That's the end of the altcoins glory?

ehoffman

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Wow, so many posts... I think it has diverged slightly from my OP Cheesy

What I meant was just to notice that it's no longer more profitable to mine PPC, TRC, etc. and the exchange rates continue to go down. All those alt-coins had a few days bubble, and it was fun to mine PPC the last few days and see 200% return compared to BTC, but that was yesterday's ride. Apart maybe from LTC that is still kicking (although at lower exchange rate that it used to), and the fact that it's the GPU miners logical path in the following months, the other altcoins are just getting slowly back to the attic. Roll Eyes

Maybe people will just forget about them, like an old toy that's getting dust under the pile at the bottom of the toy box...

Sunny King

legendary

Activity: 1205

Merit: 1010

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 05:09:45 PM

- how does POW and POS interact? Is POW denial by POS miners effective?
- ...

To deny POW blocks, after checkpointing is weakened, a 20% collusion of stake minters can easily reject pow blocks about 20% of the time. To achieve much higher denial rate it would likely need to fight against honest stake minters.

Jutarul

donator

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 05:01:03 PM

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 04:51:57 PM

Good. Then you may want to get involved with creating an open source documentation of ppcoin. It is badly needed and Sunny seems to have a lack of time/motivation to do it.

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

I suppose, first thing to do is to spawn a separate thread to organize this.
The content should consist of a mathematical description of the POS scheme and ideally should lead to a better understanding between stake, stake generation power, block chain reorganizations and attack vectors.

Here are some specific questions:
- how much stake is needed to protect the chain?
- what is the ideal granularity?
- which POS sampling strategy is most successful in terms of consecutive blocks? (May need game theory -> tournament)
- how does POW and POS interact? Is POW denial by POS miners effective?
- ...

efx

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Maybe a little less copy/paste whitepaper, too.

He should relaunch with scrypt and have it decentralized from the start if he can actually get PoS to function securely.

Or if he doesn't..someone else will. Damn it, here comes another alt Sad

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: tacotime on March 17, 2013, 05:02:33 PM

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 05:01:03 PM

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

Go through Sunny King's C++ code and figure out what the christ is going on in it. It's poorly commented and difficult to read through.

This only adds to the suspicion that his code is still broken.

No comments, no documentation, no public discussion of development.

Sunny King obviously has something to hide. Judging from his track record this is true. He was outted by Jutarul in December 2012 about the POS exploit in his code.

mr_random

legendary

Activity: 1344

Merit: 1001

Quote from: tacotime on March 17, 2013, 05:02:33 PM

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 05:01:03 PM

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

Go through Sunny King's C++ code and figure out what the christ is going on in it. It's poorly commented and difficult to read through.

I'm not a programmer, I'm a mathematician...

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 05:01:03 PM

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

Go through Sunny King's C++ code and figure out what the christ is going on in it. It's poorly commented and difficult to read through.

mr_random

legendary

Activity: 1344

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 04:51:57 PM

Good. Then you may want to get involved with creating an open source documentation of ppcoin. It is badly needed and Sunny seems to have a lack of time/motivation to do it.

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

phantastisch

legendary

Activity: 2271

Merit: 1363

No , it will certainly not be the end of all altcoins.

But it is funny to see all this i-am-an-early-adopter-in-(insertaltcoin)-have-thousands-of-them-and-will-be-rich-like-the-bitcoiners come to their defense.

And our favorite trolls as usual. Cheesy

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: Simran on March 17, 2013, 02:49:56 PM

Bitcoin faggits are just made cause they can't find the right config to mine sCrypt with their GPU's or FPGA's :trlf:
sCrypt dun like you!

You know Simran, I think we all think you are a valuable member of the altcommunity, but I will be the first to say it's not cool to use a homosexual slur here. I mean, we are all here because we think Bitcoin and crypto in general is going to be a big part of some better, more fair future. I can't imagine you would really want homophobia to come with us to that future as well. We're all better then that.

efx

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: Wekkel on March 17, 2013, 04:35:46 PM

With all this competition in posts, how could Alt coins be at the end of their glory ??

Wink

Few points need addressing. I see some of you have been here for a long time and learned very little.

sha256 is far more easily abused and you kids know this. I will trade perceived 'efficiency' for not being coerced into pre-ordering hardware from people with felonies and less than steller PR representatives.

If you actually look at the production costs and wasted resources, you would understand there's more to efficiency than pure power costs.

Combine that with substantial government sha256 hashpower, the highly limited transaction overhead and the recent fork...nope. Oh yeah, it's also really slow. That's the least of the disadvantages...

Bitcoin is technology and technology evolves. The first steps have already been taken. I really shouldn't have to explain.

Jutarul

donator

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 04:20:59 PM

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 03:55:38 PM

Please get involved.

I offer mathematical expertise if it is needed

Good. Then you may want to get involved with creating an open source documentation of ppcoin. It is badly needed and Sunny seems to have a lack of time/motivation to do it.

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 04:20:59 PM

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 03:55:38 PM

Another positive aspect is that Sunny decided early on to drop micro-transactions.

What do you mean exactly by dropping micro-transactions?

The term micro-transactions is a bit fuzzy and is also a bit misused here. What is meant is rather "uneconomical" transaction, which can be quantified by: output value < network fee.
While it is still possible that the chain may have an average transaction fee to implement QoS features (to discriminate which transactions are worthwhile processing), and allows transactions to be incorporated with "output value"<"average fee", it is impossible to incorporate transactions with a net output smaller than the minimal fee (0.01PPC), something which is principally possible with bitcoin.

