Texts exchanged by Binance CEO and Sam Bankman-Fried as FTX collapsed

Cryptock

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Quote from: rby on December 23, 2022, 02:49:03 AM

Quote from: NotATether on December 23, 2022, 12:34:28 AM

Quote from: Zlantann on December 18, 2022, 09:43:18 PM

It is sometime very difficult to ignore some of these news because everyday more interesting events would be exposed. And the truth is that there are still more secrets to reveal.
It is the behavior of drowning men to always want to bring down others. Maybe SBF wanted to collapse the system because Zhao backed out of the agreement to bail FTX. I cannot vouch that Binance is trustworthy but I can perceive that this exchange company has a better management structure than most crypto related firms. But the truth still remans these centralized exchanges can never be trusted.

I've said this before (on Medium), and I'll say this again: FTX would've gone down whther Binance bought it out or not.

I mean, imagine if Binance did buy FTX. How would FTX possibly be saved at that point? Their FTT token was beyond destroyed anyway, so FTX would never recover its initial valuation. Binance would only be inheriting liabilities that would bring it down (actually I'm wrong, it would bring down both of them).

I do not trust CZ's Binance because it is not right to trust an exchange to a high degree . But I also believe that Binance has a strong management crew and apart from that CZ is very smart with money and idea.
He would have bailed FTX but he foresee something that made him backout which could be what NotATether said.

Binance is a good app - but I don't keep my money there for long.
There are investigation going on in our country on Bianance - so you never know when the both companies collapse.

rby

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Quote from: NotATether on December 23, 2022, 12:34:28 AM

Quote from: Zlantann on December 18, 2022, 09:43:18 PM

It is sometime very difficult to ignore some of these news because everyday more interesting events would be exposed. And the truth is that there are still more secrets to reveal.
It is the behavior of drowning men to always want to bring down others. Maybe SBF wanted to collapse the system because Zhao backed out of the agreement to bail FTX. I cannot vouch that Binance is trustworthy but I can perceive that this exchange company has a better management structure than most crypto related firms. But the truth still remans these centralized exchanges can never be trusted.

I've said this before (on Medium), and I'll say this again: FTX would've gone down whther Binance bought it out or not.

I mean, imagine if Binance did buy FTX. How would FTX possibly be saved at that point? Their FTT token was beyond destroyed anyway, so FTX would never recover its initial valuation. Binance would only be inheriting liabilities that would bring it down (actually I'm wrong, it would bring down both of them).

I do not trust CZ's Binance because it is not right to trust an exchange to a high degree . But I also believe that Binance has a strong management crew and apart from that CZ is very smart with money and idea.
He would have bailed FTX but he foresee something that made him backout which could be what NotATether said.

NotATether

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Quote from: Zlantann on December 18, 2022, 09:43:18 PM

It is sometime very difficult to ignore some of these news because everyday more interesting events would be exposed. And the truth is that there are still more secrets to reveal.
It is the behavior of drowning men to always want to bring down others. Maybe SBF wanted to collapse the system because Zhao backed out of the agreement to bail FTX. I cannot vouch that Binance is trustworthy but I can perceive that this exchange company has a better management structure than most crypto related firms. But the truth still remans these centralized exchanges can never be trusted.

I've said this before (on Medium), and I'll say this again: FTX would've gone down whther Binance bought it out or not.

I mean, imagine if Binance did buy FTX. How would FTX possibly be saved at that point? Their FTT token was beyond destroyed anyway, so FTX would never recover its initial valuation. Binance would only be inheriting liabilities that would bring it down (actually I'm wrong, it would bring down both of them).

milewilda

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Quote from: Johnyz on December 21, 2022, 04:20:29 PM

Quote from: dansus021 on December 21, 2022, 12:42:04 AM

so binance know that ftx is doing wrong before it collapse?

As they sell ahead of the crash, probably yes and that could be more alarming to know that these two exchanges had their conversation and even before the crash they seems to be more good to each other. If Binance already knows about those anomaly and yet didn’t do anything to correct it, I’m pretty sure SBF is the one leaking this and trying to ruin the reputation of Binance as well, probably FTX is one of those who are spreading FUD against Binance.

Truth or just FUD then it would be eventually know, these things wont leak out if there's something happened before that crash of FTX. If Binance did able to know on what would gonna happen then it does
really shows on how shady Binance is and did not able to correct it which the thing you do said was right. Dont know if SBF is really just having the intention on making things more messy by saying up
these things and just to stir up the situation even more.In overall it is really just making the market to be more messy and bring out some Fuds and negative sentiments which
do really affect out our minds.

