The Coming Global Wealth Tax | Bitcointalksearch.org

AnonyMint

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Quote from: Rassah on December 15, 2013, 01:26:07 AM

Quote from: giantdragon on December 14, 2013, 11:22:25 PM

Quote from: EvilPanda on December 14, 2013, 10:54:12 PM

Right now probably 40% are against Putin and can't do much about it.

They are not so desperate yet to risk their lives. Don't forget about the perks Putin gives to some part of population (military, police, useless bureaucracy) to buy their loyalty.

Don't forget that the 10% with BTC will be the ones with enough money to give anonymous perks to the politicians that run this place.

With true anonymity (Bitcoin doesn't and can't have it, see below), then the politicians can hide their ill-gotten wealth too. So then they will not be afraid to rob the government blind, and government will collapse rapidly.

That is the perfect outcome, because I've shown mathematically that all prosperity is due to technological innovation (i.e. productivity increases) and small government getting out of the way.

Quote from: Rassah on December 14, 2013, 06:12:50 PM

Quote from: AnonyMint on December 13, 2013, 10:17:28 PM

And they make it clear that anyone that receives your coins in payment is going to receive the same treatment, thus your coins become unspendable.

Or whoever receives it sends it through a bitcoin mixer or CoinJoin, and the coins they end up with are no longer linked to be, and are spread among a dozen or more other random unknown people.

Quote

Without anonymity, you have nothing.

It's a good thing bitcoin has it then. You just have to work a little to get it.

I am going to school you again.

I have explained numerous times that mixers are basically useless if 99% of the users are not doing what is necessary to be anonymous, because then your new coins can be discovered with probabilities and a process of elimination.

Bitcoin does NOT have mandatory anonymity and thus it doesn't have anonymity at all.

Anonymity is an significant-minority-or-nothing proposition.

And if all of the significant-minority are tainted coins, then the authorities can just blacklist all the 1% or 10% that come out the other side of the mixer by the process of elimination.

For anonymity to work, the users in large part have to all be anonymous.

P.S. I've introduced ideas for physical Bitcoins in order to obtain more widespread anonymity.

Rassah

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Quote from: giantdragon on December 14, 2013, 11:22:25 PM

Quote from: EvilPanda on December 14, 2013, 10:54:12 PM

Right now probably 40% are against Putin and can't do much about it.

They are not so desperate yet to risk their lives. Don't forget about the perks Putin gives to some part of population (military, police, useless bureaucracy) to buy their loyalty.

Don't forget that the 10% with BTC will be the ones with enough money to give anonymous perks to the politicians that run this place.

giantdragon

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Quote from: EvilPanda on December 14, 2013, 10:54:12 PM

Right now probably 40% are against Putin and can't do much about it.

They are not so desperate yet to risk their lives. Don't forget about the perks Putin gives to some part of population (military, police, useless bureaucracy) to buy their loyalty.

EvilPanda

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Small Red and Bad

Quote from: giantdragon on December 14, 2013, 09:39:40 PM

Quote from: EvilPanda on December 14, 2013, 09:10:13 PM

10% is a significant number of people, enough to make their own party or destablize a country's economy.

In Russia in 1917 only ~2% of population were enough to overthrown the monarchy.

Right now probably 40% are against Putin and can't do much about it.

giantdragon

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Quote from: EvilPanda on December 14, 2013, 09:10:13 PM

10% is a significant number of people, enough to make their own party or destablize a country's economy.

In Russia in 1917 only ~2% of population were enough to overthrown the monarchy.

EvilPanda

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Small Red and Bad

Yeah, they will put all of us in jail. Kick out all the murderers and rapists to make room for people defending their money. This would mean protests like the ones in Ukraine right now.
My question is: let's assume only 10% of the population uses BTC and refuses to pay wealth tax what do you do with them? Lock them up and torture? 10% is a significant number of people, enough to make their own party or destablize a country's economy.

giantdragon

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Quote from: ?? on ??

And then they can put you in jail until you pay.

To apply key disclosure laws they have to prove that you really have private keys. Some encryption tools (e.g. TrueCrypt) can create hidden partitions which existence is impossible to prove.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

The worst thing we have where I live is corporate welfare. The mining barons dig the resources out of the ground and pay very little tax. The richest woman in the world Gina Rhinehardt last year received 4 billion dollars in welfare. This is the real welfare problem not paying people a living wage so they can feed their families.

Rassah

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 13, 2013, 10:17:28 PM

They waterboard you (or put you in "the hole" in maximum security prison like they did to Martin Armstrong) until you give up your passwords.

You know that as long as they don't have your password, you still have your money, so they will just continue to waste their time and money on you, and it will be waiting they're for you or your family when you get out. Or you program your money to be on a dead man's switch, with a delayed transaction that sends it to a trusted friend or family member if you don't create a new transaction, this voiding the old one, every month. Or you bite off your tongue, choke on your own blood, and no one gets anything.

Quote

And they make it clear that anyone that receives your coins in payment is going to receive the same treatment, thus your coins become unspendable.

Or whoever receives it sends it through a bitcoin mixer or CoinJoin, and the coins they end up with are no longer linked to be, and are spread among a dozen or more other random unknown people.

Quote

Without anonymity, you have nothing.

It's a good thing bitcoin has it then. You just have to work a little to get it.

AnonyMint

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Quote from: Rassah on December 13, 2013, 02:37:13 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2013, 03:45:54 PM

Even if bitcoin is not anonymous, people can still refuse to give out passwords, or send to unspendable accounts in protest. Confiscatable form of wealth will be dwindling fast.

And then they can put you in jail until you pay.

USD protester - Freeze your account, take your money, keep you poor and in jail. Despite spending lots of money to keep you in jail, they still get your money, so come out on top.
BTC protester - Huh

with your money, keep you in jail, you still have money to pay lawyers and buy off politicians. They spend money to keep you in jail, but get nothing in return. Long term, they'll just be losing money and pissing people off.

They waterboard you (or put you in "the hole" in maximum security prison like they did to Martin Armstrong) until you give up your passwords.

And they make it clear that anyone that receives your coins in payment is going to receive the same treatment, thus your coins become unspendable.

Without anonymity, you have nothing.

Rassah

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Rassah on December 12, 2013, 03:45:54 PM

Even if bitcoin is not anonymous, people can still refuse to give out passwords, or send to unspendable accounts in protest. Confiscatable form of wealth will be dwindling fast.

And then they can put you in jail until you pay.

USD protester - Freeze your account, take your money, keep you poor and in jail. Despite spending lots of money to keep you in jail, they still get your money, so come out on top.
BTC protester - Huh

with your money, keep you in jail, you still have money to pay lawyers and buy off politicians. They spend money to keep you in jail, but get nothing in return. Long term, they'll just be losing money and pissing people off.

Rassah

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Even if bitcoin is not anonymous, people can still refuse to give out passwords, or send to unspendable accounts in protest. Confiscatable form of wealth will be dwindling fast.

AnonyMint

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Net worth tax is coming because current debt is $150 trillion.

cr1776

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Quote from: Ekaros on December 08, 2013, 06:01:32 AM

Quote from: Rassah on December 05, 2013, 04:41:26 PM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on December 05, 2013, 01:00:08 PM

Face it, this should happen. The rich get ever richer and screw over the poor. The poor are paying for the failures of the banks whilst the rich earn ever more. They will tell us to be outraged, but why do we care if they take 25% of all wealth of everyone with over 5 million? It would only be a benefit to the masses, the 99% fight back!

Imagine, an end to austerity, national debts back to normal, lower taxes and it won't hurt anyone. Sounds good to me.

That would be quite horrible. For some reason 99% thinks that when a rish persoon has, say, $50mil, they are sitting on a huge pile of money bags with tons of paper in it. In truth, all that wealth is stored in various assets, like realestate, factories, machinery, and other business related stuff (even cash used to run the business). If you seize 25% of all the wealth from the 1%, you will likely force them to shut down and sell off 24.9% of all the businesses, and thus jobs, in the whole country.

