The Coming Global Wealth Tax - page 2.

knarzo

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 12:35:12 PM

Somebody farted?

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Rassah

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Re: The Coming Global Wealth Tax
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You have someone you can talk to? A relative? Or someone you have an emotional relationship with? You seem to be emotionally unstable.

Rassah

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 12:35:12 PM

Somebody farted?

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Rassah

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Re: The Coming Global Wealth Tax
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I do find your method of arguing amusing btw.

Anony: If you are wealthy, you can crash the bitcoin market by selling a chunk of your wealth, and then making money on the resulting panic.
Ras: Extremely improbable and difficult to pull off on an open parket, since your crashing will be competing with others waiting to buy your cheap coins.
Anony: If you are that rich, you can just own the exchange you are doing this on.
Ras: How would that stop your competitor from trading and competing with you right on your own exchange?
Anony: Sybil attacks! This wealthy person can make so many trades on their exchange, using fake identity trading bots, that they will max out government imposed daily trading limits!
Ras: Why can't competitors also use a sybil attack, and use lots of their own fake account bots to trade at the same time as you? Also, how do you cause a panic-induced market crash, if the first thing you do is literally freeze the market? (or at the least make it obvious that your exchange is severely broken)
Anony: I know how to fix the issue of wealthy people manipulating exchanges like that. Make a CPU-only coin. Because CPU-only coins will not need an exchange
Ras: Huh

*fart*

Yeah, it's things like that that make people not take you seriously.

AnonyMint

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Quote from: zimmah on December 05, 2013, 02:08:59 PM

but they will not rob me of my money, all of it is already in bitcoins.

If Bitcoin is a ponzi-bubble collapse, it could rob you instead.

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 12:34:36 PM

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 09:12:02 AM

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Quote from: CoinCube on December 04, 2013, 10:03:05 PM

Quote from: Operatr on December 04, 2013, 11:49:45 AM

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

Yes but that's no longer enough. Expect much more of this in the near future. After all how can you argue you should not contribute and ~~have most of what you own taken~~ help your government fix the economic crisis.

Inflation is 30-50% in the last few years for USD and EUR (Increase in M3) isn't that sufficient?

I alos think that a wealth tax doesn't just include fiat but also everything else INCLUDING Bitcoin. So the options will be either paying or tax evasion.

No because the debasement is not going to pay down debt. QE is ending up as dollar bond issues in the developing world, i.e. it is being used to increase debt.

Please learn to use correct terminology. Increases in the money supply are not inflation, they are debasement. M x V = P x Q. The Q can rise while M is, so no rise in P.

Excuse me? It's you and most of the rest of the world who are using wrong terminology. Inflation is the increase of total outstanding. So inflating gold would require making more gold. They trained you to believe inflation means something else to get you to accept their global scam but inflation is just that and it not 2-3% per year they lead you to believe.

Don't believe everything the governments tell you please.

Incorrect.

That's just incoherent babbling not really related to the issue at hand. An inflation in the supply of something means that the supply is higher. It is really not more complicated than that. Whatever fairy tale you choose to believe.

Incoherent to an idiot.

Amazing that you can't comprehend that when productivity (or output) rises prices decline. If money supply rises at same rate as productivity (or population growth and output), then prices do not rise and there is no inflation.

We actually had deflation in the 1800s even while the money supply was rising due to private banks creating fractional reserves out-of-thin-air from gold deposits.

You ignore the measured reality of what happened.

We're discussing terminology here. I'm using the original definition of inflation while you're using the newer scam-artist version. Prices are just a potential indirect consequence of inflation. Measuring inflation by looking at prices is like measuring mass by throwing it against a wall and looking at the damage. Using a scale is far more precise and effective.

Continue your ignorance. I won't stop you. Debasement is the original term for what you are erroneously renaming "inflation". If you say "monetary inflation" that is a sometimes acceptable replacement for "debasement", but as you see it causes dummies like you to reduce it to "inflation" which is ambiguous between "price inflation" and "monetary inflation" which are not the same thing.

Rassah

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on December 05, 2013, 02:00:08 PM

Face it, this should happen. The rich get ever richer and screw over the poor. The poor are paying for the failures of the banks whilst the rich earn ever more. They will tell us to be outraged, but why do we care if they take 25% of all wealth of everyone with over 5 million? It would only be a benefit to the masses, the 99% fight back!

Imagine, an end to austerity, national debts back to normal, lower taxes and it won't hurt anyone. Sounds good to me.