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Quote from: dansus021 on December 21, 2022, 12:42:04 AM

so binance know that ftx is doing wrong before it collapse?

As they sell ahead of the crash, probably yes and that could be more alarming to know that these two exchanges had their conversation and even before the crash they seems to be more good to each other. If Binance already knows about those anomaly and yet didn’t do anything to correct it, I’m pretty sure SBF is the one leaking this and trying to ruin the reputation of Binance as well, probably FTX is one of those who are spreading FUD against Binance.

o48o

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Quote from: franky1 on December 15, 2022, 07:16:33 PM

one swap of $250k wont do damage as a single trade

but negative arbitrage that same $250k at a 0.1% loss per round means you can generate thousands of arbitrage rounds of millions in volume.

EG
1. $250k for 249,750sc
1. 249,750sc $249.5k
repeat thousand times

Yeah but did he do anything like that or is that speculation? I didn't see anything from the text hinting that he was. Even CZ admitted that what sam was doing wouldn't crash USDT but it could "cause problems".
Also if he did, it would be included in charges as blatant market manipulation. Or trying it (if that's a crime).

coupable

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Quote from: dansus021 on December 21, 2022, 12:42:04 AM

so binance know that ftx is doing wrong before it collapse?

If this is true, then the platform's warning is questionable, otherwise why was the fatal blow from the work of Binance, which rushed to sell its savings from the platform's assets at a low price, which caused the accelerated collapse of the platform.
Binance is a competitive company, and it cannot be believed that it is keen on the safety of its competitors or even users of other platforms.

Flexystar

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Hmm, when you know you are doing wrong thing and it can have consequences but still you go further and keep doing it until it fails. That’s what happening here. Greed is perfect player here whose playing since the beginning of these exchanges. We should have stopped at peer to peer system and keep following the same till date but no! They had to jump and they had to invent the trading and use bitcoin as medium to generate more money. Imagine if the peer to peer approach was still in place nobody would have faced meltdown to such high extent.

dansus021

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Quote from: dothebeats on December 21, 2022, 04:48:58 AM

For damn sure they do, and perhaps CZ didn't think that it will get out of hand until it was too late. If Binance never knew of what SBF and Alameda is up to, they will never offer to buy FTX in the first place, hence why it also resulted into them backing out of the sale - because they learned of the severity of the situation and figured they will never get something positive out of it.

is very crazy then, but to be honest CZ first who talk about FTX at the first time he said that Binance will sell FTT tokens before ftx collapsed, and also said that the exchange was supposed to not use their token as collateral

Quote from: dothebeats on December 21, 2022, 04:48:58 AM

It's not uncommon for business execs to know what each one is up to, especially in industries wherein they are the only ones controlling everything.

I know some conspiracy theories about a person or a group who take control of everything like company 'BlackRock' who almost have stock in every major companies

dothebeats

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Quote from: dansus021 on December 21, 2022, 12:42:04 AM

so binance know that ftx is doing wrong before it collapse?

For damn sure they do, and perhaps CZ didn't think that it will get out of hand until it was too late. If Binance never knew of what SBF and Alameda is up to, they will never offer to buy FTX in the first place, hence why it also resulted into them backing out of the sale - because they learned of the severity of the situation and figured they will never get something positive out of it.

It's not uncommon for business execs to know what each one is up to, especially in industries wherein they are the only ones controlling everything.

dansus021

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so binance know that ftx is doing wrong before it collapse?

Fortify

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Quote from: Hydrogen on December 15, 2022, 05:59:07 PM

Supposedly, the above text exchange between SBF and Changpeng Zhao of binance, was collected and published by the new york times.

When COVID hit, I read hundreds, if not thousands, of different articles and watched what documentaries I could find published on the topic. To try to get a better idea of what was happening.

With SBF and the FTX crash, I'm doing my best to completely ignore everything about it. But it seems, I randomly stumble across many published pieces like the above which are difficult to believe are real.

It's fascinating to see how these supposedly super intelligent and super rich people really are clueless when things start to run away from them. It just shows you how fragile the crypto markets really are if the owner of one of the biggest exchanges in the world is concerned about FTX selling a batch of $250k in tether tokens. You can tell it was a rather fractious and loose friendship, but they have probably had a few wild nights partying together in the past. I found it really interesting to see all the messages that were exposed from Elon Musk within this batch of conversations, because he also talks very loosely about business deals and definitely does not have any sort of master plan, it's all so reactionary.

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I am quite surprised how these people behind big businesses chat to each other in such casual way.

Anyways, I do not know what was up with CZ about those USDT SBF was moving around. My personal take is that the Binance CEO (aware of the disaster magnitude) was afraid of SBF making the situation worse for both himself and the market in general, to the point of weakening the position of Binance itself.

He had little to lose, so there was the possibility he wanted to take as many people as possible down with him, in CZ's mind.

It is that or Tether is actually such a weak stable coin that 250k$ movements could start an uncontrolled death spiral. Roll Eyes

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Meh texts. Seen way more callous communicatives between rival execs in other industries. Seen crypto CEOs smirk chats to each other, but really no different from other autocratic structures... Even in non profits.

Only difference I would say here is they do seem to be able to make financial decisions unilaterally. A normal company or corporate structure at the most basic has multiple signoffs for various levels.

Precisely so one guy can't gamble company funds on arbitrary bets just because he has a sparkle in his eye.

Gianluca95

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Reputation first.

Simply I think that it isn't cool to give to single man all of this power in the entire market, it isn't fair. Considering what happened (first Mt.gox, then see Bitfinex fact, now FTX, and there could be also other examples), today

I've heard that some mexican drug dealer also has used binance for washtrading purpose. So, the best things to do is always to keep your money safe in your wallet and avoid to give to this organization this power.

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Quote from: franky1 on December 18, 2022, 10:37:57 PM

i bet she is singing like a canary in a coal mine, chirping many things to get an immunity deal while outing SBF's bad deeds

In coal mines, canaries sang as a warning--so your analogy here is unfortunately very wrong. Too bad she didn't give any warning that things were going kablooey at FTX or Alameda, but I'm guessing she was clueless. But I've no doubt you're correct that she's talking to authorities with a promise of some kind of immunity.

OP, I don't know how important these texts are in the grand scheme of things. They do make it look like it was amateur hour at FTX at least, and probably Binance as well. But stuff like this comes out after every big financial disaster--the only difference with these texts is that they have to do with the crypto industry.

Eh. We'll see. The whole story hasn't been told yet and it's still relatively early on in the process of investigation, prosecution, and forthcoming regulation and whatnot.

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It's interesting how they talk to each other and how several top executives knew about the fall of FTX before it happened, it seems. I wonder if knowing about the crime (via group chat) and not reporting it to law enforcement amounts to being an accomplice. Could people from this chat also face criminal investigation?
I didn't quite grasp why Bankman-Fried wanted to decrease the value of Tether, but since he allegedly tried, it probably means others can try as well, and who knows, maybe one day someone will succeed. Tether is very stable, but it might also be much more fragile than many people think it is. It's not unthinkable that it would collapse, not any more unthinkable that a major exchange would collapse, and that has already happened.

franky1

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Quote from: adaseb on December 19, 2022, 12:07:57 AM

Honestly who knows if these texts are even real? It seemed believable up until the $250K being able to depeg tether.

Even if this was on a weekend, it is not enough to depeg tether and CZ knows this. Which leads me to believe this was just an article created to get clicks for the NYT.

you would be surprised how much you can affect a price via arbitrage on limited funds

A. usdt->$usd 1:0.9999
B. $usd ->usdc 0.9999:0.9999
C. usdc->usdt 0.9999:0.9999
A. usdt->$usd 0.9999:0.9998

you then arbitrage(a-b-c) and then uses same funds again to repeat 1000 times

$250k can generate (until you have nothing left) over $190m volume

which is why it was not a single order of $250k. but a arbitrage bot trading fast over 1000 cycles. which is why he said "stop!"

adaseb

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Honestly who knows if these texts are even real? It seemed believable up until the $250K being able to depeg tether.

Even if this was on a weekend, it is not enough to depeg tether and CZ knows this. Which leads me to believe this was just an article created to get clicks for the NYT.

franky1

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i think regulators and prosecutors are this week more interested in what alameda 'queen'(SBF ex-gf) caroline ellison has to say, because she is currently in NYC, free as a bird..
i bet she is singing like a canary in a coal mine, chirping many things to get an immunity deal while outing SBF's bad deeds

Topic: Texts exchanged by Binance CEO and Sam Bankman-Fried as FTX collapsed (Read 437 times)