talking Singularity (with a capital "S"), the discussion is ended. When it happens, all plans fly out of the window. Whatever the rules are then, they are make by the SI, not by your Central Soviet.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Kind of like how we were supposed to already have flying cars and hotels on the moon years ago, right? Sometimes you have to take all these predictions and projections with a healthy dose of common sense.
Exponential growth of the computation power have been observed since electromechanical tabulators era, so even if Moore's law will fail something other will probably take its place!

Interesting chart:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/PPTMooresLawai.jpg
kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen (it won't even be in your grandchildrens' lifetimes) so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
Don't forget that technology advances by an exponential curve, so it can happen much sooner than you think!

I'm almost positive that the logistic curve has already been linked in this thread.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Kind of like how we were supposed to already have flying cars and hotels on the moon years ago, right? Sometimes you have to take all these predictions and projections with a healthy dose of common sense.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen (it won't even be in your grandchildrens' lifetimes) so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
Don't forget that technology advances by an exponential curve, so it can happen much sooner than you think!
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
I think eventually, in the distant future, technology will reach a point where all of our basic needs (food, water, clothing, etc) can be provided at such low cost/effort by automated processes that do not require human workers, and thus that a system will evolve where everyone receives a basic subsistence of goods. Then people will do "work" to earn currency or a similar form of bartering in order to purchase luxury items. That is honestly where I see things going eventually but we are talking about in hundreds of years at a bare minimum. Most of you people arguing about this frankly won't be alive to see any of this happen (it won't even be in your grandchildrens' lifetimes) so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
You want to employ people even though by definition there is no work
There always will be some work, however it can have no economic value in the capitalist system but nevertheless useful for the humanity (e.g. improvement of the environment, fundamental science, child and elderly care).
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
Do you seriously believe that you will fare any better with your ridiculous BIG campaign?
I repeat 1000th time - personally, I support full employment solution instead of BIG (unconditional income for idling)!

Oh, right, sorry, my bad. You want to employ people even though by definition there is no work - remember, the premise is tech unemployment. You should apply with Krugman. He likes this kind of Keynesianism.

legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Do you seriously believe that you will fare any better with your ridiculous BIG campaign?
I repeat 1000th time - personally, I support full employment solution instead of BIG (unconditional income for idling)!
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
It seems like it too much to ask of you to distinguish between TPTB and fine companies like Zeiss, Pratt & Whitney, Intel, Bosch, Rolex, Nikon, Ducati - after all, it is their management and their engineers you want to provide with a one way ticket to an unpleasant place.
Nobody in his sanity will expel engineers, doctors, scientists!

All I hear from you is that the CFR & friends and the fiscal-financial complex should get more, even unlimited power.
I never supported "fiscal-financial complex"! My political views are close to Resource Based Economy so you should study what it is before make such assumption!

It is entirely clear to me what your wishes are and that you are an idealist. Do you seriously think this is enough? Just look at Occupy - all they ever achieved was to be useful idiots for TPTB. Do you seriously believe that you will fare any better with your ridiculous BIG campaign? You should know the drill: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The Fabians* will simply assimilate you, if you are lucky. That is where my "assumptions" are coming from.

There exist ways to crack this system open. Satoshi pointed a way to get into the trenches. In essence: We need to walk away from it. This is the weakness.


* I call them Fabians, because that is what they are in all but name. Strictly speaking, Fabians are a brand of British Socialists only.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
It seems like it too much to ask of you to distinguish between TPTB and fine companies like Zeiss, Pratt & Whitney, Intel, Bosch, Rolex, Nikon, Ducati - after all, it is their management and their engineers you want to provide with a one way ticket to an unpleasant place.
Nobody in his sanity will expel engineers, doctors, scientists!

All I hear from you is that the CFR & friends and the fiscal-financial complex should get more, even unlimited power.
I never supported "fiscal-financial complex"! My political views are close to Resource Based Economy so you should study what it is before make such assumption!
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.
I am not telling solely about corporations, but rather about capitalist system as a whole. Economic depressions, wars, hunger etc all create the victims displayed on your image!

It seems like it too much to ask of you to distinguish between TPTB and fine companies like Zeiss, Pratt & Whitney, Intel, Bosch, Rolex, Nikon, Ducati - after all, it is their management and their engineers you want to provide with a one way ticket to an unpleasant place.

All I hear from you is that the CFR & friends and the fiscal-financial complex should get more, even unlimited power. Don't worry, being Fabians in all but name, they share your goals. I am just trying to tell you: Be careful what you wish. It may come true.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.
I am not telling solely about corporations, but rather about capitalist system as a whole. Economic depressions, wars, hunger etc all create the victims displayed on your image!
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
Collectivist ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended like this:
I can change the word "Collectivist" to "Capitalist" and post the same image! Grin

No you can't - Killing fields, Gulag, KZ are not things companies come up with. Companies want to sell. Killing your customers is bad for business.

The only company that ever killed substantial numbers of people on their own accord was AFAIK the East India Company. And that company grew so big and ugly that it turned into a government. But even they killed orders of magnitude fewer people than collectivists like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or the Holy Inquisition.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Collectivist ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended like this:
I can change the word "Collectivist" to "Capitalist" and post the same image! Grin
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
libertarian ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended up with monopolization and crony capitalism!

It is indeed a question why people are like that. Why do Western tourists in India or Thailand eat McPinkSlimeBurger (TM) when you can get 1001 excellent and healthy dishes within a 50 yards circle and for less money? If you can answer that question, you know why Anarchy has to fight uphill battles. Anyway, libertarian societies just need reforms from time to time. But how about collectivism?

Collectivist ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended like this:

legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Interesting assumption from the quoted article - libertarian ideas may look good, but every time in history they ended up with monopolization and crony capitalism!

Quote
When one truly looks at Iceland's history objectively, one can see what the real causes of Iceland's collapse was. The lack of competition and the monopolistic qualities that eventually came about when five families cornered the chieftaincy market was one reason. These five families bought the majority of chieftaincies. They controlled the court and legal system to a significant extent. This meant that there were not as many chieftains to choose from. This led to less competition, creating opportunities for increased exploitation over the free farmers, eventually leading to a revolt against the 5 families.
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