The EU wants transparency on Cryptocurrencies - page 5.

Mpamaegbu

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 14, 2018, 11:29:14 AM

In simple words, they actually want wallet providers to require more information from us, similar to banks.

Could this ever happen?

To that in bold I say a big Yes! That is the excess for which most exchanges and ICOs now require a compulsory KYC, either during registration or during withdrawals. I know this may defile the secrecy bitcoin and cryptocurrency stand for but doing that will expectedly be for the overall interest of the crypto industry.

If these issues bothering on terrorism and money laundering are what make some countries kick against the cryptocurrency, then these countries should open up and regulate the industry in their respective homes, rather than clamp down on this emerging technology.

DevelopmentBank

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Quote from: trumper on April 14, 2018, 11:50:59 AM

I think because of that monero cannot be listed on coinbase etc. But rather on decentralized exchanges. It may make them less valuable in the future, I don't think they will be valuable while no central authority sympathises it.

I argue that it may instead actually make Monero more valuable. It goes to show that Monero lives up to the original ideals and goals behind cryptocurrencies. Many people will buy and continue to use it because of the privacy it affords. Privacy has value, otherwise how different is crypto from banks.

pvk444

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 15, 2018, 07:17:43 PM

Quote from: pvk444 on April 15, 2018, 05:59:27 PM

...

Assume you are a business. You only sell against bitcoin, but the bills (eg electricity, web hosting, wages, taxes etc) are in USD, so you will need to exchange the btc income for usd and move that usd to your bank account to pay the bills. The regulator can force banks not to accept any usd tranfers from any cryptoexchange without proof of providence.

I get your point, if you actually withdraw money from the exchange into your bank account, you are bound to be caught and taxed one day. However, there are other ways to exchange Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, via face-to-face deals, this is the minority though to be honest but my point is that it can still be bypassed. If these regulations do pass, then they will probably start catching up most of the transactions/money laundering coming through banks.

You are right that it can be bypassed, but not in a scalable, maintainable way. Let's be honest, if we only talk about the occasional transaction, then there is no problem with regulation, but the cryptos will remain an unimportant toy. As soon as you want to run a serious business, or as soon as you want the majority of your income come from cryptos, these alternative channels will quickly become inoperable.

Also, even if you are able to accumulate wealth outside of a regulated system, it would be immensely difficult to use that wealth. The reintegration of the usd you managed to pull out of crypto will be made difficult, as at some point questions about the source of the money would arise inevitably.

Thus, I just don't see a way around it.

gezhid008

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If the government can regulate the currency, I think it will attract more investors.

But this is not acceptable for any authentication of any cryptocurrency. Many people respect and love their privacy.

Tynovten_

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Along with bitcoin continues to grow, speculation also continue to be created. Their drive to create laws is something that deserves for appreciation, they say in order to prevent the financing of terrorism.

This is a good thing, but it takes a lot of research to know that.

The new laws will make first will be directed toward terrorism and might be directed toward a wider range especially tax.

v3liana

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 14, 2018, 11:29:14 AM

Stumbled upon this article today.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20180404STO00913/plenary-vote-stricter-eu-rules-on-money-laundering-and-terrorism-financing

According to the European Parliament, in order to fight money laundering and terrorism financing, they proposed a new legislation to regulate cryptocurrencies. Quoting from the article:

Quote

The new legislation would also require virtual currency exchange platforms and custodian wallet providers to exercise due diligence and end the anonymity associated with such exchanges. “Now we say that platform providers and those who keep bitcoins in their wallet need to know their customers just as banks do. It is quite revolutionary,” explains Sargentini.

In simple words, they actually want wallet providers to require more information from us, similar to banks.

What are your thoughts on this? Could this ever happen?

i believe this is will happen cause goverment somehow wanted to control economic aspect and they wanted to do AML. Regulation is inevitable and its good for development of cryptocurrency.

Menawi12

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Its really bad how they push it on our own wallet. I think its hard to happen because as we know that bitcoin is open source and its decentralized. If that regulation on exchanges its still ok but if that happen on our own wallet, i am believe that because of banks lobby

Noelbetty12

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These could have an impact to the market. We don't know yet if these regulations would take away anonymity out of the equation. If it will, certainly many will have problems using it. Many will fear getting taxed or be made known to the public with their money.

pitiflin

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Quote from: crzy on April 14, 2018, 06:08:18 PM

I still hope that KYC will be used in good things and I know EU can’t control this market since exchanges are beyond their jurisdiction. Maybe EU wants to regulate cryptocurrency that will benefit them in the long run.

Yeah EU, no every fucking country wants to do that.
And what makes you think that exchanges are beyond their jurisdiction? If there are any serious issues, the EU can subpoena the scammer or anyone who did some shady shit in EU related to cryptocurrencies.
Do you even know what kyc is? It is supposed to be used for good things but you can always stay anonymous, though you would have to be smart for it.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: pvk444 on April 15, 2018, 05:59:27 PM

Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 15, 2018, 07:21:39 AM

Quote from: pvk444 on April 15, 2018, 02:25:07 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The financing of money laundering and terrorism is a huge problem all over the world, we know that but i think the demands of the European Parliament are not related to these issues, they are just excuses. They want our information because they want to manage our money, it's their job.

Assuming these regulations would be implemented, how would they "manage our money"?

I actually find really hard to even pass these regulations due to the nature of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. It's almost impossible to track our every move while at the same time there are several ways to store your funds offline, supposing the governments could actually track online storage/wallets. I don't doubt that something won't happen towards the regulation of crypto, buy I do doubt its effectivity.

Not that hard at all. Regulator just has to make sure that no money flows into or out of cryptocurrencies without the transparency of transactions.