That would be quite horrible. For some reason 99% thinks that when a rich persoon has, say, $50mil, they are sitting on a huge pile of money bags with tons of paper in it. In truth, all that wealth is stored in various assets, like realestate, factories, machinery, and other business related stuff (even cash used to run the business). If you seize 25% of all the wealth from the 1%, you will likely force them to shut down and sell off 24.9% of all the businesses, and thus jobs, in the whole country.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: Jcw188 on December 05, 2013, 02:03:32 PM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on December 05, 2013, 02:00:08 PM

Face it, this should happen. The rich get ever richer and screw over the poor. The poor are paying for the failures of the banks whilst the rich earn ever more. They will tell us to be outraged, but why do we care if they take 25% of all wealth of everyone with over 5 million? It would only be a benefit to the masses, the 99% fight back!

Imagine, an end to austerity, national debts back to normal, lower taxes and it won't hurt anyone. Sounds good to me.

I can see the argument. If you do it to 1 country though, wouldn't that just like destroy that country's economic situation. It should probably be global vs. 1 country only. Not sure I'm in favor of it though, just saying should be global vs. 1 country. I think the logistics of this are impossible though, currently.

I don't think it will happen, it is much easier to print money until the system collapses, but I think it should. If one country did it, the rich would leave that country (stupidly, as that country would have already acted and not need to again). I expect that if it worked, other countries would follow, but probably with less sucess as people would have hidden their money much better after the first grab.

Thinking about it, the country that moves first would be the most sucessful...

zimmah

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Quote from: cr1776 on December 04, 2013, 09:00:48 AM

Quote from: Martijnvdc on December 04, 2013, 08:51:42 AM

There's no way that would happen without extreme riotting...

Look at what happened in Cyprus earlier this year. Lots of complaints, lots of people unhappy, lots of protests, but it still happened. Zeroday on these forums lots ~700k euros.

These trial balloons are the warnings of what the socialist parasitic politicians want to do.

exactly, they are using small countries first, and take notes of how the people react, and continue it on a bigger scale, robbing everyone of their belongings. but they will not rob me of my money, all of it is already in bitcoins.

Jcw188

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Carpe Diem

Quote from: NUFCrichard on December 05, 2013, 02:00:08 PM

Face it, this should happen. The rich get ever richer and screw over the poor. The poor are paying for the failures of the banks whilst the rich earn ever more. They will tell us to be outraged, but why do we care if they take 25% of all wealth of everyone with over 5 million? It would only be a benefit to the masses, the 99% fight back!

Imagine, an end to austerity, national debts back to normal, lower taxes and it won't hurt anyone. Sounds good to me.

I can see the argument. If you do it to 1 country though, wouldn't that just like destroy that country's economic situation. It should probably be global vs. 1 country only. Not sure I'm in favor of it though, just saying should be global vs. 1 country. I think the logistics of this are impossible though, currently.

Jcw188

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Quote from: Operatr on December 04, 2013, 11:49:45 AM

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

I think inflation hits the middle class more and creates further inequality. The rich have more investments which are growing faster than inflation. While poor ppl are stuck with a 1% interest rate.

NUFCrichard

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Face it, this should happen. The rich get ever richer and screw over the poor. The poor are paying for the failures of the banks whilst the rich earn ever more. They will tell us to be outraged, but why do we care if they take 25% of all wealth of everyone with over 5 million? It would only be a benefit to the masses, the 99% fight back!

Imagine, an end to austerity, national debts back to normal, lower taxes and it won't hurt anyone. Sounds good to me.

AnonyMint

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Somebody farted?

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Rassah

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AnonyMint

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 09:12:02 AM

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 09:01:14 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: CoinCube on December 04, 2013, 10:03:05 PM

Quote from: Operatr on December 04, 2013, 11:49:45 AM

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

Yes but that's no longer enough. Expect much more of this in the near future. After all how can you argue you should not contribute and ~~have most of what you own taken~~ help your government fix the economic crisis.

Inflation is 30-50% in the last few years for USD and EUR (Increase in M3) isn't that sufficient?

I alos think that a wealth tax doesn't just include fiat but also everything else INCLUDING Bitcoin. So the options will be either paying or tax evasion.

No because the debasement is not going to pay down debt. QE is ending up as dollar bond issues in the developing world, i.e. it is being used to increase debt.

Please learn to use correct terminology. Increases in the money supply are not inflation, they are debasement. M x V = P x Q. The Q can rise while M is, so no rise in P.

Excuse me? It's you and most of the rest of the world who are using wrong terminology. Inflation is the increase of total outstanding. So inflating gold would require making more gold. They trained you to believe inflation means something else to get you to accept their global scam but inflation is just that and it not 2-3% per year they lead you to believe.

Don't believe everything the governments tell you please.

Incorrect.

That's just incoherent babbling not really related to the issue at hand. An inflation in the supply of something means that the supply is higher. It is really not more complicated than that. Whatever fairy tale you choose to believe.

Incoherent to an idiot.

Amazing that you can't comprehend that when productivity (or output) rises prices decline. If money supply rises at same rate as productivity (or population growth and output), then prices do not rise and there is no inflation.

We actually had deflation in the 1800s even while the money supply was rising due to private banks creating fractional reserves out-of-thin-air from gold deposits.

You ignore the measured reality of what happened.

Rassah

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Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 03:24:44 AM

Well I am very happy to see this awareness.

So the remaining question is can Bitcoin save us?

And the answer is definitively "NO". That is precisely why I got so involved since April. If I felt Bitcoin was a solution, I would have adopted it when it was $50. I studied Bitcoin in depth in March, see my Bitcoin : The Digital Kill Switch thread.

...

Standard reply: please pay no attention to the FUD, this guy doesn't really understand how Bitcoin works.

Quote from: AnonyMint on December 04, 2013, 05:57:53 AM

Quote from: Rassah on December 03, 2013, 03:23:05 PM

Quote

Presumably if you are that rich of an insider, you already own the exchange too. You created an exchange because it was insane not to.

What would prevent a competitor from buying coins from you on your own exchange.

Exchange-owned Sybil identities to hit the government imposed limits in favor of the owner of the exchange.

When the access is very limited as it currently is with exchanges, this tells you that Bitcoin is a fraud.

I know the solution to this, it is a CPU-only coin and anonymity, so we don't need exchanges so much.

A CPU-only coin still needs an exchange to be useful, so that alone doesn't fix your problem.

pinnpe

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DumBlinDeaf

This only sounds, like more people moving over to Bitcoins.

Mass wealth destruction is good, that means that the super rich also have to bend over.
Hahahahahahaha

China's central bank banning Bitcoins, mass wealth destruction
it's all good news. Maybe some people will wake up or get all their shit taken like in greece

AnonyMint

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 09:01:14 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: CoinCube on December 04, 2013, 10:03:05 PM

Quote from: Operatr on December 04, 2013, 11:49:45 AM

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

Yes but that's no longer enough. Expect much more of this in the near future. After all how can you argue you should not contribute and ~~have most of what you own taken~~ help your government fix the economic crisis.

Inflation is 30-50% in the last few years for USD and EUR (Increase in M3) isn't that sufficient?

I alos think that a wealth tax doesn't just include fiat but also everything else INCLUDING Bitcoin. So the options will be either paying or tax evasion.

No because the debasement is not going to pay down debt. QE is ending up as dollar bond issues in the developing world, i.e. it is being used to increase debt.

Please learn to use correct terminology. Increases in the money supply are not inflation, they are debasement. M x V = P x Q. The Q can rise while M is, so no rise in P.

Excuse me? It's you and most of the rest of the world who are using wrong terminology. Inflation is the increase of total outstanding. So inflating gold would require making more gold. They trained you to believe inflation means something else to get you to accept their global scam but inflation is just that and it not 2-3% per year they lead you to believe.

Don't believe everything the governments tell you please.

Incorrect.

AnonyMint

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Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: CoinCube on December 04, 2013, 10:03:05 PM

Quote from: Operatr on December 04, 2013, 11:49:45 AM

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

Yes but that's no longer enough. Expect much more of this in the near future. After all how can you argue you should not contribute and ~~have most of what you own taken~~ help your government fix the economic crisis.

Inflation is 30-50% in the last few years for USD and EUR (Increase in M3) isn't that sufficient?

I alos think that a wealth tax doesn't just include fiat but also everything else INCLUDING Bitcoin. So the options will be either paying or tax evasion.

No because the debasement is not going to pay down debt. QE is ending up as dollar bond issues in the developing world, i.e. it is being used to increase debt.

Please learn to use correct terminology. Increases in the money supply are not inflation, they are debasement. M x V = P x Q. The Q can rise while M is, so no rise in P.

