hayek:
Innovation and creativity always outpaces tyranny
I envy your limited experience with tyrants. :-(
Topic: The Anonymity concept is holding back the Revolution - dicussion thread (Read 2906 times)
August 29, 2013, 02:12:33 AM
hayek:
I envy your limited experience with tyrants. :-(
August 28, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
Innovation and creativity always outpaces tyranny
August 28, 2013, 04:23:24 PM
Explanation. TX From Bitcoin Addresses that are not registered (Verified ID Wallet) are blocked. Only registered Addresses can be used. --> Central Point of Authority Neccesary.
Hmm. So if this central authority requires 100% uptime to unblock transactions, then load-sharing across the network becomes a moot effort.
If transactions not certified by the central authority were blocked, then what would be the purpose of using proof of work and mining to defend against double spending? Just make that same central authority play double-spend referee. They already require 100% uptime to verify identities.
And what would be the value of distributing the ledger publicly? If the Central Authority disagrees with what your copy of the ledger says, then only their copy matters since they veto any transaction they choose. So that bitcoin aspect also becomes dead weight.
You are left with "central authority maintains central ledger and must remain online to authorize every transaction, checking the identity of all parties involved". This is indistinguishable from an older and well known payment system called "a Bank".
August 28, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
There are always people who loved the band up until their 3rd album came out when they "sold out" and never let it go. There are those who loved the 3rd album and everything since. The "sound" of Bitcoin is changing and some are not going to like it.
Nice analogy!
The beauty of Bitcoin is that it can have more than one "sound" if there is enough demand.
August 28, 2013, 12:50:14 AM
Add in mixing services and you're anon again.
Or zerocoin/zerocoin like implementation.
Zerocoin is intriguing, though an issue with the homepage always gnaws at me:
Quote
Just as paper currency once gained its value from being redeemable for gold, zerocoins gain their value from being redeemable for bitcoins.
I don't know a lot about this but it seems backwards. First, isn't gold the anonymous store of value, and paper currencies the non-anonymous serialized more trackable payment devices? Second, are Zerocoins redeemable for bitcoin or is it a oneway trip the other way?
I have a lot to learn about it yet but my inclination when I see questionable openings is to suggest that it would go swifter riding along top one of the other cryptocurrencies and would also bring more value to a smaller one and thus be more swiftly implemented for live experimentation and learn how it is socialized in a place further from the front lines. Once the technical aspects are sorted, expect the social and community adjustment will be instructive.
It can always be added later, and sometimes software and protocols aren't always perfect the first time they are added.
August 27, 2013, 04:47:37 PM
There are always people who loved the band up until their 3rd album came out when they "sold out" and never let it go. There are those who loved the 3rd album and everything since. The "sound" of Bitcoin is changing and some are not going to like it.
Nice analogy!
August 27, 2013, 04:25:33 PM
Big win for Bitcoin, acceptance ordinary use. Big win for acceptance legitimacy. Big win legitimacy many legitimate transactions. Many legitimate transactions while not legal impossible Bitcoin. Would not Bitcoin bought myself except essays like this:
http://dillingers.com/blog/2013/08/26/an-investment-with-an-absolutely-appalling-history/
Google translate not handle well, but readable more than me. English. I feel same. Only way justify Bitcoin value, if people use for ordinary online payments all kinds. If that happen, three more value orders magnitude, easy. If not, coin all just tulips. Legitimate only way get future rich.
Not saying anonymity must weaken; but must accept police can penetrate with effort, timing attacks, etc, and not much strengthen else never be legal for ordinary use and all we all have tulips.
Can keep tracking Bitcoin hard like tracking cash; but not harder, else sacrifice future.
Edward.
August 17, 2013, 06:05:31 PM
At first, immediately locking a thread after the 1. Post is very bad stile.
Seems like you aren't even interested in counter arguments.
So here everyone can actually answer:
Seems like you aren't even interested in counter arguments.
So here everyone can actually answer:
Many BitCoiners are holding the idea that the Bitcoin system will help men to
stay Anonymous in front of the BigBrother. The idea was right and beautiful but
it is a dead idea in reality.
These days No One is really anonymous for the BigBrother.
News about the Prism systems revealed what was a known secret, governments
are surveilling their citizens and all other real or fake enemies. The BigBrother has
the best tools to do so and this advantage will always remain against the normal
citizens. (only really good hackers can stay Anonymous and only for a while).
Understanding and accepting this should not stop the Bitcoin revolution.
This understanding will enable us to look at all the advantages that Bitcoin
can bring to mankind.
- Worldwide commerce free of banks.
- Third nation people will be free from dictators that control the banks and will
be able to conduct parallel economies.
- Governments will not be able to sequestrate your money (they can jail you
but if you hide the key it’s untouchable).
