Topic: The cancer that is Ponzi - page 3. (Read 5787 times)
Not other then that how about a few of the newbies that came on here almost the same time you showed up, how we know your not the same early investor? Ponzi is a dangerous and illegal investment activity. I think is best we all keep reporting there wesbites to the hosts, lets see how much can they afford to keep opening these games.
I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.
There is a clear difference.
There is a clear difference.
Defined by Merriam Webster.
Ponzi
- an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks
Your site and many others fit this bill to the tee. Case closed.
Not quite.
1) These are not investment opportunities - at no point are they sold as an investment, at no point are returns guaranteed
2) There is no encouragement for players to arrive late in rounds - the majority are smart enough to wait until the next round in hope of achieving their desired return.
I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.
There is a clear difference.
There is a clear difference.
Defined by Merriam Webster.
Ponzi
- an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks
Your site and many others fit this bill to the tee. Case closed.
Gambling games based on the ponzi-model. There's a difference.
No there isn't. Your simply trying to make a distinction so you that can stay in the gambling section and keep your mass of idiot newbie users to help line your pockets. Just because you declare something, doesn't make it any more legal or ethical. It's like you declare your doing tax evasion. It doesn't make a difference, it's still illegal.
I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.
There is a clear difference.
Gambling games based on the ponzi-model. There's a difference.
No there isn't. Your simply trying to make a distinction so you that can stay in the gambling section and keep your mass of idiot newbie users to help line your pockets. Just because you declare something, doesn't make it any more legal or ethical. It's like you declare your doing tax evasion. It doesn't make a difference, it's still illegal.
Ponzi is gambling but it is a gambling game with skills
It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills
The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams
It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills
The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams
ponzi is not a real gambling game or it wouldnt need a license to run it. Ponzi is mostly illegal. Who ever wants to fight ponzis off this site PM Me. I found a way to make the Admin listen.
Gambling games based on the ponzi-model. There's a difference.
Ponzi is gambling but it is a gambling game with skills
It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills
The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams
It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills
The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams
ponzi is not a real gambling game or it wouldnt need a license to run it. Ponzi is mostly illegal. Who ever wants to fight ponzis off this site PM Me. I found a way to make the Admin listen.
Ponzi is gambling but it is a gambling game with skills
It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills
The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams
It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills
The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams
I'm not sure if you are talking to me. But I do not really care about people who play ponzis and I never had or will play them. I don't really think that "they need to be stopped".
It's just that ponzi-players and "traditional gamblers" seem 2 different target groups to me. And -because- there are so many ponzi topics they "deserve" to have an own subforum.
It's just that ponzi-players and "traditional gamblers" seem 2 different target groups to me. And -because- there are so many ponzi topics they "deserve" to have an own subforum.
Well there are so many ponzis right now that it cannot be stopped 
because people play it.
You should not be angry about them anymore.
Just walk away from ponzi and forget it
because people play it.You should not be angry about them anymore.
Just walk away from ponzi and forget it
Well it's good to hear that you refunded them. Sorry for your loss and for saying "stole all the money" ... it kinda looked like that.
Still I think a sub forum for Ponzi/HYIP is appropriate as I explained in my previous post on the previous page.
Also > "every" bitcoin site should have bug bounty program, see my signature
Still I think a sub forum for Ponzi/HYIP is appropriate as I explained in my previous post on the previous page.
Also > "every" bitcoin site should have bug bounty program, see my signature
I'm the owner of PonziCoin - the server was subjected to an attempted injection attack last night whereby someone was able to send HTTP requests to a number of my backend scripts which control payouts, new rounds etc etc. As I have Fail2Ban configured to scan for such suspicious activity (pretty much any HTTP request sending arguments), the server essentially shuts down any none core operations (e.g. cron is stopped as too are any ad-hoc processes) to protect its assets, in this case the BitCoin wallets.
As soon as I was made aware of the problems I responded by instantly making a full refund to the players and posting here.
Sure it would have been an easy 10+BTC but I have been fighting tooth and nail over the past few weeks defending sites such as my own, as not all ponzi-type games are scams, and that is something I strongly believe in.
I can only apologise to the players affected, some of which appear to have shit a brick in the process!
As soon as I was made aware of the problems I responded by instantly making a full refund to the players and posting here.
Sure it would have been an easy 10+BTC but I have been fighting tooth and nail over the past few weeks defending sites such as my own, as not all ponzi-type games are scams, and that is something I strongly believe in.
I can only apologise to the players affected, some of which appear to have shit a brick in the process!
If there are many people who like traditional gambling games and not Ponzis, then a category should probably be created, but I'm not sure where the line would be drawn between Ponzis and other games. Maybe traditional games must be based 100% on chance? But that'd eliminate many other games as well.
I'm thinking anything with ponzi in the name is a good place to start.
Looks like the "legit" ponzi that had an advertisement running here stole all the money.
What a surprise. Ponzi turns out to be a Ponzi scheme.
Seriously, can we have a subforum already? Just call it "Ponzi, HYIP and other scams for greedy idiots"
And no apsvinet, never gave a single satoshi to any ponzi scheme. But I do like to follow Gambling threads and it's a bit annoying with all these ponzi shit. (and no I don't really gamble even, mostly poker which is EV+ for me :>)
What a surprise. Ponzi turns out to be a Ponzi scheme.
Seriously, can we have a subforum already? Just call it "Ponzi, HYIP and other scams for greedy idiots"
And no apsvinet, never gave a single satoshi to any ponzi scheme. But I do like to follow Gambling threads and it's a bit annoying with all these ponzi shit. (and no I don't really gamble even, mostly poker which is EV+ for me :>)
IMHO stupid people will always do stupid things... and there's a whole industry to capitalize on exactly that.
