The BTC price must stabilize in the long run. - page 2.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on August 19, 2022, 09:38:22 PM

Quote from: BitcoinPanther on August 19, 2022, 06:15:50 PM

Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I also think that for the masses and the government to acknowledge Bitcoin, it needs to get rid of its high volatility. I know it will be gone one day but I think it will take long years of waiting for the price of Bitcoin to stablize. I guess it will happen when the last coin is mined or when majority of the population are using Bitcoin.

This is very unlikely in my opinion, we cannot deny that it is the volatility of bitcoin that attracts people to bitcoin and the market and not the technology behind it, it has but very few people care about technology. What everyone wants here is profit.

Once bitcoin becomes as stable as gold it is today it is very likely that countries will gradually adopt it but we will also lose a large number of bitcoin users as it is no longer profitable for them.

No it won't lose bitcoin users, what it will lose are speculators and traders who intend to take advantage of Bitcoin high volatility. Why would a user abandon Bitcoin when Bitcoin got adopted by masses or government? As far as I know, bitcoin users are those who use Bitcoin regardless of profit. They are the one who use it as a currency and often buy things using Bitcoin.

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Quote from: Agbe on August 18, 2022, 01:56:01 PM

Yes, I agree with you on the bases that you can not force a monetization process to be stablized over night. But removing volatility side of bitcoin is something that might have issue because even my country's currency as it is now, it is unpredictable.

Of course, I am not expecting perfect stability in the price. I know that there will be continuous deviations in terms of hundreds and maybe even thousands of dollars (if the price of Bitcoin reaches an extremely high value). But price swigns such as 0.5x, 3x, 0.75x are unacceptable for most people who want to do commerce [not trading] in bitcoin. This has already been explained by many other people in different threads.

So suppose we have the current price of BTC: $20,000. Assume the price is supposed to stay like that (in reality it will not stay at this price because BTC has much more market potential).

I don't mind price swings of $100, $200, $500 or even $1000.

But a price fluctuation of $2000, $5000 etc. becomes destructive, because people will wait for the prices to rise to profitable levels so they can spend less BTC. So there will be fewer economic transactions during a bear season.

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Quote from: Ozero on August 20, 2022, 08:36:58 AM

Quote from: BitcoinPanther on August 19, 2022, 06:15:50 PM

Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I also think that for the masses and the government to acknowledge Bitcoin, it needs to get rid of its high volatility. I know it will be gone one day but I think it will take long years of waiting for the price of Bitcoin to stablize. I guess it will happen when the last coin is mined or when majority of the population are using Bitcoin.

I don’t think that a decentralized cryptocurrency will ever be able to get rid of its high price volatility. Some argue that this will happen when people start using bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies en masse, and thus, since the buying and selling actions of many people will almost always already be balanced, the price of the cryptocurrency will be more stable. It is unlikely that this will happen. The price of a cryptocurrency, as in the stock market, will always depend on bad or good news, and this, in turn, will influence the mass decision of cryptocurrency holders to buy or sell it, and then high volatility will continue.

The only way Bitcoin will become stable is if and only if people decide to use it as a currency, a method of payment. Unlike today, people are buying bitcoin and expecting to be able to sell it at a higher price to make a profit from it. As a result of this thinking, bitcoin will never be stable, as everyone tends to buy low when the price is low and will sell high when the price is high. The volatility of Bitcoin will depend on our behavior.

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on August 19, 2022, 06:15:50 PM

Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I also think that for the masses and the government to acknowledge Bitcoin, it needs to get rid of its high volatility. I know it will be gone one day but I think it will take long years of waiting for the price of Bitcoin to stablize. I guess it will happen when the last coin is mined or when majority of the population are using Bitcoin.

I don’t think that a decentralized cryptocurrency will ever be able to get rid of its high price volatility. Some argue that this will happen when people start using bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies en masse, and thus, since the buying and selling actions of many people will almost always already be balanced, the price of the cryptocurrency will be more stable. It is unlikely that this will happen. The price of a cryptocurrency, as in the stock market, will always depend on bad or good news, and this, in turn, will influence the mass decision of cryptocurrency holders to buy or sell it, and then high volatility will continue.

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on August 19, 2022, 06:15:50 PM

Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I also think that for the masses and the government to acknowledge Bitcoin, it needs to get rid of its high volatility. I know it will be gone one day but I think it will take long years of waiting for the price of Bitcoin to stablize. I guess it will happen when the last coin is mined or when majority of the population are using Bitcoin.

This is very unlikely in my opinion, we cannot deny that it is the volatility of bitcoin that attracts people to bitcoin and the market and not the technology behind it, it has but very few people care about technology. What everyone wants here is profit.

Once bitcoin becomes as stable as gold it is today it is very likely that countries will gradually adopt it but we will also lose a large number of bitcoin users as it is no longer profitable for them.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I also think that for the masses and the government to acknowledge Bitcoin, it needs to get rid of its high volatility. I know it will be gone one day but I think it will take long years of waiting for the price of Bitcoin to stablize. I guess it will happen when the last coin is mined or when majority of the population are using Bitcoin.

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Quote from: NotATether on August 18, 2022, 07:51:42 AM

The stuff that follwed was more of a hard fact than this part.

No it isn't. We're in a bear market and "investing" in altcoins can make your capital shrink. It's as hard fact as it isn't.

Quote from: NotATether on August 18, 2022, 07:51:42 AM

The point being, vultures that are only here for the profits ought to go elsewhere.

I don't agree. Foolish vultures that can't even pleasure themselves with hands so weak go elsewhere. The smart ones hold bitcoin and enjoy thrilling appreciations over the long term.

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Why do we need to compare Bitcoin exchange rates with those of fiat currencies and commodities? And I don't think that Bitcoin is more volatile than most of the national currencies and commodities. For example, the Turkish Lira has gone down against the USD by more than 50% during the last 12 months (1 USD = 8.5 TRL to 1 USD = 18.1 TRL). Even the Euro has gone down by ~20% against the USD. Now take the case of commodities. Dutch TTF natural gas prices are up by almost 2500% during the last two years. Crude oil is up by 150%.

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Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I put emphasis on the word "naturally" because you cannot force a monetary process to establish itself in a few short years. The price and users must gradually reach an inflection point on their own.

It is similar to implementing the Euro as the official European currency. By no means were the governments rushed to scrap their central bank currencies, they were give ample time (about a decade or two IIRC) to phase it in, in stages.

So Bitcoin, and anything that wants to follow it in market capitalization, must be introduced to the public in phases, which could take a very long time.

The rest of the altcoins that do not stabilize can disappear (e.g. Solana), I have no pity for them as they only serve to give larger cryptocurrencies (and crypto in general) a bad name in the news.

Yes, I agree with you on the bases that you can not force a monetization process to be stablized over night. But removing volatility side of bitcoin is something that might have issue because even my country's currency as it is now, it is unpredictable. And that is already stable currency talking of bitcoin which is not stable at the moment and I doubt if bitcoin even be stable because bitcoin is not controlled by Central Bank of a country whereby it tells the sub bank to obey their policies. Yes if the volatility can be vanished naturally then bitcoin at that point becomes stable but at what point do you what bitcoin to be stable? Because people predict that they want 1 bitcoin to be $100+k and others even predict more so with this I think the volatility side of bitcoin is undiscussed as for now. Even the rising and falling aspect of it is a benefit to some people. Some people make profit when it is in the bear Market and others make profit when it is in the bull market. That is why it is only those who understand bitcoin can make Investment. Anyone that scared to invest in bitcoin is not conversant user of bitcoin. Bitcoin is meant for everyone as it is in fiat currency but everyone is not meant for bitcoin.

NotATether

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on August 18, 2022, 06:55:34 AM

Quote from: NotATether on August 18, 2022, 06:45:22 AM

Here is a hard fact: If you're only here to make money, then walk the plank and convert all your holdings to Ethereum (with their 2.0 launch mania you will make a hansome profit in the next 1-2 months).

Hard fact? You mean bareless speculation?

The stuff that follwed was more of a hard fact than this part.

The point being, vultures that are only here for the profits ought to go elsewhere.

(I do not particularly like Ethereum, but Blockchain.info made such a fool of themselves splashing it on their front page that I fent compelled to post it here.)

BlackHatCoiner

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Tὰ πάντα ῥεῖ.

The price will never stabilize in the long run; it'll just be less fluctuating than it is now, assuming there will be more institutions and countries in play. And that's because there's nothing stable in the nature to begin with. State intervention might have boiled things down with market regulations so far, but bitcoin is another thing. There is no freer market than the bitcoin one. And a so free market comes with destabilization, as third parties can't intervene to disrupt it.

Authorities can't confiscate it. They can't control who's gonna move what, let alone the demand & supply. They can't criminalize/stop/regulate its use effectively. Gold bugs cannot rival what we've built here. Gold Standard is an innocent fool in comparison with the Bitcoin Standard. Ultimately, we're talking about the yet best, individual's-rights-preserving money.

Quote from: NotATether on August 18, 2022, 06:45:22 AM

Here is a hard fact: If you're only here to make money, then walk the plank and convert all your holdings to Ethereum (with their 2.0 launch mania you will make a hansome profit in the next 1-2 months).

Hard fact? You mean bareless speculation?

Quote from: NotATether on August 18, 2022, 06:45:22 AM

I refer you to this mailing list entry by Jaroslaw: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-August/020854.html

You should post this here if it concerns you.

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Quote from: Fatunad on August 16, 2022, 05:00:01 PM

Its just common sense and if we do talk about stability then its better to deal with fiat or stable coins but we know the cons of it which it would be less for you to make money or profits.

No, that's not how economies work. You are implying that there is some kind of difference in Bitcoin (and possibly other cryptos) that handicaps their purpose as a method of payment.

Quote

One of the things on why people do love to invest on something which does have potential on making profits via those movements and this is where people do get interested.
We dont want stability and we dont want for the price on moving less because we cant really make out some money with that and this is what most people do love the most
which its moving price and since it does have the potential then there's no doubt on making profits in the future.

Here is a hard fact: If you're only here to make money, then walk the plank and convert all your holdings to Ethereum (with their 2.0 launch mania you will make a hansome profit in the next 1-2 months).

If everyone just stays here to make money, then we are only proving the naysayers right when they said "Bitcoin is just a speculative bubble". You are suppoesd to buy, and then you HODL the majority of it. There is a certain stage in the network's growth where increased prices become destructive due to lack of increasing difficulty [new antminers having only small speed boost] - and the priority should be to save the network above making money.

Even if we have to turn off halvings to keep the hashrate in balance, we should do it. IDGAF if the price never moons again at that point. The point is to maintain an inflation-resistant currency, not an investment scheme.

I refer you to this mailing list entry by Jaroslaw: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-August/020854.html

One of the finest pieces I read about the subject of blockchain economics.

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 18, 2022, 06:19:06 AM

Quote from: Fatunad on August 16, 2022, 05:00:01 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 16, 2022, 03:16:12 AM

~

Its just common sense and if we do talk about stability then its better to deal with fiat or stable coins but we know the cons of it which it would be less for you to make money or profits.
One of the things on why people do love to invest on something which does have potential on making profits via those movements and this is where people do get interested.
We dont want stability and we dont want for the price on moving less because we cant really make out some money with that and this is what most people do love the most
which its moving price and since it does have the potential then there's no doubt on making profits in the future.

It depends on who are the "we". Daily traders don't want stability for sure, but just holders ... idk. The lack of stability is what scares off many people from using Bitcoin, and we want more of them, right?

Yes, we don't want stability around $20k, but around $100k, I wouldn't mind.

