Topic: The economic model behind Bitcoin is flawed - page 7. (Read 14061 times)

It is going too far to say that the economy should have ethical actors?
It is called political economy because the state is a big player and you cannot separate the politics of the state from its influence on the economy.
And in the U.S. we have illegal debtors prisons, mass surveillance, indefinite detention, and the largest population of prisoners on the planet all thanks to the bankers who brought about this system (of legalized slavery). I would post details about how exactly it got this way, but I doubt you will read any of my sources.

I don't care about politics in this topic. Taking your words to their logical conclusion, we could say, for example, that the Bitcoin economic model is less evil (or just more benign, wtf) than that of fiat (or the other way round), right? I understand that you kinkily perverted and twisted the notion of slavery as it fitted your propaganda, but with this you seem to have gone too far...

Failure is success and war is definitely peace, wow

Did you miss that I said today? Its drawbacks are fairly well known (which I also mentioned, by the way). Do you see only what your eyes want to see, huh? And no, Bitcoin doesn't cut it (as a better system)...

In fact, as of now it is a parasite living off fiat systems across the world

This is human's adaptive nature, they usually accept what exists as best. Have you seen those north korean women meeting their leader? They would gratitude to even cry



Similarly, first you have a group of banker invented fiat money system, then you have a group of economists crying that this is the best system in the world

Ethics has to be applied to politics to be of any value, so therefore philosophy and politics apply to political economy.
Economic systems cannot be isolated from their political milieu and the political system must be ethical to be justified.
So if the (political) economy is not ethically sound, then the economic model is flawed ab initio.

So do you have any questions to the fiat model itself? I don't quite get your point. The fact that it can be and is heavily abused doesn't in the least take from the fact that it is the best monetary system in existence today from an economic stand-point. And ethics cannot be applied to it since it is simply an economic model. It lies beyond your dilemma of the ends (not) justifying the means. I don't know if this category can be applied to a model at all...

Can we say that one model is more evil (or less benign) than another?

Virtually all nations have a central bank based upon the fiat model, and all are controlled by the same cartel.
So what about the ethical model behind today's USD? Is it not grossly flawed?
Here are some of the results of the slavery system that has been imposed upon America:

Which country? I don't live in the US, so I can't possibly access the Treasury even if I wanted to. Does this alone make me into a slave too, wtf?

Lol, you are talking as if you were the Collector and I were going to sell my soul to Satan. When in fact you are pretty much talking bullshit. In Ancient times there had been real bloody slavery (I don't think the Medieval times were a lot different in this aspect), and, ironically, quite under the "sound" money system...

We are all slaves to our own nature, before all

So in your opinion it is OK to enslave--so long as the ends justify the means?
In my opinion, ethics and philosophy should influence the political structure which will dictate the nature of the economy. I believe in natural rights, so my opinion is that slavery is immoral and the present slavery system cannot be justified. What do you have to say about that?

You have not educated yourself about how the banking system really works in this country. I suggest a careful examination of the reading material that I posted earlier, in particular the flow chart labeled "loan accounting reveals the true creditor" which is linked from the HJR 192 site. The Treasury was supposed to belong to the people, not private elitist bankers. Until you can access the Treasury for yourself, you are a slave who cannot access your own value. Everywhere in the USA the peoples' rights are being ignored; literally every one of the 10 Amendments have been and still are being grossly violated on a national scale and particularly the ubiquitous crimes involving illegal "bills of attainder" and debtors' prisons are a direct result of the monetary system which by all appearances has taken over the original justice system that was designed for this country; that is because slaves have no rights and the people have not educated themselves; it is obvious that a slavery system has been imposed upon the populace. Your defense of the slavers is an apparent case of Stockholm Syndrome.

As I can see you decided to ignore the fact that "slaves to fiat" turn out to live longer and, on average, better than "slaves" (well, adherents) to "sound" money. Your question is meaningless since under slavery slave owners and slavers (i.e. sellers of slaves) are the primary beneficiaries...

But I think you are grossly misusing the term

Right, I told you the answer   ; the fiat system is based on slavery; we live in a dulocracy.
In all slavery systems: over time the slaves are made to work harder for less, this fact is a result of the ignorance of the masses within the political structure (i.e. dulocracy) and it has nothing to do with technology.
I detect some sarcasm in your reply; what is the purpose? You need proof that you are a slave?
Since you are promoting slavery as the best system "economically", I am entitled to ask who benefits and what exactly is meant by "economically".

This is not a topic about inflation vs deflation. If you feel inclined to talk about this issue, there is a special thread sticked right in this sub-forum. Germany lost in WWI (and in WWII, for the record) and had to pay reparations which it simply couldn't pay out. The ultimate fiasco of its fiat currency was due to the failure of the state before anything else...

You don't see the forest for the trees

Inflation is not good for a currency. Here is the chart of the German Mark at time of the Weihmar Republic:



You can of course argue that wages rise but for how long can wage scale along with inflation? If inflation out scales the wages there is an enormous catastrophe waiting for us. I think a debt based currency system will always collapse at some point.

So inflation-adjusted wages remain essentially the same. Thereby, the real purchasing power of the US dollar didn't change a lot (in terms of hourly wages in the US). That is, the hourly work can buy you the same amount of basic goods...

And in 1964 you just couldn't buy a lot of useful things like cell phones or personal computers

Depends. The dollar has lost a lot of value over time.  These are the average hourly wages in the US:

No, I don't actually need to ask anyone living prior to Nixon, lol. Why? Because I already know the answer. Since the life was so much more fun in those good old days. Even the grass was greener back then...

And the light was definitely brighter, amen

Here is a definitive conclusion:
Ask anyone who was earning a wage prior to Nixon's default on the currency (the end of sound money)
about how much they earned and how much their purchasing power was.
They will all tell you that they had money to burn even though the wages were miniscule.
Nowadays most people are just barely getting by; life was better with sound money.
Basically, their wages were in silver dollars, so one dollar was an ounce of silver (about $15-$17).
The value of labor has obviously been stolen from the workers by the debasing of the currency;
this is what happens in all slavery systems: over time the slaves are made to work harder for less.

As far as living standards, the Fed caused the Great Depression and the next crisis is just around the corner. Wealth has not "trickled down"; inequality and social mobility are important measures of the standard of living and these were clearly better during the sound money eras of the past.

There is no economic system that is flawless, so we have to choose the system which has least flaws. That's why I choose Bitcoin over fiat money. Do you suggest me a better monetary system?

But wages did get increased too. Thereby, the dollar purchasing power alone is not enough to draw any definitive conclusions, right?