They don't need to track your movements directly. If there is, however, no way to take money out of cryptocurrency without transparency, such transparency will be enforced indirectly.

Assume you are a business. You only sell against bitcoin, but the bills (eg electricity, web hosting, wages, taxes etc) are in USD, so you will need to exchange the btc income for usd and move that usd to your bank account to pay the bills. The regulator can force banks not to accept any usd tranfers from any cryptoexchange without proof of providence.

I get your point, if you actually withdraw money from the exchange into your bank account, you are bound to be caught and taxed one day. However, there are other ways to exchange Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, via face-to-face deals, this is the minority though to be honest but my point is that it can still be bypassed. If these regulations do pass, then they will probably start catching up most of the transactions/money laundering coming through banks.

shams

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I have listened to this news and I think this is a good step for the county as they are making bitcoin legal and asking people to provide more information to them about their bitcoin and all I think it’s a good step to avoid money laundering.

4abrec

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 14, 2018, 11:29:14 AM

Stumbled upon this article today.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20180404STO00913/plenary-vote-stricter-eu-rules-on-money-laundering-and-terrorism-financing

According to the European Parliament, in order to fight money laundering and terrorism financing, they proposed a new legislation to regulate cryptocurrencies. Quoting from the article:

Quote

The new legislation would also require virtual currency exchange platforms and custodian wallet providers to exercise due diligence and end the anonymity associated with such exchanges. “Now we say that platform providers and those who keep bitcoins in their wallet need to know their customers just as banks do. It is quite revolutionary,” explains Sargentini.

In simple words, they actually want wallet providers to require more information from us, similar to banks.

What are your thoughts on this? Could this ever happen?

This is a very correct government action! I believe that transparency should be, but within the reasonable, that is not everyone needs to know about my income.

bamboylee

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Is there a way they could implement kyc on wallets? If the wallets are not based on EU then they will not comply with that regulation.

KYC on exchanges should be because there are lots of movements of money in there. But KYC on wallets os an overkill.

hao2067755834

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This is certainly going to happen, and there is a lot of terrorism in Europe, and they are likely to be able to move money through digital encryption.

The European Union wants to monitor digital encryption to prevent criminal activity.

jeronimosuykens

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Quote from: pvk444 on April 15, 2018, 02:25:07 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The financing of money laundering and terrorism is a huge problem all over the world, we know that but i think the demands of the European Parliament are not related to these issues, they are just excuses. They want our information because they want to manage our money, it's their job.

Assuming these regulations would be implemented, how would they "manage our money"?

I see this problem in two different directions.
First, if there are legal regulations on cryptocurrency, this market will be secured and investors will be more secure when entering the market, which will make the market grow stronger.
Second, if managed, the cryptocurrency and confidentiality will no longer exist because the government will control the transaction, which will upset the unwilling investors.

magneto

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Not surprising that they are trying to do this, legislations on exchange regulation is already pretty draconian, and they are just trying to do the same on wallets.

Bitcoin itself is completely transparent, much more transparent than the fiat banking system. But obviously, people on the bitcoin network cannot be identified by anything other than an address, which can be created infinitely.

Services such as exchanges and hosted wallets can definitely track their customers. However, it's impossible for them to conduct any sort of KYC/AML on you if you hold your private keys and you sign your own transactions, since the bitcoin network itself does not require KYC. All in all, avoid hosted wallets and exchanges as much as possible for storing funds.

pvk444

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 15, 2018, 07:21:39 AM

Quote from: pvk444 on April 15, 2018, 02:25:07 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The financing of money laundering and terrorism is a huge problem all over the world, we know that but i think the demands of the European Parliament are not related to these issues, they are just excuses. They want our information because they want to manage our money, it's their job.

Assuming these regulations would be implemented, how would they "manage our money"?

I actually find really hard to even pass these regulations due to the nature of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. It's almost impossible to track our every move while at the same time there are several ways to store your funds offline, supposing the governments could actually track online storage/wallets. I don't doubt that something won't happen towards the regulation of crypto, buy I do doubt its effectivity.

Not that hard at all. Regulator just has to make sure that no money flows into or out of cryptocurrencies without the transparency of transactions.

They don't need to track your movements directly. If there is, however, no way to take money out of cryptocurrency without transparency, such transparency will be enforced indirectly.

Assume you are a business. You only sell against bitcoin, but the bills (eg electricity, web hosting, wages, taxes etc) are in USD, so you will need to exchange the btc income for usd and move that usd to your bank account to pay the bills. The regulator can force banks not to accept any usd tranfers from any cryptoexchange without proof of providence.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: pvk444 on April 15, 2018, 02:25:07 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The financing of money laundering and terrorism is a huge problem all over the world, we know that but i think the demands of the European Parliament are not related to these issues, they are just excuses. They want our information because they want to manage our money, it's their job.

Assuming these regulations would be implemented, how would they "manage our money"?

I actually find really hard to even pass these regulations due to the nature of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. It's almost impossible to track our every move while at the same time there are several ways to store your funds offline, supposing the governments could actually track online storage/wallets. I don't doubt that something won't happen towards the regulation of crypto, buy I do doubt its effectivity.

pvk444

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Activity: 252

Merit: 47

Quote from: ?? on ??

The financing of money laundering and terrorism is a huge problem all over the world, we know that but i think the demands of the European Parliament are not related to these issues, they are just excuses. They want our information because they want to manage our money, it's their job.

Assuming these regulations would be implemented, how would they "manage our money"?

Indrawan77

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Wow the rules really strict, and we all need to submit documents to be able to used crypto, in the end crypto will be like fiat, nothing special anymore, this could drive away the investors, buy this is a logical decision, and the government is going to used money laundering reason to force the regulation, after the documents submission the next things will be taxing crypto users

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