In trading perspective for sure traders would not like to see bitcoin go stabilize because if this happen for sure many traders lose a lot of profit because they cannot trade it according to what position they like to enter.

But if we also see it on adoption especially to be added on local merchant maybe this is good because for sure many institutions will look at it as valid grounds for acceptance and they will not worry about volatility and they can take advantage on its huge user base.

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Quote from: Fatunad on August 16, 2022, 05:00:01 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 16, 2022, 03:16:12 AM

~

Its just common sense and if we do talk about stability then its better to deal with fiat or stable coins but we know the cons of it which it would be less for you to make money or profits.
One of the things on why people do love to invest on something which does have potential on making profits via those movements and this is where people do get interested.
We dont want stability and we dont want for the price on moving less because we cant really make out some money with that and this is what most people do love the most
which its moving price and since it does have the potential then there's no doubt on making profits in the future.

It depends on who are the "we". Daily traders don't want stability for sure, but just holders ... idk. The lack of stability is what scares off many people from using Bitcoin, and we want more of them, right?

Yes, we don't want stability around $20k, but around $100k, I wouldn't mind.

Fatunad

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 16, 2022, 03:16:12 AM

Quote from: arwin100 on August 10, 2022, 06:38:06 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 10, 2022, 05:23:01 AM

~ It may be hard to understand for most people in the world at the moment, but these days Bitcoin indeed is better than gold. There's nothing wrong with gold itself, it will always be worth something, but today it's overpriced big time, same as it was 10 years ago. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is now fluctuating around its new bottom.

For profitability reason yes we can say that bitcoin is better than gold but before we can earn with it we must have been more experience dealing with volatility since if we are newbie and been hype up with results shown on internet then maybe we will not like bitcoin at first try. This is why we need to think more and learn more before we enter because bitcoin is volatile and that add the risk upon trying to select this as investment.

Learning and getting experience is never a bad idea, so I'm not going to argue with that. But don't you think that with Bitcoin it doesn't take a lot of learning to see that your investment is going to be profitable in the long run?

What you describe is very important for day traders. Indeed, you can earn a lot with exploiting the volatility of BTC, and you can lose a lot too. But for the long term investors volatility is irrelevant.

Its just common sense and if we do talk about stability then its better to deal with fiat or stable coins but we know the cons of it which it would be less for you to make money or profits.
One of the things on why people do love to invest on something which does have potential on making profits via those movements and this is where people do get interested.
We dont want stability and we dont want for the price on moving less because we cant really make out some money with that and this is what most people do love the most
which its moving price and since it does have the potential then there's no doubt on making profits in the future.

Betwrong

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Quote from: arwin100 on August 10, 2022, 06:38:06 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 10, 2022, 05:23:01 AM

~ It may be hard to understand for most people in the world at the moment, but these days Bitcoin indeed is better than gold. There's nothing wrong with gold itself, it will always be worth something, but today it's overpriced big time, same as it was 10 years ago. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is now fluctuating around its new bottom.

For profitability reason yes we can say that bitcoin is better than gold but before we can earn with it we must have been more experience dealing with volatility since if we are newbie and been hype up with results shown on internet then maybe we will not like bitcoin at first try. This is why we need to think more and learn more before we enter because bitcoin is volatile and that add the risk upon trying to select this as investment.

Learning and getting experience is never a bad idea, so I'm not going to argue with that. But don't you think that with Bitcoin it doesn't take a lot of learning to see that your investment is going to be profitable in the long run?

What you describe is very important for day traders. Indeed, you can earn a lot with exploiting the volatility of BTC, and you can lose a lot too. But for the long term investors volatility is irrelevant.

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It took a long time to achieve bitcoin price stability. I agree it can be achieved in the long run if adoption is widespread in different countries. As a means of payment, bitcoin is expected to have better price stability so its volatility will not affect future adopters much. But I think this must be difficult to achieve and will probably take a lot of time considering traders and investors may never want stability.

