The fees are crazy, 420 satoshis/byte, WHY? - page 4.

leopard2

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You can switch to Ripple. Cheap transactions, hot air is easier to move than (digital) gold.

Trouble is you cannot own XRP, just borrow it... Grin

IMHO the best way forward (if scaling wars cannot be resolved) is dual wallets and dual acceptance: BTC and LTC, so you can use large/small payments with the same ease.

Either BTC scales or LTC acceptance is improved or else, worthless crap like XRP will take over, and we will have just another fiat currency. Sad

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on May 16, 2017, 09:50:50 PM

Quote from: kvlolo on May 16, 2017, 08:42:17 PM

According to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/, it needs 420 satoshis/byte to get fast confirmations. Anyone know why the fees are going higher and higher?

Core developers must be focused on this issue, 200k unconfirmed transaction base here https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions is really intimidating.
And maybe before the price reach 2k, the price will be more than 500 satoshis/byte to get faster confirmation. And of course, Fees will be more high and higher until... I don't know what will happen soon.

I think they are and they are aware of this all, but they cannot implement a fix when the majority of miners do not vote for the fix they are offering. They need 95% of consensus, so what else they will do if the consensus is not reached. They cannot do a thing that does not have consensus so why other people blame them?

Tyrantt

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Need some spare btc for a new PC

Quote from: mikey5287 on May 16, 2017, 08:44:54 PM

Quote from: kvlolo on May 16, 2017, 08:42:17 PM

According to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/, it needs 420 satoshis/byte to get fast confirmations. Anyone know why the fees are going higher and higher?

This happens when there are a lot of unconfirmed bitcoin transactions. As of right now, there are over 200,000 unconfirmed transactions. You can check for yourself here: https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

The more transactions there are, the higher recommended fees are going to be.

That's why.

Well that might as well ruin bitcoin. Since there a lot more people joining in by every day and in a a few years we'll be paying fees high as with fiat money.

Quote from: Carlton Banks on May 17, 2017, 03:57:34 PM

The bitcoinfees.21.co website, and mostly everyone's brain, is broken.

Look at the graph on bitcoinfees.21.co, it's pretty clear to see that 120 satoshis per byte is what you need to pay, no different to last week. Or last month.

I've made a transaction with 120 sat/byte and I got 0/3 confirmations for 16+ hours, untill someone suggested me to use viabtc. So no, it's not.

CryptoDatabase

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on May 17, 2017, 03:57:34 PM

The bitcoinfees,21,co website, and mostly everyone's brain, is broken.

Look at the graph on bitcoinfees.21.co, it's pretty clear to see that 120 satoshis per byte is what you need to pay, no different to last week. Or last month.

Still going to get the guy who is mad he can't send $100 BTC for 40 Satoshi per byte like a fool. This reminds me of the people who used to refuse to pay fee's, if you are so unwilling to pay to play go to a different coin.

Way back on July 4, 1776 a group of people revolted against their overlords for paying too high of taxes. What do you think will happen to an imaginary currency if people get tired of it? You can use it alone if you want but your outlook on the problem is wrong.

Nagadota

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on May 17, 2017, 03:57:34 PM

The bitcoinfees.21.co website, and mostly everyone's brain, is broken.

Look at the graph on bitcoinfees.21.co, it's pretty clear to see that 120 satoshis per byte is what you need to pay, no different to last week. Or last month.

No it isn't. Fees of 120 satoshi/byte can leave the transaction unconfirmed for several days in most or at least many cases. Note that on the site it says 5 blocks to infinity and half the transactions sent with those fees are not confirmed. A lot of people send fees of that size, but a large portion of that is ignorant Blockchain wallet users and other newbies who didn't choose a wallet with decent fee estimation.

Sure, a transaction doesn't really need to confirm within the next block so you don't actually have to pay fees quite that high, but even 220-240 satoshi/byte fees often take an hour or so. Litecoin transactions are much cheaper because the blocks aren't all full.

It's a spam attack, but they're definitely capable of keeping it going for long enough.

swogerino

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Why people complain about the bitcoin fee I don't know. Bitcoin is a great way of payment and as such we have to make a few compromises and one of them is to pay the highest fee when you need to confirm your transaction in the next block that will be mined. As an average fee it is ok to wait for about 2-5 hours to have the first confirmation.
Think of it as when you pay a SWIFT in the bank, if you pay with SAME VALUE DATE you send the money within the same day , if not , the receiver takes 2 days normally until he receives the money.

Siren

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Quote from: scambust on May 17, 2017, 04:19:45 PM

In one hour, the average blocks found are around 4 - 5 blocks, sometimes less. The current transactions per second averages around 4 TX. That's 14,400 transactions in one hour. They can only fit about 2,200 TX per block, which means 3,400 transactions will have to wait for the next hour. And it accumulates over time.

If we kick the can further down the road, the devs can increase the blocksize to 1.3mb per block and there will be no delays for everyone. I don't know why they can't do this sooner. I'm sure everyone will agree delayed transactions are bad.

The reasoning is consensus, this one word will keep changes from happening. Most will agree there is a need to allow more tx, now your idea of 1.3mb will be countered by, let's just do segwit, let's do BU , let's do 2mb, let's do 4mb.

Issue is people start acting like factions and attack each other and say my way is the only way as Bitcoin can go only one way.

Actually is a civil war already. I guess the general public will have to suffer with all of this war going on between the 2 factions. Consensus will not be met unfortunately and no one will give an inch. Delayed transaction are really bad specially if we are heading to new level with Japan and other nation accepting bitcoin now.

scambust

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In one hour, the average blocks found are around 4 - 5 blocks, sometimes less. The current transactions per second averages around 4 TX. That's 14,400 transactions in one hour. They can only fit about 2,200 TX per block, which means 3,400 transactions will have to wait for the next hour. And it accumulates over time.

If we kick the can further down the road, the devs can increase the blocksize to 1.3mb per block and there will be no delays for everyone. I don't know why they can't do this sooner. I'm sure everyone will agree delayed transactions are bad.

cpfreeplz

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Quote from: The One on May 16, 2017, 09:30:31 PM

Quote from: kvlolo on May 16, 2017, 08:42:17 PM

According to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/, it needs 420 satoshis/byte to get fast confirmations. Anyone know why the fees are going higher and higher?

Because of Bitcoin Core developers incompetence.

Not really a need to bring that up here especially since there is already a solution that was brought forth but there are certain pools who shall remain nameless that don't want to participate. If you were a miner would you like 420 sat/byte or 25 sat/byte...? It all comes from greed.

Carlton Banks

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The bitcoinfees.21.co website, and mostly everyone's brain, is broken.

Look at the graph on bitcoinfees.21.co, it's pretty clear to see that 120 satoshis per byte is what you need to pay, no different to last week. Or last month.

Meuh6879

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Quote from: PhucS on May 17, 2017, 01:00:13 PM

I think this is really a high fee

POS (bank debit card) use a transaction fees of 2% in my country ...

Bitcoin network is cheap even now ...

but you need the right fees to pass the transaction.

And that, it's new (following the rules in Bitcoin).

kelseydustin

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Yeah, even the fees are high, you can still have to wait in order for your confirmation to be confirmed and it really sucks to wait and to pay a high fee like that. More people are joining our world, but they are really making a mess around here

skorupi17

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Quote from: The One on May 16, 2017, 09:30:31 PM

Quote from: kvlolo on May 16, 2017, 08:42:17 PM

According to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/, it needs 420 satoshis/byte to get fast confirmations. Anyone know why the fees are going higher and higher?

Because of Bitcoin Core developers incompetence.

I'll give you that one mate. Wink

But there is a follow up question for that, WHY?

I cannot understand why the developers do not impose an effective solution in coping with that deteriorating issue. That is the reason why many bitcoin users are sick of bitcoin. Too much waiting time and over the top transaction fees. Having a solution to this problem is a must and very needed.

TryNinja

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That's just sad. I remember when I could pay a few cents to send my friends some satoshis just for fun.
Now, I can't send amounts lower than $1 because I will need to pay the double just in fees.

We better get a solution asap or bitcoin will only be useful to send high amounts of cash.

EdenHazard

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Quote from: Netnox on May 17, 2017, 12:21:44 PM

I won't be surprised if it reaches 2,000 Sat/byte by the end of this month. It is impossible to reach a consensus on Segwit due to the stupid 95% rule. So the block size remains constant, and the backlog is increasing beyond tolerable limits.

crazy 95% indeed for segwit to be activated, and it won't happend. what next then?

we can expect a bigger and bigger fee for those people who want a fast and almost instant transaction which everybody want it! looks like the debate will not ended in the near future , we are as a non-miner suffering. really torturing . unless you are patient enough to wait for 3 days to get confirmed.

PhucS

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Quote from: kvlolo on May 16, 2017, 08:42:17 PM

According to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/, it needs 420 satoshis/byte to get fast confirmations. Anyone know why the fees are going higher and higher?

I think this is really a high fee and maybe it will rise even higher in the future. Previously, we do not have to complain too much about the issue of Bitcoin transaction fee but now the issue is getting more and more attention. Its fee is rising, this is really crazy as you say. The high fees like these can affect the popularity of Bitcoin, others want to know about Bitcoin but if they see charges like this they will probably stop learning about it. I hope in the future this issue will be resolved

Wendigo

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Quote from: -ck on May 17, 2017, 06:07:52 AM

420 because bitcoin is smoking

OMG the funniest shit I have seen for a while here Grin

You made my day Grin

Netnox

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I won't be surprised if it reaches 2,000 Sat/byte by the end of this month. It is impossible to reach a consensus on Segwit due to the stupid 95% rule. So the block size remains constant, and the backlog is increasing beyond tolerable limits.

markjamrobin

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Quote from: kvlolo on May 17, 2017, 12:07:50 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on May 17, 2017, 08:00:09 AM

Quote from: kvlolo on May 17, 2017, 07:47:11 AM

Quote from: buwaytress on May 17, 2017, 06:26:58 AM

It's at 450 now but bear in mind this is the estimation to very likely get confirmed in the next block... the median fee is half that and still gets confirmed in hours (yes, I can't believe I'm thinking hours is reasonable now but I actually am getting used to it).

To be fair, my largest txs are all around 250 bytes or so... after learning to keep em small. So I'm still paying a pittance in terms of %.

Would you mind to share your skill on how to make transaction size smaller? I knew that using changing addresses would make size bigger.

it is not something you can do after the fact, you should do it before.
for example you shouldn't receive a lot of small transactions like 0.001BTC if it is a service and you are getting paid or withdrawing, then wait until it accumulates to a bigger amount and then request payment.

I see. For a same amount (accumulated from certain transactions, lets say 1 BTC), less transactions smaller size, more transactions bigger size, isn't it?

Certainly, and now, the trading floors are seeking to optimize that. They are increasing transaction fees to increase its speed, we and they all pay a high fee for fast execution

kvlolo

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on May 17, 2017, 08:00:09 AM

Quote from: kvlolo on May 17, 2017, 07:47:11 AM

Quote from: buwaytress on May 17, 2017, 06:26:58 AM

It's at 450 now but bear in mind this is the estimation to very likely get confirmed in the next block... the median fee is half that and still gets confirmed in hours (yes, I can't believe I'm thinking hours is reasonable now but I actually am getting used to it).

To be fair, my largest txs are all around 250 bytes or so... after learning to keep em small. So I'm still paying a pittance in terms of %.

Would you mind to share your skill on how to make transaction size smaller? I knew that using changing addresses would make size bigger.

it is not something you can do after the fact, you should do it before.
for example you shouldn't receive a lot of small transactions like 0.001BTC if it is a service and you are getting paid or withdrawing, then wait until it accumulates to a bigger amount and then request payment.

I see. For a same amount (accumulated from certain transactions, lets say 1 BTC), less transactions smaller size, more transactions bigger size, isn't it?

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