By accepting the idea of "Verified ID Wallet" we gain a door to worldwide
market of individuals and firms that can trade and connect above the banking
system. Instead of wasting time and be on the run from the law we can make
a real commercial revolution.
For some Bitcoiners it will feel like aiming lower but I believe it’s great,
it’s the real gospel.
Mori.S
Colored BitCoin
stay Anonymous in front of the BigBrother. The idea was right and beautiful but
it is a dead idea in reality.
These days No One is really anonymous for the BigBrother.
News about the Prism systems revealed what was a known secret, governments
are surveilling their citizens and all other real or fake enemies. The BigBrother has
the best tools to do so and this advantage will always remain against the normal
citizens. (only really good hackers can stay Anonymous and only for a while).
Understanding and accepting this should not stop the Bitcoin revolution.
This understanding will enable us to look at all the advantages that Bitcoin
can bring to mankind.
- Worldwide commerce free of banks.
- Third nation people will be free from dictators that control the banks and will
be able to conduct parallel economies.
- Governments will not be able to sequestrate your money (they can jail you
but if you hide the key it’s untouchable).
By accepting the idea of "Verified ID Wallet" we gain a door to worldwide
market of individuals and firms that can trade and connect above the banking
system. Instead of wasting time and be on the run from the law we can make
a real commercial revolution.
For some Bitcoiners it will feel like aiming lower but I believe it’s great,
it’s the real gospel.
Mori.S
Colored BitCoin
yes tracking money and where you spend it makes it legal, just like paper money is untrackable unless you record the serial number and know who its currently with. dont be retarded. it can only end badly if the government tracks you even more than it alrady does.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109205308/bitcoin1.gif
August 17, 2013, 02:23:09 PM
Nobody uses bitcoin yet. It's hard to know why people will adopt its use.
Thats not true plenty of people use bitcoin everyday. Retail acceptance has been slow but that doesn't mean people aren't using it.
Proof? I can make random general statements too ya know. The truth is you have no idea how many people are using bitcoin but I think you would be surprised its a lot bigger than you know.
1) bitcoin is money Bitcoin is Money
2) bitcoin is a commodity with a return on mining investment
3) bitcoin is a currency with Millions in Dollar value transacted EVERYDAY
For an even better analysis of money and its functions and its problems check out "Rethinking Money"
http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Money-Currencies-Scarcity-Prosperity/dp/1609942965/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376767315
Here are some recent news programs about BITCOIN
BITCOIN NEWS 8/17/2013 not sure where to put THIS but in a way it affects us all ... Only decent discussion of Bitcoins in News on RT
Capital Interest and Keiser Report (Max Keiser is a Bitcoin Millionaire from PirateMyfilm.com).
Here are some videos about bitcoin recently (todays news on RT.com) All in english
Daily News Report with Bitcoin Segment and US Authorities (BIG BANKSTERS / VISA /AMEX) "becoming concerned"
http://rt.com/bulletin-board/rtnews-august-16-1200msk-562/
Russian trying to crack down on TOR network
http://rt.com/politics/russia-tor-anonymizer-ban-571/
http://rt.com/shows/prime-interest/bitcoin-gold-snowden-us-600/ BitCoinVs.Gold what funny is about this is, I weekend gold pan (in theSierra) and have about as much money in goldpanning/camping equip as I do in computers but have made far more money in BTC than I ever did digging for gold... Anyone want to buy GOLD PANNING equipment for BTC? haha -- digeros
August 15, 2013, 04:15:46 PM
The OP obviously.
Right but is there a movement out there advocating for it?
I guess not.
No, luckily none I'm aware of.
August 15, 2013, 03:56:14 PM
The OP obviously.
Right but is there a movement out there advocating for it?
I guess not.
August 15, 2013, 03:46:41 PM
Thank you for pointing that out. Yes I'm that guy today. 
Verified ID wallet sounds completely unnecessary/overkill and this is the first I've heard of it. Who is advocating for that?
Verified ID wallet sounds completely unnecessary/overkill and this is the first I've heard of it. Who is advocating for that?
The OP obviously.
I don't question that exchanges will need to be certified financial service providers. I honestly don't see how it could work (in a big fashion) any different.
The beauty is that we can have it both ways. Certified exchanges and a black marked beneath, just like in the real world.
August 15, 2013, 03:19:44 PM
That's a fair and obvious statement to many, but it seems the context of this conversation is how US regulation is softening the anonymity aspect of Bitcoin.
US regulation is compromising the integrity of US-based bitcoin companies. That is all.I don't see any US-based Bitcoin companies fighting regulation. They all want it. If they don't, they won't be able to do business at all.
So compromised integrity in the eyes of a rest of world bitcoin users/companies, but necessary for them to operate in the US.
August 15, 2013, 02:42:25 PM
Sign. You didn't even really read my post or the OT, did you.