How much is that wealth really in property or goods?

I belive most of it is in stocks etc. Which is just like having 10k BTC and saying you are worth 10 millions. Try to get rid of those and see the result...

Probably most is invested in assets, so to pay an asset tax as you point out would cause a large drop in prices.

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

you cant make that globaly but in parts of the world, yes. sad enough.

we will all pay for this mess, some more, some less.

Ekaros

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Quote from: Rassah on December 05, 2013, 04:41:26 PM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on December 05, 2013, 01:00:08 PM

Face it, this should happen. The rich get ever richer and screw over the poor. The poor are paying for the failures of the banks whilst the rich earn ever more. They will tell us to be outraged, but why do we care if they take 25% of all wealth of everyone with over 5 million? It would only be a benefit to the masses, the 99% fight back!

Imagine, an end to austerity, national debts back to normal, lower taxes and it won't hurt anyone. Sounds good to me.

That would be quite horrible. For some reason 99% thinks that when a rish persoon has, say, $50mil, they are sitting on a huge pile of money bags with tons of paper in it. In truth, all that wealth is stored in various assets, like realestate, factories, machinery, and other business related stuff (even cash used to run the business). If you seize 25% of all the wealth from the 1%, you will likely force them to shut down and sell off 24.9% of all the businesses, and thus jobs, in the whole country.

How much is that wealth really in property or goods?

I belive most of it is in stocks etc. Which is just like having 10k BTC and saying you are worth 10 millions. Try to get rid of those and see the result...

AnonyMint

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Quote from: film2240 on December 06, 2013, 07:00:13 PM

Can't they find any other alternative to boost their economies instead of this global tax?

Long-term no.

The only question is who pays for the debt write-down, the negative net worth masses or the upper middle class with positive net worth? Answer: bank robbers rob banks because that is where the money is.

99% versus the 1% baby! And we are the "1%".

More QE ending up as dollar bond issues in the developing world, which is just going to make the impending crash worse?

Hey socialism is peaking. Debt is peaking. The 3 decade ride down is going to be pay back for the 3 decades ride up in debt and freebies.

The masses (who vote for Obama and socialists in Europe) don't realize that if you destroy the net worth of society, everyone goes into a Dark Age. We create the businesses that employ them.

We are headed towards an outcome where the government tries to take care of everyone and steal from those who have anything. This is very, very, very, very bad and dangerous spiral into the Dark Age toilet.

film2240

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Quote from: cr1776 on December 06, 2013, 06:41:57 PM

Hi,
It is definitely possible, look at Cyprus. :-)

They say it is one-off, but the article also says that only gets us to 2008 debt levels. So, if they can pull it off once, it will happen again, it will just be a question of when then..

:-)

Quote from: film2240 on December 06, 2013, 06:23:14 PM

I wonder if this is even possible.I also wonder if all my money in the bank will be gone in the UK thanks to the tax or just a portion of it?I heard that it's a one off tax from the article so hopefully they won't be too difficult.

Uh oh.Looks like we'll have a hard time then since all our money could be taxed eventually.There seems to be no way out of this.It'll either pay up or face consequences.Will this affect just multinationals or will it affect everyone,including me? Can't they find any other alternative to boost their economies instead of this global tax?

cr1776

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Hi,
It is definitely possible, look at Cyprus. :-)

They say it is one-off, but the article also says that only gets us to 2008 debt levels. So, if they can pull it off once, it will happen again, it will just be a question of when then..

:-)

Quote from: film2240 on December 06, 2013, 06:23:14 PM

I wonder if this is even possible.I also wonder if all my money in the bank will be gone in the UK thanks to the tax or just a portion of it?I heard that it's a one off tax from the article so hopefully they won't be too difficult.

film2240

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I wonder if this is even possible.I also wonder if all my money in the bank will be gone in the UK thanks to the tax or just a portion of it?I heard that it's a one off tax from the article so hopefully they won't be too difficult.

Topic: The Coming Global Wealth Tax (Read 5070 times)