Quote from: AnonyMint on December 05, 2013, 08:34:15 AM

Quote from: Rampion on December 05, 2013, 06:29:12 AM

Sorry but NO - most of "our" countries debt is PRIVATE debt, this is the main problem, and it's completely unrelated to "state sponsored education" - the public debt of Germany or even Spain or Portugal is roughly the same as in the US, the problem are the fucking banks who go in debt to finance mortgages that fuel the housing bubbles and the households that go in debt for the most stupid and innecessary things (a new car, a new TV, new furniture, etc.).

The big difference between Europe's governments debt and US government debt is that Government money in Europe is mostly spent in public services and not in criminal wars.

You don't understand economics.

Private debt means an elevated level of commerce and thus tax payments pumped up by debt. When the debt write-down comes (which hasn't been allowed yet), then the government debts will skyrocket.

Also the interest rates have been held artificially low (see a devastating chart) by the central banks. This is just allowing the aggregate debts and misallocation of capital and human lives to increase. When the interest rates go back up to normal levels, the debts of the governments are going to skyrocket in a runaway spiral to apocalypse.

Everyone in power knows this. They are planning to confiscate all private wealth to pay for the write-down. Merkel lied to get elect, then immediately after federalized the German banks to the EU. It is going to be an all-for-one-and-one-for-all collapse. Everyone will pay their "fair share", hahaha. Stupid socialists deserve it.

You have no where to hide. Certainly not Bitcoin.

You will pay dearly for having lived in that debt-based, state-sponsored socialism.

P.S. it ironic how Europeans comfort themselves with notions of how their governments are less rapacious. Hilter's government was also so caring in the beginning while it was printing money for universal health care. You all never learn your lesson about collectivism and always come back for sloppy seconds, thirds, fourths, ...

AnonyMint

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Well I am very happy to see this awareness.

So the remaining question is can Bitcoin save us?

And the answer is definitively "NO". That is precisely why I got so involved since April. If I felt Bitcoin was a solution, I would have adopted it when it was $50. I studied Bitcoin in depth in March, see my Bitcoin : The Digital Kill Switch thread.

1. Anonymity and coin taint are insoluble in Bitcoin. Most all of you have not thought this out deeply. You think some VPNs and Tor have solved your problem, and you are highly mistaken.

2. Bitcoin does not have the required solution to the selfish-mining attack and thus can be taken over with as little as 25% of the hash rate. Many pools have that.

3. Bitcoin does nothing to limit the size of pools.

4. Pools are subject to share withholding attacks.

5. Bitcoin is vulnerable to takeover with the Transactions Withholding Attack.

6. Bitcoin's funding for mining dies proportionally (to market cap) as coin rewards diminish, unless we want transaction fees to be huge and/or transaction volume increases radically. Thus the incentive to attack is always increasing as the relative cost (to mcap) to attack is always declining.

7. Bitcoin is controlled by a few exchanges, which are likely controlled by the key owners of Bitcoin:

Quote from: AnonyMint on December 04, 2013, 05:57:53 AM

Quote from: Rassah on December 03, 2013, 03:23:05 PM

Quote

Presumably if you are that rich of an insider, you already own the exchange too. You created an exchange because it was insane not to.

What would prevent a competitor from buying coins from you on your own exchange.

Exchange-owned Sybil identities to hit the government imposed limits in favor of the owner of the exchange.

When the access is very limited as it currently is with exchanges, this tells you that Bitcoin is a fraud.

I know the solution to this, it is a CPU-only coin and anonymity, so we don't need exchanges so much.

Etc, etc, etc...

CoinCube

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Quote from: Operatr on December 04, 2013, 11:49:45 AM

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

Yes but that's no longer enough. Expect much more of this in the near future. After all how can you argue you should not contribute and ~~have most of what you own taken~~ help your government fix the economic crisis.

Operatr

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www.DonateMedia.org

There is already a global wealth tax, its called inflation.

BitchicksHusband

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By the way, stuff like this is exactly why Americans like owning guns...

BitchicksHusband

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Quote from: ashaw596 on December 04, 2013, 11:08:11 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Wealth taxes are the natural and logical consequence of irresponsible deficit spending

Bitcoins are a natural and obvious hedge against govt sponsored theft

The case rests...

I disagree that theres anything logical about it. It might theoretically redistribute the wealth (which i guess would theoretically fix things), however, impossible to implement and as if offshore bank accounts weren't enough, we have gold, bitcoins, and dummy coorporations. Impossible to implement fairly and would drive capital investment as FAR AWAY as possible.

My points is that even without Bitcoins, they would never implement something so stupid.

All it does is redistribute the wealth from rich people who aren't IMF bankers to rich people who are...

Topic: The Coming Global Wealth Tax - page 2. (Read 5046 times)