Tesla Bought 1.5 B in Bitcoins - page 11.

Karartma1

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Quote from: fillippone on February 09, 2021, 10:24:22 AM

Quote from: Dabs on February 09, 2021, 09:18:51 AM

<…>
Finally, if enough US public companies put bitcoin into their balance sheets, the last thing the government wants to do is crash it's own index. Biden will not be known as the President that banned bitcoin in the United States and caused the S&P 500 to lose 10% or 5%. Besides, they've already seen what happens when China tried to ban it, when India tried to ban it, and when Pakistan tried to ban it.

I have a feeling that the SEC doesn’t liked this too much.
While we are jokingly referring to Elon’s tweets, this is exactly the thing that irritates the regulators. And Elon Musk himself should know very well what kind of tweets irritate the SEC.

Also sec has been denying, for admittedly futile reasons, an ETF approval for many times.

Results?

A few companies have been buying bitcoins in the market, via exchanges or OTC trades. Those exact venues the SEC declared illiquid and subject to manipulation.
Many investors are trowing money away buying overpriced GBTC shares, to the only benefit of Grayscale themselves and market insiders (whales).
Many other, less sophisticated investors (the ones that would need the most protection- if we really want to adopt this paternalistic approach to investments) are flocking to proxy-investments, like MicroStrategy shares, now seen as the “common people BTC ETF”).
SEC themselves are losing touch with this market, the pressure of the inflow is too big and they will need to abide to this, sooner of later.

My guess this is putting much more pressure on them to approve an ETF, in order to have a regulated, walled , fully AML/KYC’d venue for securitised Bitcoins to be safely traded.

You are absolutely right. Do you know how I see it? Regulators didn't think thoroughly of what the conquequences of restricting smart people (and their companies) to buy and hold bitcoin could be. Right now, the genie is out there, the bottle is now broken and other companies may follow the likes of TSLA and MSTR.
Bitcoin treasuries are getting huge and you know that!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5280947

Freeesta

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Well .... Let's wait for the regulatory documents on handling cryptocurrency. Perhaps they are not enough for such large businessmen to be interested in cryptocurrency. Tesla bravo!

fillippone

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Quote from: Dabs on February 09, 2021, 09:18:51 AM

<…>
Finally, if enough US public companies put bitcoin into their balance sheets, the last thing the government wants to do is crash it's own index. Biden will not be known as the President that banned bitcoin in the United States and caused the S&P 500 to lose 10% or 5%. Besides, they've already seen what happens when China tried to ban it, when India tried to ban it, and when Pakistan tried to ban it.

I have a feeling that the SEC doesn’t liked this too much.
While we are jokingly referring to Elon’s tweets, this is exactly the thing that irritates the regulators. And Elon Musk himself should know very well what kind of tweets irritate the SEC.

Also sec has been denying, for admittedly futile reasons, an ETF approval for many times.

Results?

A few companies have been buying bitcoins in the market, via exchanges or OTC trades. Those exact venues the SEC declared illiquid and subject to manipulation.
Many investors are trowing money away buying overpriced GBTC shares, to the only benefit of Grayscale themselves and market insiders (whales).
Many other, less sophisticated investors (the ones that would need the most protection- if we really want to adopt this paternalistic approach to investments) are flocking to proxy-investments, like MicroStrategy shares, now seen as the “common people BTC ETF”).
SEC themselves are losing touch with this market, the pressure of the inflow is too big and they will need to abide to this, sooner of later.

My guess this is putting much more pressure on them to approve an ETF, in order to have a regulated, walled , fully AML/KYC’d venue for securitised Bitcoins to be safely traded.

semobo

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Elon Musk proved that he is kind of futuristic thinker and he already proved with Tesla and trying with SpaceX. Now there is no wonder that he is moving towards decentralization and also he is having good profits when he moves with so much of influence he got in the social media and other rich people in the world.

baeva

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Quote from: Dabs on February 09, 2021, 09:18:51 AM

TSLA is a public company. Their entire board of directors would have had to unanimously agree to buying bitcoin, not just Elon alone. They probably had private discussions with MicroStrategy on how to do all this as that was the whole point of the conference and sharing the playbook on how it was to be done.

So, shareholders of TSLA, if they are disappointed, they can always sell, but that is unlikely to happen.

I think TSLA, just like MSTR, is getting bitcoin with the long term view in mind, not for speculating. They will buy and HODL, for at least 5 years. They may sell later, or more likely, is they will borrow against it if they need cash.

Finally, if enough US public companies put bitcoin into their balance sheets, the last thing the government wants to do is crash it's own index. Biden will not be known as the President that banned bitcoin in the United States and caused the S&P 500 to lose 10% or 5%. Besides, they've already seen what happens when China tried to ban it, when India tried to ban it, and when Pakistan tried to ban it.

The problem this public company is precisely that Elon Musk himself is at the head, who just needs to be told something about cryptocurrency, and it will take off. I'm not sure if the company actually bought such a huge amount of bitcoins. Do you understand that all the company's money is their stock? So they sold their shares and bought bitcoins or simply took money from people who bought these shares from them. In fact, a very risky step

baeva

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Quote from: Darker45 on February 08, 2021, 09:55:15 PM

Much WOW, it finally happens! Pun intended. Wink

All along, I was thinking Elon is no dead serious on Bitcoin. I thought he was just playing it out with all those Bitcoin memes, Bitcoin Twitter profile, and so forth. I have to admit I even thought Elon was somehow annoyed with all those Bitcoin shills bugging him to get into Bitcoin. I asked myself, why should Elon bother about Bitcoin when what he's been happily doing all this time is making him the richest man on earth?

Well, I was wrong and am very happy to admit it. Mars, here we come! Cheesy

You've probably heard that Elon is fiercely supportive of the idea of a cryptocurrency on another planet, right? When Mars is colonized, the cryptocurrency will be used there as the main currency, most likely, doge, since he himself hinted at this more than once. And now he just begins to manipulate the market, I will not name it otherwise, because he no longer needs profit, he has too much money, which will be enough for the rest of his life)

Dabs

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The Concierge of Crypto

TSLA is a public company. Their entire board of directors would have had to unanimously agree to buying bitcoin, not just Elon alone. They probably had private discussions with MicroStrategy on how to do all this as that was the whole point of the conference and sharing the playbook on how it was to be done.

So, shareholders of TSLA, if they are disappointed, they can always sell, but that is unlikely to happen.

I think TSLA, just like MSTR, is getting bitcoin with the long term view in mind, not for speculating. They will buy and HODL, for at least 5 years. They may sell later, or more likely, is they will borrow against it if they need cash.

Finally, if enough US public companies put bitcoin into their balance sheets, the last thing the government wants to do is crash it's own index. Biden will not be known as the President that banned bitcoin in the United States and caused the S&P 500 to lose 10% or 5%. Besides, they've already seen what happens when China tried to ban it, when India tried to ban it, and when Pakistan tried to ban it.

AicecreaME

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No matter what other people will say to Elon Musk decision, it is crystal clear that this kind of action fuels up Bitcoin to pump again and make another All Time High. Others might say that he did a very terrible decision but I'm sure they already made a decent profit in just a short period amount of time, and I'm sure they would not sell their Bitcoin right away just because its price enter the Bearish Market again.

We just have to support each other, we have to keep the fire bigger and bigger until all of the people around the world will finally realize how amazing and important Bitcoin is.

barbara44

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Quote from: Obito on February 08, 2021, 11:54:27 PM

Last I checked it was around the 42k-43k range but this current prices are out of this world, 46k is a big number and to think that we finally broke the 40k resistance meant that a 50k will be a breeze to pass by or I could be wrong and that buy is a temporary increase or better yet, the 60k barrier is another easy resistance to break from.

yeah, it is crazy and Elon Musk with his twitter also pumped Dogecoins to quite a hilarious value because there is nothing much going on with dogecoin and the price is surging towards sky just because the poll Elon started on twitter where he said dogecoin to the moon!

People are highly influenced and buying dogecoin which is crazy and I am not entirely sure why Elon musk is doing all this because as you can see many replies under his tweets are saying "don't do these things, poor people will buy under your influence and then suffer" which I sort of agree because once the market dumps which it has to at some point, for dogecoins, then everyone who bought will suffer.