When people send money into a site that advertises as "The trusted Ponzi !" *lol* then there's no hope for these fools. Let them play, let them fail. They'll never learn anyway, this is beyond their capabilties...
Stupid may occasionally run out of money - but he'll never run out of stupid.
This is quite accurate. The only people I see complaining about ponzis are those who have been foolish enough to invest in them.When people send money into a site that advertises as "The trusted Ponzi !" *lol* then there's no hope for these fools. Let them play, let them fail. They'll never learn anyway, this is beyond their capabilties...
Stupid may occasionally run out of money - but he'll never run out of stupid.
IMHO stupid people will always do stupid things... and there's a whole industry to capitalize on exactly that.
Rigged gambling sites (they all are), rigged lotteries, ponzies and all the other junk that's out there. Provably fair is just smoke and mirrors, they are all rigged to make profits off the fools, that's their only business.
When people send money into a site that advertises as "The trusted Ponzi !" *lol* then there's no hope for these fools. Let them play, let them fail. They'll never learn anyway, this is beyond their capabilties...
Stupid may occasionally run out of money - but he'll never run out of stupid.
Rigged gambling sites (they all are), rigged lotteries, ponzies and all the other junk that's out there. Provably fair is just smoke and mirrors, they are all rigged to make profits off the fools, that's their only business.
When people send money into a site that advertises as "The trusted Ponzi !" *lol* then there's no hope for these fools. Let them play, let them fail. They'll never learn anyway, this is beyond their capabilties...
Stupid may occasionally run out of money - but he'll never run out of stupid.
I am thinking - I don't understand people who play ponzi.
If you want to gable - play @ Ca$ino.
It's legit
It's provable
And 140% is nothing if you are lucky you can get 600% or 6000%
Anyway - It seems like a bit less Ponzis around from few days.
♥♦♣♠
If you want to gable - play @ Ca$ino.
It's legit
It's provable
And 140% is nothing if you are lucky
you can get 600% or 6000%Anyway - It seems like a bit less Ponzis around from few days.
♥♦♣♠
Gambles have provably fair rules.
Ponzis are scams in which, by design, the author can pull the plug whenever he sees fit.
In the best interest of young people and/or newcomers who might not understand this I would add a new subforum called "HYIP/Ponzi/scams", or directly "Scams".
On the other hand you can never guarantee 100% of the gambling Ponzis are scams in which, by design, the author can pull the plug whenever he sees fit.
In the best interest of young people and/or newcomers who might not understand this I would add a new subforum called "HYIP/Ponzi/scams", or directly "Scams".
sites out there are provably fair by any means, not even 10% of
them. Besides they can also refuse withdrawals whenever they see fit.
Even if they could make all their transactions transparent to confirm overall rates of return, and even if they allow all withdrawals, winnings could unfairly diverted to shill accounts they control. Say they have a 99.5% EV and can "prove" that they do on the block chain. That's great! But there's no way for a gambler to know that "real" users don't actually have a 90% EV while shill accounts cart away the extra profits. The only way to tell is to play over a long enough period of time that your own low rates of return diverge with statistical significance from the advertise EV. For a game with large variance, proving such a scam would be costly.
This is a problem in real casinos, but it's much more pronounced with Bitcoin where all you need to make another shill account is a couple of prime numbers.
So I don't really know what Rampion means by "provably fair rules." If he means rules that are understood by all players in advance, things like PonziCoin seem to fit the bill. If he means rules that are provably enforced by the operator fairly against players--there seem to be FAR fewer such services than there are gambling sites.
If someone told you to throw 100 dollars in the ocean, and that there was a 50% chance he'd give you 150 dollars for doing so, it's a gamble. You risk your money in exchange for a % chance of getting it back with a profit. Is it a tax on stupid people? Perhaps, but it's
a profit-risk calculation everyone has to do on their own. You can't just blindly trust websites that claim they're "provably fair".
Gambles have provably fair rules.
Ponzis are scams in which, by design, the author can pull the plug whenever he sees fit.
In the best interest of young people and/or newcomers who might not understand this I would add a new subforum called "HYIP/Ponzi/scams", or directly "Scams".
On the other hand you can never guarantee 100% of the gambling Ponzis are scams in which, by design, the author can pull the plug whenever he sees fit.
In the best interest of young people and/or newcomers who might not understand this I would add a new subforum called "HYIP/Ponzi/scams", or directly "Scams".
sites out there are provably fair by any means, not even 10% of
them. Besides they can also refuse withdrawals whenever they see fit.
Even if they could make all their transactions transparent to confirm overall rates of return, and even if they allow all withdrawals, winnings could unfairly diverted to shill accounts they control. Say they have a 99.5% EV and can "prove" that they do on the block chain. That's great! But there's no way for a gambler to know that "real" users don't actually have a 90% EV while shill accounts cart away the extra profits. The only way to tell is to play over a long enough period of time that your own low rates of return diverge with statistical significance from the advertise EV. For a game with large variance, proving such a scam would be costly.
This is a problem in real casinos, but it's much more pronounced with Bitcoin where all you need to make another shill account is a couple of prime numbers.
So I don't really know what Rampion means by "provably fair rules." If he means rules that are understood by all players in advance, things like PonziCoin seem to fit the bill. If he means rules that are provably enforced by the operator fairly against players--there seem to be FAR fewer such services than there are gambling sites.
what exactly distinguishes a Ponzi-type game from other gambling?
Gambles have provably fair rules.
Ponzis are scams in which, by design, the author can pull the plug whenever he sees fit.
In the best interest of young people and/or newcomers who might not understand this I would add a new subforum called "HYIP/Ponzi/scams", or directly "Scams".
sites out there are provably fair by any means, not even 10% of
them. Besides they can also refuse withdrawals whenever they see fit.
Jump to: