The fees are crazy, 420 satoshis/byte, WHY? - page 2.

Boseda

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Quote from: Thekool1s on May 20, 2017, 02:39:12 AM

Quote

stop using BTC all together is another possibility

Bitcoin was intended to be a tool for the masses, Not just privileged people. It was made to free people from the extortion of the banks.. Right now the miners have become the big banks.. And bitcoin is becoming more of a tool for elites.. If this continues and no consensus reached.. Bitcoin will lose its purpose..

I agree with this.

Bitcoin started as a cheap and fast service. Now it's slow and expensive. It's becoming like bank wires.

Bitcoin has already lost most of its appeal in our crypto-community, but because the price is so high many seem to ignore it. Many people here are sick and tired of this situation and want a solution now.

If this situation continues, I think it's gonna die, as I already said in my previous thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-is-gonna-die-soon-1917152

To be more clear, Bitcoin is gonna die as an everyday payment system. It will be used only by a wealthy elite to buy yatch and supercars. Totally losing its purpose...

Thekool1s

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on May 20, 2017, 03:29:25 AM

Even though the fees is increasing, I see it as a positive sign yet it is something that we should find a solution for. More and more people are showing faith in bitcoin and thus the network is getting overloaded with the transactions, thus the fees are getting higher and higher. Even though the current fees are far less than the cost of sending funds through fiat, I don't think we should take this for granted. I believe that if can do something for it soon then within a couple of years we would touch $5K on the price chart and exponential growth in the user base too.

Nope, it is not because of people showing faith in bitcoin, It is because of the spam transactions which are being done on the Blockchain. And Transactions fees right now are over the roof, I paid $6.4 to transfer 80 bucks and that too at 103 sat/byte, Now if i wanted to get confirmations in good time, the fees would have been around 18.3$.. Can you exactly tell me which Online payment Processor charges $6.4 to transfer 80 bucks and that too within 7+ days? None! Bitcoin is only good for HODL right now.

Quote

I thought that it's already lost its purpose. The current fee is already crazy and now appear many accelerators which require you to pay some amount of bitcoin which is highly expensive compared to the normal fee for the exchange of faster confirmation. I know the accelerator's providers aren't forcing you but for those who are in need of their money have no choice but to use this service.
Such a pity for the faucet hunters who more likely to have bigger transaction size while their earning are pretty low.

I agree its not mandatory, But here is a thing. https://pushtx.btc.com is charging me $70 to push my 80 buck transaction.. and $5.4 for a $30 transaction... Talk about extortion..

Dudeperfect

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Even though the fees is increasing, I see it as a positive sign yet it is something that we should find a solution for. More and more people are showing faith in bitcoin and thus the network is getting overloaded with the transactions, thus the fees are getting higher and higher. Even though the current fees are far less than the cost of sending funds through fiat, I don't think we should take this for granted. I believe that if can do something for it soon then within a couple of years we would touch $5K on the price chart and exponential growth in the user base too.

TastyChillySauce00

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Thekool1s on May 20, 2017, 02:39:12 AM

Quote

stop using BTC all together is another possibility

Bitcoin was intended to be a tool for the masses, Not just privileged people. It was made to free people from the extortion of the banks.. Right now the miners have become the big banks.. And bitcoin is becoming more of a tool for elites.. If this continues and no consensus reached.. Bitcoin will lose its purpose..

I thought that it's already lost its purpose. The current fee is already crazy and now appear many accelerators which require you to pay some amount of bitcoin which is highly expensive compared to the normal fee for the exchange of faster confirmation. I know the accelerator's providers aren't forcing you but for those who are in need of their money have no choice but to use this service.
Such a pity for the faucet hunters who more likely to have bigger transaction size while their earning are pretty low.

salmanahmedone

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Quote from: Thekool1s on May 20, 2017, 02:39:12 AM

Quote

stop using BTC all together is another possibility

Bitcoin was intended to be a tool for the masses, Not just privileged people. It was made to free people from the extortion of the banks.. Right now the miners have become the big banks.. And bitcoin is becoming more of a tool for elites.. If this continues and no consensus reached.. Bitcoin will lose its purpose..

I think fee are still not of a issue as it is not much if you consider bitcoins benefit and also the fact there is no taxes involved in it. Bitcoin is not only for the elite as you can have a smallest portion of the coin that is Satoshi., if you cant afford to buy a full Bitcoin.

ynef

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Paid 120 per byte and transaction was stuck for 5 days until it was eventually rejected.

hase0278

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Quote from: Thekool1s on May 20, 2017, 02:39:12 AM

Quote

stop using BTC all together is another possibility

Bitcoin was intended to be a tool for the masses, Not just privileged people. It was made to free people from the extortion of the banks.. Right now the miners have become the big banks.. And bitcoin is becoming more of a tool for elites.. If this continues and no consensus reached.. Bitcoin will lose its purpose..

Well we as users don't want that to happen and I know the elites does not want that to happen too so eventually a consensus will be made to fix the problem we have now. I just hope the consensus that will be made will be the best solution to the high fee and long confirmation times so that bitcoin can continue to serve its purpose. For now I will just wait for confirmation even if it takes long rather than paying high fees it will get confirmed anyway.

Thekool1s

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Change is in your hands

Quote

stop using BTC all together is another possibility

Bitcoin was intended to be a tool for the masses, Not just privileged people. It was made to free people from the extortion of the banks.. Right now the miners have become the big banks.. And bitcoin is becoming more of a tool for elites.. If this continues and no consensus reached.. Bitcoin will lose its purpose..

CryptoDatabase

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 19, 2017, 09:43:08 PM

Quote from: CryptoDatabase on May 18, 2017, 10:24:29 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 18, 2017, 10:15:38 PM

Quote from: Apollo777 on May 17, 2017, 10:48:36 PM

I agree it's getting quite ridiculous. Sent $10 worth of BTC to a friend to teach him crypto and I ended getting sticked $2.34ish in fees.

Stop sending small transaction on the blockchain if it is not that important. We should start to use Bitcoin more efficiently and stop taking the blockchain for granted. If you really need to send $10 to a friend use fiat or paypal. Or do what Roger Ver did, start using an altcoin.

Your comment is straight up retarded bud, I can send someone $100000 and it could very easily cost 1% of the fee a person sending $10 might face depending on how many inputs it receives.

This forum is getting really old with people like you tossing out dumbass suggestions for others when you don't even know how BTC even works.

Ok then what do you suggest? We have no choice but to adjust to what is going on in the network. Why would I keep sending $10 transactions on the blockchain when it would be easier and faster to send them to a friend through cash or paypal account to account transfer? If it is not worth using the blockchain then do not use it.

You keep referring to amounts of money but you aren't understanding that the amount of money sent is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you send 100000 BTC or 0.00000001 BTC, the only thing that matters is the size of the transaction itself. Not sure what else I can say to help you understand that the amount of money or BTC being sent doesn't matter one single bit, nada.. nothing.. zilch.

Reducing transaction size is one way to solve this dilemma, increasing block size is another, decreasing block times is yet another, stop using BTC all together is another possibility, etc etc. There are many solutions to fix this problem, the issue is nobody can agree on anything

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: CryptoDatabase on May 18, 2017, 10:24:29 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 18, 2017, 10:15:38 PM

Quote from: Apollo777 on May 17, 2017, 10:48:36 PM

I agree it's getting quite ridiculous. Sent $10 worth of BTC to a friend to teach him crypto and I ended getting sticked $2.34ish in fees.

Stop sending small transaction on the blockchain if it is not that important. We should start to use Bitcoin more efficiently and stop taking the blockchain for granted. If you really need to send $10 to a friend use fiat or paypal. Or do what Roger Ver did, start using an altcoin.

Your comment is straight up retarded bud, I can send someone $100000 and it could very easily cost 1% of the fee a person sending $10 might face depending on how many inputs it receives.

This forum is getting really old with people like you tossing out dumbass suggestions for others when you don't even know how BTC even works.

Ok then what do you suggest? We have no choice but to adjust to what is going on in the network. Why would I keep sending $10 transactions on the blockchain when it would be easier and faster to send them to a friend through cash or paypal account to account transfer? If it is not worth using the blockchain then do not use it.

bitbob82

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Quote from: Siren on May 17, 2017, 05:00:40 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: scambust on May 17, 2017, 04:19:45 PM

In one hour, the average blocks found are around 4 - 5 blocks, sometimes less. The current transactions per second averages around 4 TX. That's 14,400 transactions in one hour. They can only fit about 2,200 TX per block, which means 3,400 transactions will have to wait for the next hour. And it accumulates over time.

If we kick the can further down the road, the devs can increase the blocksize to 1.3mb per block and there will be no delays for everyone. I don't know why they can't do this sooner. I'm sure everyone will agree delayed transactions are bad.

The reasoning is consensus, this one word will keep changes from happening. Most will agree there is a need to allow more tx, now your idea of 1.3mb will be countered by, let's just do segwit, let's do BU , let's do 2mb, let's do 4mb.

Issue is people start acting like factions and attack each other and say my way is the only way as Bitcoin can go only one way.

Actually is a civil war already. I guess the general public will have to suffer with all of this war going on between the 2 factions. Consensus will not be met unfortunately and no one will give an inch. Delayed transaction are really bad specially if we are heading to new level with Japan and other nation accepting bitcoin now.

Even the transactions to those countries have not been started and we are here to pay more what if the number of the transactions which will definitely increase after a time, we will be forced to pay more than what the current is discussed? It is not impressive.

stergium

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Carlton Banks on May 17, 2017, 03:57:34 PM

The bitcoinfees,21,co website, and mostly everyone's brain, is broken.

Look at the graph on bitcoinfees.21.co, it's pretty clear to see that 120 satoshis per byte is what you need to pay, no different to last week. Or last month.

Still going to get the guy who is mad he can't send $100 BTC for 40 Satoshi per byte like a fool. This reminds me of the people who used to refuse to pay fee's, if you are so unwilling to pay to play go to a different coin.

Suppose I agree to what you are saying which I am not actually but it is just a supposition if I agree that yes it is right to pay 420 satoshis/byte what positive impact will it have on my transaction? Or what facility are we going to accept after this much increase?

Shiroslullaby

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I just want to know when high fees and long transfer times are going to have more of an effect on the user base.

Mainstream commerce-
Long transaction times mean no store will ever accept Bitcoin.
Do stores ignore Bitcoin?
Do they use a third-party solution that promises faster confirmation times, and deal with additional fees, setup costs etc? Are these services reliable and trustworthy?
Does another currency with faster transactions overtake Bitcoin because it offers merchants the ability to take payment in person?

Darknet-
Lets be realistic. Drug addicts are super impulsive. A fentanyl addict isn't going to wait three days for their BTC to confirm when they are running low.
Some kid with $100 of Bitcoin might not be able to afford the transfer fee and still buy that bag of weed he wants.
Do they pay higher fees or choose another coin if given the option?
Will use of another coin like Monero, Litecoin, Dash, Ether get integrated/ become more popular on these sites? What would that mean to the price of the coin?

Thekool1s

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Quote

And there will be an idiot in the next minute replying that bitcoin wasn't designed for small payments.
Of course, maybe Satoshi when he wrote his paper on bitcoin was also an idiot.

Until the devs toss away their pride and do a compromise or something ...HODL.

Most of them are newcomers who are just starting out their journey, its not their fault, I don't blame them. Any person with a sane mind knows the transaction fees are out of hand. Bitcoin is becoming more of a currency for the Privileged and the Devs and the community is still debating about the issue. Bitcoin is kind of booming right now and there is a lot of hype going on around it, Imagine a new user coming to bitcoin and they see all this fees & delayed transaction mess. SMDH. I agree Bitcoin is only Good for HODL right now.

stompix

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Quote from: Paul Pogba on May 19, 2017, 12:26:02 AM

I think the cost 420 satoshis/byte is still cheaper than bank transfer, I think the most important is the speed, because of the bitcoin can send money faster and more secure than bank transfer.

Depends what kind of transfer.
From my bank account to another account same bank , it's instant and 0 fees.
To another bank account the fees are up to 5 euros for sums up to 100k.
In Europe we have SEPA.

When it comes to big payments worldwide bitcoin still has the edge but if you're sending small amounts to a friend the banks are winning.

Quote from: Thekool1s on May 19, 2017, 11:38:59 AM

I think its the beginning of something bad, If the devs don't do anything about it. I paid $6.4 fees to just transfer 80 bucks and i am afraid it will take at least a week to confirm. 109.53 sat/B and the size is Size: 3278 bytes. Now if i wanted to get quick confirmations, the fees would have been double or even triple. That's a big no no!. Take Payza or Paypal e.g, Instant transactions while paying 2.9% + 0.30 cents that is $2.62 for 80 bucks. The current fees is already thrice the amount approx. My $30 transaction is still pending, Its been 3 days already, I always use the Default Fees suggested by blockchain.info.

Devs enough talk, Just do something about it.. Bitcoin is really jamming up now.

And there will be an idiot in the next minute replying that bitcoin wasn't designed for small payments.
Of course, maybe Satoshi when he wrote his paper on bitcoin was also an idiot.

Until the devs toss away their pride and do a compromise or something ...HODL.

Thekool1s

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Change is in your hands

I think its the beginning of something bad, If the devs don't do anything about it. I paid $6.4 fees to just transfer 80 bucks and i am afraid it will take at least a week to confirm. 109.53 sat/B and the size is Size: 3278 bytes. Now if i wanted to get quick confirmations, the fees would have been double or even triple. That's a big no no!. Take Payza or Paypal e.g, Instant transactions while paying 2.9% + 0.30 cents that is $2.62 for 80 bucks. The current fees is already thrice the amount approx. My $30 transaction is still pending, Its been 3 days already, I always use the Default Fees suggested by blockchain.info.

Devs enough talk, Just do something about it.. Bitcoin is really jamming up now.

Labumi

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Hmm, I think this is not a question that is good enough. You need to know it happened because the price the higher the bitcoin, where I see that any increase in the price of the bitcoin transactions fee for sure will definitely be high. The cause of it all because of the amount of the transaction that is always high and it closes or opens a new block should be in order to receive or obtain a confirmation of every transaction we do. This is a reasonable thing, because despite the high price we would always get a lot of advantage

andreibi

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Quote from: kvlolo on May 19, 2017, 06:12:13 AM

Quote from: andreibi on May 18, 2017, 03:58:32 PM

This site https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#2h helps me a lot.

Steps to ensure fastest send.
1. These times you can never be sure of the fees to pay. So I strongly advice that whenever you send, you make sure to opt-in RBF (replace-by-fee) transactions.
2. Go check https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#2h Right now it says there are 1,100 pending TX for 280+ sats per byte.
3. Check https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/ to find out how much TX was included in the last 4 blocks and when was the last block found.
4. Determine the size of your send by using https://coinb.in/#newTransaction
5. Let's say 382 bytes is the final size of your tx. That's 0.0010696BTC.

From the above steps, you can approximate how much fees to pay.

Is that something like push service?

Yes, great for paper wallets.

kvlolo

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Quote from: andreibi on May 18, 2017, 03:58:32 PM

This site https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#2h helps me a lot.

Steps to ensure fastest send.
1. These times you can never be sure of the fees to pay. So I strongly advice that whenever you send, you make sure to opt-in RBF (replace-by-fee) transactions.
2. Go check https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#2h Right now it says there are 1,100 pending TX for 280+ sats per byte.
3. Check https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/ to find out how much TX was included in the last 4 blocks and when was the last block found.
4. Determine the size of your send by using https://coinb.in/#newTransaction
5. Let's say 382 bytes is the final size of your tx. That's 0.0010696BTC.

From the above steps, you can approximate how much fees to pay.

Is that something like push service?

Paul Pogba

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I think the cost 420 satoshis/byte is still cheaper than bank transfer, I think the most important is the speed, because of the bitcoin can send money faster and more secure than bank transfer.

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