Lucius

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Quote from: fillippone on February 08, 2021, 10:06:00 AM

I think this news is by far the most important news in a long time, by far more important than PayPal. (I don't know if your "after Paypal" is meant on a chronological or importance order).
This is because not the effect on other CFO is they cannot ignore anymore the BTC option for their investment. One thing is a semi-obscure MicroStrategy share. Now we are talking about Tesla, one of the most knows brand in the world.

First of all, I was thinking about the importance in terms of general media coverage - because PayPal and Tesla sell news much better than, say, MicroStrategy or Grayscale - and we saw the effect literally in the first minutes after the news was published. Given Tesla’s reputation and the fact that Musk has over 40 million followers on Twitter this news spread with incredible speed and resulted in a price increase of 20% in the last 24 hours.

Now it will be interesting to see how long this positive wave will last, because probably like all other positive news it will weaken at some point - which means we can expect a price correction, what do you think about that?

Quote from: theymos on February 08, 2021, 03:34:12 PM

It's also always possible that BTC will crash. In particular, the higher the price gets, the more likely it is that governments see BTC as a high-priority threat that they need to take out of the picture. It's not easy to make Bitcoin technically unusable, but there are probably actions that the Biden administration could unilaterally take which would crash BTC to sub-$5k, for example

Anyone who understands how powerful the state's mechanisms are (especially when it comes to the US) must keep in mind that the world's leading power will not allow Bitcoin to threaten the US dollar in any way - which is regardless of who is in power has always been and will be a political constant. I always remember Congressman Brad Sherman who said during the Libra debate that “Bitcoin is a small baby here.", which during 2019 did not seem so far from the truth.

An even more significant statement by the former U.S. Treasury Secretary Mnuchin came during 2020 when he stated ‘We want a stable dollar,’ says U.S. Treasury Secretary Mnuchin: ‘It is the reserve currency of the world and we’re going to protect that’.

longyenthanh

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Quote from: ashmodeus on February 09, 2021, 05:17:30 AM

hello whale , welcome to crypto industry , a big pleasure to have you in. by the way, i am a bit confused about what elon trying to do , first , he just tweet about doge, then he added #bitcoin on his twitter account, then he removes it , adding more meme for doge , then finally buying bitcoin by tesla company. well whatever is that, he just do it .

I think that his earlier behavior, i.e. tweets about DOGE, was something like testing its capabilities on the cryptocurrency market. I think what happened to DOGE's price after his tweets gave a lot of information to his analysts. They will definitely use its potential in the future to play with BTC price.

ashmodeus

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hello whale , welcome to crypto industry , a big pleasure to have you in. by the way, i am a bit confused about what elon trying to do , first , he just tweet about doge, then he added #bitcoin on his twitter account, then he removes it , adding more meme for doge , then finally buying bitcoin by tesla company. well whatever is that, he just do it .

acquafredda

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Quote from: fillippone on February 08, 2021, 05:42:51 PM

Quote from: theymos on February 08, 2021, 03:34:12 PM

<...>
if I was a Tesla shareholder, I would be annoyed.
<...>

Similarly, the potential negative effect of the volatility of BTC price fluctuation on the TSLA shares would be negligible. First of all because even if Bitcoin had a surge in volatility, this would affect only the 0.2% of the market capitalisation, secondly because TSLA already exhibits higher volatility than bitcoin.

Great and intriguing exchange between you guys. I share some of theymos concerns and referring to what you specifically wrote above, I would not be so sure that any potential negative effect might be that small. We cannot simply imagine any possible negative effects as this is the first time on history that bitcoin reaches this recognition and gets used this way.
Closing, if I was a Tesla shareholder I would be a bit annoyed too knowing that now my stocks (already very volatile) are linked to another asset which is also quite volatile.
We are seeing history unfolding right before our eyes, and for those of us who were here a while ago seeing these things come true it is like daydreaming!

muenze

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Coinmarketcap showing price of Tesla Model 3

It will greatly strenghten Teslas brand to be associated with Bitcoin.

amishmanish

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Amazing to read. So its a pretty easy 50K from here.

While it may not be seen as a very CEO'sque move, Elon hasn't really been known for that. The "People have spoken" twitter update for DOGE is an example. He is a pretty intelligent man though and it is hard to imagine that this is just a meme-moment for him.