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 02:26:10 PM

Litecoin will prosper. There's not much room for another one, unless it's something innovative like PPCoin. Cheap knockoffs like TRC or NVC are ultimately destined for the scrapheap.

Now where did I put that "haters gonna hate" gif?......

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: markm on March 17, 2013, 04:32:54 PM

Quote from: smoothie on March 17, 2013, 03:25:24 PM

Right now people bitcoin GPU miners can switch to mining litecoin. If they upgrade to ASICs for bitcoin, they will no longer be able to switch to Litecoin when it is more profitable to mine. Bitcoin miners will be locked into only mining bitcoins, namecoins, devcoins, groupcoins, ixcoins, i0coins, coiledcoins, and maybe even some of the trickier ones such as GeistGeld, all at once using merged mining with ASICs.

Litecoin miners (GPU miners) will mine Litecoin most likely because ASICs will make bitcoin mining with GPUs UNPROFITABLE.

Fixed That For You.

-MarkM-

Thanks Mark. I forgot about that.

Point being...they will be locked into mining those coins.

This is what separates Litecoin from the rest.

Wekkel

legendary

Activity: 3108

Merit: 1531

yes

With all this competition in posts, how could Alt coins be at the end of their glory ??

Wink

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

Quote from: smoothie on March 17, 2013, 03:25:24 PM

Right now people bitcoin GPU miners can switch to mining litecoin. If they upgrade to ASICs for bitcoin, they will no longer be able to switch to Litecoin when it is more profitable to mine. Bitcoin miners will be locked into only mining bitcoins, namecoins, devcoins, groupcoins, ixcoins, i0coins, coiledcoins, and maybe even some of the trickier ones such as GeistGeld, all at once using merged mining with ASICs.

Litecoin miners (GPU miners) will mine Litecoin most likely because ASICs will make bitcoin mining with GPUs UNPROFITABLE.

Fixed That For You.

-MarkM-

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 04:20:59 PM

I created my profile on February 25th, 2013 so don't listen to what I have to say as facts, only ignorance. Thanks Grin

okay

mr_random

legendary

Activity: 1344

Merit: 1001

Smoothie famous troll on this forum Cheesy

No-one listens to him lol.

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 03:55:38 PM

Please get involved. Don't just try to sit back and watch.
The tournament is an attempt to leverage the brain power on this forum and within the ppcoin community.

I offer mathematical expertise if it is needed (i've also written to Sunny with this offer). I have two degrees in math, both with First Class Honours. But I am lacking in the computer science department. If something needs mathematically proving and can be broken down in terms for a non-computer person to understand I can contribute to that.

Quote from: Jutarul on March 17, 2013, 03:55:38 PM

Turns out ppcoin has very little POW exposure (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ppcoin-pow-exposure-147537), because the main chain is mainly selected by the POS blocks. POW now is just a means to facilitate coin distribution.

Another positive aspect is that Sunny decided early on to drop micro-transactions. This makes sense, since micro-transactions are not very economical with a blockchain consensus model (a lesson the bitcoin community still has to learn IMHO). Also the currency is slightly inflationary (strongly in the first few years) - so I expect the minimal network fee to not be a problem.

What do you mean exactly by dropping micro-transactions?

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 03:43:35 PM

...
I know nothing about crypto. Cheesy

You obviously dont know the difference in checkpointing purpose for BTC versus PPC.

PPC needs the checkpointing otherwise someone could fork the chain with relatively low computational power.

The funny thing is I troll with the FACTs. I dont mislead with BULLSHIT.

I am labeled a troll because people can't handle the truth.

Everything I've stated is facts and can be backed up by others on this forum.

By all means go ask Mr. Sunny King about his PPC project. Ask him about the development process and see how far you get with that...all i've gotten up until this point is SILENCE and CRICKETs.

Buy all the PPC you want. No one is saying you cant. I'm just here to inform the uninformed that PPC is broken.

Oh and by the way, people would take my word much more seriously than yours. I've been on this forum close to 2 years and you are just making 4 weeks. So welcome to the land of trolls.

Jutarul

donator

Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 03:43:35 PM

7. PPcoin vulnerabilities have now been patched and further to this a tournament is being held to prove the strength of the system and to root out any minor bugs (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ppcoin-stake-generation-tournament-152809) e.g. something similar to double spend for bitcoin.

Please get involved. Don't just try to sit back and watch.
The tournament is an attempt to leverage the brain power on this forum and within the ppcoin community.

Quote from: mr_random on March 17, 2013, 03:43:35 PM

8 ...Actually the other downside I see of ppcoin is it uses the SHA algorithm so will probably get ASICs?[/b] This affects all coins apart from Litecoin and NVC though.

Turns out ppcoin has very little POW exposure (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ppcoin-pow-exposure-147537), because the main chain is mainly selected by the POS blocks. POW now is just a means to facilitate coin distribution.

Another positive aspect is that Sunny decided early on to drop micro-transactions. This makes sense, since micro-transactions are not very economical with a blockchain consensus model (a lesson the bitcoin community still has to learn IMHO). Also the currency is slightly inflationary (strongly in the first few years) - so I expect the minimal network fee to not be a problem.

Topic: That's the end of the altcoins glory? (Read 2400 times)