Little by little people's mindset about bitcoin can change, but because bitcoin is traded and not controlled, its price stability will only be determined by supply and demand.

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Quote from: doomloop on August 11, 2022, 03:39:11 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 10, 2022, 05:23:01 AM

I congratulate you on making profits with investing in USDT, but how it's different from simply investing in USD then?

Because, it's not available in my nation to buy any amount you want, and sell any amount you want. There are regulations and people who do not have a license to trade, could do so with a limited amount of money, well I am already under that limit, so it wouldn't have mattered to me to be fair, but many people prefer USDT in my nation because of this, many also moved from USDT to BUSD instead, because Binance is bigger and better.

Long story short, USDT is still better because it's still crypto, we could also go into crypto from there easier as well. I have to say, the regulations mean nothing when you are in crypto and you know what you are doing.

That is true for me as well. Plus, even if it was available to buy as much as we want, being in and out of crypto with USD on the side is a great deal when you are doing it together. If the option was given to be USD then I would do that.

But, I use Binance and they have busd and not usd, that means that if I want to be in crypto, then I can buy crypto on Binance, and if I want to get out of crypto but not completely, just enough to trade, then I would have to turn them into BUSD. The idea to be in crypto and in fiat back and forth constantly makes me feel like it would cost a ton of money and I rather not do that at all, I would prefer if I could stay in BUSD and not in my own fiat, or even USD unless Binance offers that.

doomloop

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 10, 2022, 05:23:01 AM

I congratulate you on making profits with investing in USDT, but how it's different from simply investing in USD then?

Because, it's not available in my nation to buy any amount you want, and sell any amount you want. There are regulations and people who do not have a license to trade, could do so with a limited amount of money, well I am already under that limit, so it wouldn't have mattered to me to be fair, but many people prefer USDT in my nation because of this, many also moved from USDT to BUSD instead, because Binance is bigger and better.

Long story short, USDT is still better because it's still crypto, we could also go into crypto from there easier as well. I have to say, the regulations mean nothing when you are in crypto and you know what you are doing.

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Quote from: Fortify on August 10, 2022, 02:49:25 PM

Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2022, 06:49:50 AM

The only way to get people to stop worrying and shying away from Bitcoin, is to banish the volatility aspet of it, naturally.

I put emphasis on the word "naturally" because you cannot force a monetary process to establish itself in a few short years. The price and users must gradually reach an inflection point on their own.

It is similar to implementing the Euro as the official European currency. By no means were the governments rushed to scrap their central bank currencies, they were give ample time (about a decade or two IIRC) to phase it in, in stages.

So Bitcoin, and anything that wants to follow it in market capitalization, must be introduced to the public in phases, which could take a very long time.

The rest of the altcoins that do not stabilize can disappear (e.g. Solana), I have no pity for them as they only serve to give larger cryptocurrencies (and crypto in general) a bad name in the news.

If Bitcoin is going to be a solid and reliable currency that is used for into the future it needs to act like the biggest existing currencies which have reasonably low volatility like you say. Speculators are bad for the future of Bitcoin, because they are people who have the most fear and are the most erratic in their dealings with the currency. Volatility can also breed a lot of misunderstandings, put off newcomers who might only have sparse knowledge of how it works and create warning bells for politicians who will be more inclined to regulate against them. Stability will breed confidence and it'll actually be good once all the possible Bitcoin are mined, even though the newly minted stuff is in much lower supply than it used to be.

We dont really need that if we do speak about stability because if we do mind on this way then there's no difference on dealing with those fiat stable currency.Im not saying
that bitcoin cant be used as a currency but you shouldnt really believe about on being the main one because it cant just be possible and lets just move on because
thats not how BItcoin should be ending up.Stability is impossible and this would be always volatile and this is what people do love about it because we do make
money out of those movements thats why its really not that possible for it to happen.

Topic: The BTC price must stabilize in the long run. - page 2. (Read 1158 times)