I was not even talking about exchanges. But Verified ID Wallets. So you entire post makes no sense as an answer.
Edit:
Explanation. TX From Bitcoin Addresses that are not registered (Verified ID Wallet) are blocked. Only registered Addresses can be used. --> Central Point of Authority Neccesary.
I was not even talking about exchanges. But Verified ID Wallets. So you entire post makes no sense as an answer.
Edit:
Explanation. TX From Bitcoin Addresses that are not registered (Verified ID Wallet) are blocked. Only registered Addresses can be used. --> Central Point of Authority Neccesary.
Thank you for pointing that out. Yes I'm that guy today.
Verified ID wallet sounds completely unnecessary/overkill and this is the first I've heard of it. Who is advocating for that?
August 15, 2013, 02:34:31 PM
Nobody uses bitcoin yet. It's hard to know why people will adopt its use.
Thats not true plenty of people use bitcoin everyday. Retail acceptance has been slow but that doesn't mean people aren't using it.
Proof? I can make random general statements too ya know. The truth is you have no idea how many people are using bitcoin but I think you would be surprised its a lot bigger than you know.
August 15, 2013, 02:25:03 PM
Sign. You didn't even really read my post or the OT, did you.
I was not even talking about exchanges. But Verified ID Wallets. So you entire post makes no sense as an answer.
Edit:
Explanation. TX From Bitcoin Addresses that are not registered (Verified ID Wallet) are blocked. Only registered Addresses can be used. --> Central Point of Authority Neccesary.
I was not even talking about exchanges. But Verified ID Wallets. So you entire post makes no sense as an answer.
Edit:
Explanation. TX From Bitcoin Addresses that are not registered (Verified ID Wallet) are blocked. Only registered Addresses can be used. --> Central Point of Authority Neccesary.
August 15, 2013, 02:19:17 PM
Bitcoin is not anonymous it's pseudonymous.
Thank you for pointing that out. I point that out to people who ask about it who are not into BTC but assume those in the know understand that and mean that when they talk about the anonymity of bitcoin.
As soon as you add a central point where you have to register in order to be able to use Bitcoin it is no longer decentralized. Because you immediately have a Authority that decides who can use it and who can't. = Central Bank
Simple as that.
Simple as that.
The points of identification are US based exchanges which are not centralized. So a "central bank" or any government entity would not know your identity unless you behavior at the exchange triggered a BSA filling.
This is not a binary process where a switch is flipped and all BTC users in the US have to identify or else. There are nuances to this that soften the sensationalism we hear in the media as well as devout Bitcoin enthusiasts.
I'll also add that you could be a miner in the US or somehow get your funds into BTC via exchanges other than US based ones, and if you never convert your BTC to USD, you can keep your pseudo-anonymity intact.
August 15, 2013, 01:38:03 PM
Bitcoin is not anonymous it's pseudonymous.
This pseudonimity is not a feature, nor was it explicitly wanted.
It's simply a necessity. Bitcoin is a decentralized, open source currency.
As soon as you add a central point where you have to register in order to be able to use Bitcoin it is no longer decentralized. Because you immediately have a Authority that decides who can use it and who can't. = Central Bank
Simple as that.
Also Bitcoin is just a protocol. Asking for "Verified ID Wallet" like the OP did, would be like asking for "Verified ID Mail", where you only can send and receive E-Mails when you have your ID verified. It totally defeats the purpose.
Regulation for Financial Service Providers that use Bitcoin, OK (if it has to)
For the protocol itself? Never!
This pseudonimity is not a feature, nor was it explicitly wanted.
It's simply a necessity. Bitcoin is a decentralized, open source currency.
As soon as you add a central point where you have to register in order to be able to use Bitcoin it is no longer decentralized. Because you immediately have a Authority that decides who can use it and who can't. = Central Bank
Simple as that.
Also Bitcoin is just a protocol. Asking for "Verified ID Wallet" like the OP did, would be like asking for "Verified ID Mail", where you only can send and receive E-Mails when you have your ID verified. It totally defeats the purpose.
Regulation for Financial Service Providers that use Bitcoin, OK (if it has to)
For the protocol itself? Never!
August 15, 2013, 12:28:41 PM
That's a fair and obvious statement to many, but it seems the context of this conversation is how US regulation is softening the anonymity aspect of Bitcoin.
US regulation is compromising the integrity of US-based bitcoin companies. That is all.I don't see any US-based Bitcoin companies fighting regulation. They all want it. If they don't, they won't be able to do business at all.
So compromised integrity in the eyes of a rest of world bitcoin users/companies, but necessary for them to operate in the US.
August 15, 2013, 12:24:21 PM
That's a fair and obvious statement to many, but it seems the context of this conversation is how US regulation is softening the anonymity aspect of Bitcoin.
US regulation is compromising the integrity of US-based bitcoin companies. That is all. Jump to: