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Topic: The Chili – 30+GH/s BFL based Bitcoin Miner Assembly - page 69. (Read 137904 times)

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
any news about the boards?
is ready? Wink Wink Wink
As ChipGeek mentioned a few days ago, we've had a bit of a schedule slip. Along with a few other issues that have cropped up related to assembly but also due to the different behavior of the RevB chips vs the RevA samples that required some firmware changes.
The boards are now coming off the line though and programming and test should be getting underway as we speak, so there is still the possibility of getting some of them out the door today. For the majority though they won't be able to ship until next week.

We apologize for not being able to get them out this week; it was looking good for it when we got everything in on Monday. We'll do everything in our power to ensure that they do get out as soon as possible though.

I think every one here realises what an awesome job you two are doing, and people cannot possibly be unaware of the how this project has unfolded timeline-wise compared to, let's just say, "some other notable examples". If they are, then their opinions probably aren't worth worrying about too much.

Personally I am blown away by how well this has gone.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
any news about the boards?
is ready? Wink Wink Wink
As ChipGeek mentioned a few days ago, we've had a bit of a schedule slip. Along with a few other issues that have cropped up related to assembly but also due to the different behavior of the RevB chips vs the RevA samples that required some firmware changes.
The boards are now coming off the line though and programming and test should be getting underway as we speak, so there is still the possibility of getting some of them out the door today. For the majority though they won't be able to ship until next week.

We apologize for not being able to get them out this week; it was looking good for it when we got everything in on Monday. We'll do everything in our power to ensure that they do get out as soon as possible though.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
MrTeal/ChipGeek: How high off the board is the top of the chips? And how thick is the pcb?
According to my calipers, 1.21mm off the top of the board. The PCB is standard 63 mil.
legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1004
any news about the boards?
is ready? Wink Wink Wink
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
Just for everyone's info: I ordered the Hyper 212 EVO coolers from bitcoinstore.com and they shipped them the same day from Bloomington CA so I received them the very next day. The price was an unbeatable $27.94 each including shipping. Compare to Amazon at $33.24.

I ordered parts from various places for adapting this cooler to the Chili board, and as soon as I can confirm they will fit well, I'll offer to sell adapter kits. It would be something like 4 each of screws, spacers, and standoffs, for about $3 per set plus shipping.
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
MrTeal/ChipGeek: How high off the board is the top of the chips? And how thick is the pcb?
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
It is very exciting to see a board with chips!
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501
Looks great!  Well done guys!  What kind of pick and place equipment is being used to produce these?
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
Boards are coming off the SMT line

There won't be many done tonight, Chip Geek will be taking the first few off the line to test them and go over the program and test workflow. The real heavy lifting will be tomorrow.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
i have chips that i purchased from Canary where can i send my chips and have them assembled on a board?

legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1004
Also mr teal
What is the watt per board and the hashing per board?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500

We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue


Lol, you actually had me worried there for a minute!  Cheesy

inorite... i read that and started the facepalm... but halfway to slapping myself I read it was just LEDs and chuckled... if that is the worst we have to expect... id still say this was a home run.[/i]

I do have to ask though... why is there not a standard "here is the most basic, easy to install cooling configuration with instructions and links ot purchase the pieces" already?

Also, given I have a 4 chip miner, and that we will not know if we have "unlevel" chip heights until I actually have this in hand, I will have to wait until the day it arrives to assess my options instead of being ahead of the game with items ready upon arrival.

I have quite a few fabrication options at my disposal so, I may be tapping into those to get something custom made.

If chip height is uniform, Arctic Silver is the best suggested medium correct? If they are not uniform, the suggestion is thick pads?


From what I understand the board will be shipped with some documentation covering all aspects.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
I (probably like many other people) will detail my efforts to get the boards running in my environment. Maybe that will help some folks.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
I'm gonna need an idiot's guide here... my only experience with hardware is plug-and-play boards on a standard motherboard. Assuming ALL I have is a laptop to hook my miners to in terms of supplies, what on earth do I need to get? What do I even mount the boards on in addition to adding heatsinks etc? How do I connect them to a PSU and what do I need to look for in a PSU in terms of connections (I'm assuming modular at the very least, and decent wattage)? Do I need a case or can I just leave the boards hanging free in the wind? I'm not even sure what kinds of boards or cases are made for this kind of situation.

As for mounting heatsink/fan on the boards themselves, what kinds of screws? Which fan/heatsink combos come with a backplate that's compatible with these boards? What should I use to drill holes in a circuit board with so I don't damage the board? If thermal pads suck why are they the only solution that's acceptable for non-level chips?

In my case I have 4 boards incoming. I did get a few recommendations from MrTeal in PMs but there's a lot of missing info.

Edit: Ah, I misread the earlier post, it's the "custom backplate" that would need holes drilled in it, not the circuit board. Hopefully a more standard solution can be used though.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500

We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue


Lol, you actually had me worried there for a minute!  Cheesy

inorite... i read that and started the facepalm... but halfway to slapping myself I read it was just LEDs and chuckled... if that is the worst we have to expect... id still say this was a home run.

I do have to ask though... why is there not a standard "here is the most basic, easy to install cooling configuration with instructions and links ot purchase the pieces" already?

Also, given I have a 4 chip miner, and that we will not know if we have "unlevel" chip heights until I actually have this in hand, I will have to wait until the day it arrives to assess my options instead of being ahead of the game with items ready upon arrival.

I have quite a few fabrication options at my disposal so, I may be tapping into those to get something custom made.

If chip height is uniform, Arctic Silver is the best suggested medium correct? If they are not uniform, the suggestion is thick pads?
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250

We've had our first major screwup on the board, and it's entirely my fault. We used to have two different LEDs on the test board, green for the power rails and red for the status LEDs. On the production board there's only one main power LED along with the 8 status, and they're (supposed to be) all red. Unfortunately I screwed up and ordered the green ones, so the now-green status lights won't be as bright as they would have been. Sorry. Tongue


Lol, you actually had me worried there for a minute!  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 681
Merit: 500
I just ordered the 0.5mm 11W/mK Fujipoly from FrozenCPU, and the Hyper 212 EVO from BitcoinStore, but I guess I still need to find substitute hex standoffs and maybe screws. Will the Hyper 212 EVO work sufficiently with the included standoffs, short term? Or will I be unable to run the boards at all until I obtain shorter standoffs?

Will these male/female standoffs work well as a direct substitute of the ones that come with the Hyper212?
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/342/M2101-3005-AL-204111.pdf
If so, we could use the stock nuts and wouldn't need to buy screws.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
Is this correct:

Cooler
-------
pad
-------
PCB + Chips
------
foam
-------
backplate


The backplate is threaded and screws come in from the cooler through the PCB and tighten into the backplate?

Close, but the backplate isn't threaded and the screws go through it and thread into the cooler itself.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
Supplementary cooling - Depending on your interface, you can still get a bunch of heat going into these boards both from the mosfets and from the ASICs. If you don't have much airflow going over the boards themselves I'd recommend putting some press-on heatsinks like you can get for BGAs or RAM on the bottom side under the mosfets to keep them cool. They'll actually operate fine up to a junction temperature of 125C, but efficiency goes down.

Don't bother trying to put those little mosfet heatsinks on top of the FETs themselves. They're fiddly, annoying and don't do a whole lot. The TI NEXFET devices used are actually very well designed; all the transistors inside and the integrated driver have very good thermal paths to the big pad on the bottom which is connected to ground. Unlike a traditional synchronous buck design where the thermal pad of the top mosfet is connected to 12V and the thermal pad of the bottom one is connected to the one end of the inductor, you have a nice thermal path to the large ground area on the bottom side that makes it really easy to cool.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
There are also a bunch of questions about what thermal interface materials are acceptable and which ones aren't.

I first want to say that it's your unit, you are free to do with it what you'd like. Prior to shipment we are testing each unit long enough for it to reach thermal equilibrium for probably 10-30 minutes. The time is still up in the air depending on how efficient the test/programming techs and setup are. We're using some fancy carbon fiber pads and Arctic Cooling Mono Plus coolers if anyone's interested. They won't be sent if they don't function. After you get it, you can use peanut butter and hot fudge if you really want to. All we can do is provide suggestions.

TIM Tidbit #1: Your best interface is going to be using a grease like Arctic Silver. You'll get a much smaller gap between the die and the cooler, and performance will be much better than any other interface.

TIM Tidbit #2: The chips might not all be at the same height. In testing with thermal grease ChipGeek and I have both had single chips that sat appreciably lower than the others. In my case, it was enough to cause that one chip to be 20C higher that the others when voltage was applied but it wasn't hashing, so it was only consuming a watt or two. That chip still stayed about 20-25C hotter at full load, likely because the other chips were well cooled and it was able to dump most of its heat into the PCB copper layers. Still, it is not an ideal situation and if you had a couple chips that were low (or worse, two that were higher and prevented good contact on the other six) you might have serious problems. If you want to try thermal grease I can't stop you, but it might not work well and while we will attempt to throttle based on temperature if there is a really bad contact the ASIC could overheat.

TM Tidbit #3: Thermal interface pads are bad. Even the good ones are bad, but that's the hand we're dealt. The 0.5mm thick 17W/mK is a very good thermal pad, but it still has a thermal resistance of 0.4(°C*cm^2/W) at about 50PSI. Since the BFL ASIC die is ~8mmx8mm, that means that with good pressure the thermal resistance of each chip is about 0.63°C/W. If you're dissipating 10W per ASIC, you'll have a 6.3°C temperature rise just in the thermal pad. The 0.5mm thick 11W/mK Fujipoly stuff is around 0.9(°C*cm^2/W) at the same conditions, meaning a 1.4°C/W temperature rise. Start going to the 6W/mK and 3W/mK stuff, and you'll find you're dumping a LOT of heat into the board. Chip Geek had our test board with no asics hooked up to a large programmable dummy load and was pulling 100A from it, he said while it warmed above ambient it stayed quite cool to the touch. If I use a 3W/mK thermal pad and pull similar power from it, the power supply components and PCB can actually get painful to the touch without good airflow over the board. Good thermal pads are bad, but bad thermal pads are really bad. You can mitigate a lot by using more airflow (just look at all the little heatsinks on the BFL Singles and how much air over the board they push to keep things cool), but just using a really good thermal pad to start with is best.

TIM Tidbit #4: Thermal pads might be bad, but thermal adhesive tape is terrible. Please don't use it, you might as well just leave the heatsink off. It works in low power applications or where you have a lot of surface area, but not at these power densities. The 3M 8810 0.25mm thick tape you see mounted to the bottom of a lot of press-on heatsinks has a manufacturer rated thermal resistance of 0.90(°C*in^2/W), or 5.8(°C*cm^2/W). That's 6.5 times worse than the Fujipoly 11W/mK pad that's twice as thick. They don't even work nearly as well as a gap filler. Please please please don't use thermal tape.

Overall, you should just use a good thermal pad, and use a good backplate so you can tighten the heatsink without flexing the board too much. If the units coming out of the assembly house are good (and we're hoping they are) you might be able to get away with grease and it will work really good. If you get one that has a low chip and you use grease instead of a pad and blow it up, that's on you. If you use adhesive tape instead of a pad and blow it up, that's really all on you.
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