The report discloses investment in Bitcoin under the heading " Risks to our operations". It has also been established there that they will at some point start accepting bitcoin payments. Imagine a Tesla with an onboard computer for DOGE mining and using that as streaming payments on the Tesla console or for supercharging and battery swaps.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: fillippone on February 08, 2021, 05:42:51 PM

TSLA has 20 billion in cash&equivalent. This is not much for an 820 billion company. AAPL, for example, a 2.3 trillion company, almost 4 times bigger, has 195 Billion in cash&equivalent instruments, almost 10 times more. Basically, TSLA is already, or various reasons, but mainly for the early stage of their business cycle, a cash-strapped company. The objective of a good treasurer is to optimise this amount, having in mind the future cash flows of the company: finance for this kind of companies should always be ancillary to the core operations of the firm.

For example, this is something I am not sure happened with Microstrategy, that issued a subordinated bond only to invest in Bitcoin the proceed of such sale.

I think that for TSLA, investing 1.5billions is really the minimum amount to be considered as an investment. Today TSLA gained 1.31%. This equates to 7 billions of dollar growth in market capitalisation. This is an amount 8 times bigger than the potential loss of bitcoin going to zero and they holding the whole investment.

Tesla is a company that is going through a period of growth. These types of companies need to spend a lot of cash in order to finance capital expenditures, such as factories that cost a lot of money today but will remain productive for decades. These types of companies also tend to need to make adjustments to their operating model in order to be profitable on an operating basis.

My guess is that Tesla plans on trying to eventually transact business with its suppliers in bitcoin. This means Tesla could receive payment for its cars in bitcoin and in turn pay some of its suppliers in bitcoin. if this were to happen, this would be huge for bitcoin adoption, as it would be a major company that is conducting business on both the product and supply side in bitcoin. Today, most companies that accept bitcoin as payment will either immediately convert any bitcoin they receive to fiat or will keep a portion of any bitcoin they receive as a speculative investment.

YinShuiSiYuan

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Quote from: Obito on February 09, 2021, 01:02:28 AM

Quote from: YinShuiSiYuan on February 09, 2021, 12:28:36 AM

Quote from: Obito on February 08, 2021, 11:54:27 PM

~snip

After such information, all mainstream media will start talking about Bitcoin. In such a situation, I think the next resistance is at $100k rather than $60k. Wink

I hope that what you are saying is what is going to really happen but there are a lot of hurdles to pass before the 100k is reached, Tesla's 1.5 billion USD is limited and the only thing that could make this 100k resistance happen is when people will follow Elon's lead and buy their own bitcoin.

Do not worry. Everyone knows that Elon is a visionary and if anyone in this world knows how to invest in new technologies, it is him. He will be followed by other giant companies .. I am waiting for Apple as the next investor Wink

Obito

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Quote from: YinShuiSiYuan on February 09, 2021, 12:28:36 AM

Quote from: Obito on February 08, 2021, 11:54:27 PM

~snip

After such information, all mainstream media will start talking about Bitcoin. In such a situation, I think the next resistance is at $100k rather than $60k. Wink

I hope that what you are saying is what is going to really happen but there are a lot of hurdles to pass before the 100k is reached, Tesla's 1.5 billion USD is limited and the only thing that could make this 100k resistance happen is when people will follow Elon's lead and buy their own bitcoin.

YinShuiSiYuan

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Quote from: Obito on February 08, 2021, 11:54:27 PM

Last I checked it was around the 42k-43k range but this current prices are out of this world, 46k is a big number and to think that we finally broke the 40k resistance meant that a 50k will be a breeze to pass by or I could be wrong and that buy is a temporary increase or better yet, the 60k barrier is another easy resistance to break from.

After such information, all mainstream media will start talking about Bitcoin. In such a situation, I think the next resistance is at $100k rather than $60k. Wink

Obito

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Last I checked it was around the 42k-43k range but this current prices are out of this world, 46k is a big number and to think that we finally broke the 40k resistance meant that a 50k will be a breeze to pass by or I could be wrong and that buy is a temporary increase or better yet, the 60k barrier is another easy resistance to break from.

Topic: Tesla Bought 1.5 B in Bitcoins - page 11. (Read 2732 times)