The fine line between market investment and sports gambling - page 3.

michellee

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on April 14, 2021, 06:35:54 AM

Quote from: michellee on April 13, 2021, 07:16:13 AM

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.

As long as we can get the right investment, we can make a profit in the future. But we need to know how to manage the risk or select the investment to get a positive result. The fine line between investment and gambling can confuse people because if they do not research more about both things, they can gamble with their money which does not give them the profit.

Maybe the benefit of gambling is we can feel relax and have fun but if we play longer, that can make us lose money. At the same time, the investment will give us more return than gambling.

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Quote from: paxmao on April 13, 2021, 06:37:33 AM

Quote from: Smartprofit on April 13, 2021, 02:00:23 AM

In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing.

Gambling is a zero-sum game. One player wins, the other loses. Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game.

Investing is always a winning strategy. Investment is the investor's bet on progress. The modern financial system is inflationary. In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing.

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth.

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.

There are many investments that are also a zero sum game - such as binary options in which for one party to win, the other has to loose necessarily, so that is not a good criteria to discriminate. Investing is not always a wining strategy - there is plenty of money and value to be lost and it is indeed lost everyday since there are companies that go to zero all over. In fact, most do go to zero in the first few years.

Lastly, the organisers of the market usually have built-in advantages, although I admit that small investors do have other advantages that they can use, such as being able to invest in illiquid and small assets.

Yes, you are absolutely right - Binary Options is a classic zero sum game. In my opinion, binary options are not a classic investment, but rather a hedging instrument.

However, when investing for long periods of time using the hodla strategy, the patient investor tends to make a profit. The basic rule is to invest in different stocks (to differentiate risks).

As the proverb says - "You don't need to put all chicken eggs in one basket."

The stock market accumulates surplus funds that (otherwise) could enter the consumer market and lead to hyperinflation.

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Quote from: michellee on April 13, 2021, 07:16:13 AM

<...>

indeed, inveting is not always guaranteed to make great returns over the longer run if one makes bad decisions
though if managing risk and being responsible the possiblity of a positive outcome is much higher than with gambling.

it's also much harder to find an edge while gambling than on investing.

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Quote from: KTChampions on April 10, 2021, 09:41:08 AM

Quote from: Silberman on April 10, 2021, 12:42:09 AM

It is true the price of bitcoin can go down but just as it demonstrated during this year even if you invested at a bad price just as many people did during 2017 or 2018 there is still a lot of potential to make profits as long as you keep holding your coins, I know it is not easy as those people would have had in theory to keep holding their coins for 3 years just to breakeven but even then they will still be making 200% profits if they did so, and that is if we assume they bought at the worst possible time which shows to me why investing is not really gambling even if some people mistakenly believe it.

Yes, until today, any investment in bitcoin has been profitable (if you had the will and the money to wait out the 85% drawdown), but there is no guarantee that it will be so in the future. If new projects begin to perform the function that was originally assigned to bitcoin (fast and cheap payments on the Internet) and gain wide recognition, then they will become more competitive with bitcoin and it will be difficult for it to maintain its position.

On that we are an agreement past performance is not indicative of future performance, we do not know if the price of bitcoin is going to keep going up, I believe it will because the fundamentals of bitcoin are that strong but I do not have a crystal ball so I cannot know for sure, however bitcoin is slowly reaching a point of no return, think of social media and the giant that Facebook is, unless there is government intervention it is going to be very difficult for another social media website to surpass Facebook, and if despite all of that a new social media website appears that could become a competitor Facebook can just buy them out, and even if this does not translate directly very well in the market of cryptocurrencies, bitcoin is reaching a position that is so dominant that if a competitor does not appear soon then we can say that most likely it is not going to ever appear.

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Quote from: Darker45 on March 24, 2021, 10:32:12 PM

In the broad sense of the word, both are gambling. There's not much difference between the two. It's just that there are various interpretations of the word, various contexts on which gambling could be construed differently.

Gambling could refer to placing bets on a game of chance or on a sports team as much as it could refer to taking a risk making a bid order in a stock market or on a crypto exchange platform. However, most of the time gambling in the sense of the former is more on merely having fun and taking blind chances while the latter is oftentimes understood as a serious undertaking which involves a lot of informed analysis.

At the end of the day, I don't think one should be made illegal while the other legal. But both should be highly regulated.

I can't agree more.

Both have their own level of risk and returns but both are good ways on earning money if you know what you're into and what you're doing. Plainly entering both market just because of peer pressure would not help anyone but will just lose all of their money in the long run. The regulation and other legal stuff is all about securing the both business and its clients safe and free from any illegal deeds of the gambling sites or the clients.

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Quote from: sunsilk on April 10, 2021, 01:36:41 PM

Quote from: michellee on April 09, 2021, 12:17:31 PM

If they can use the investment section in the gambling site, they will have a chance to make more money than playing gambling.

Not that making more, investing to a bankroll needs time to make money and it's not that what you think as easy as what you say. It requires time for you to make with that feature.

That is the consequences that they should get from the investment. The waiting time for the investment will not have just in a short time because sometimes, they need to wait for months until they can profit from the investment.

Quote from: sunsilk on April 10, 2021, 01:36:41 PM

Quote from: michellee on April 09, 2021, 12:17:31 PM

But that will depend on how they will use their money on the gambling site because many people use the money to gamble to search for fun. We can choose what we need to do, and we can also use gambling for fun and use the investment that is available on that site to earn additional profit.

Fun, investment, making money with gambling, yes, all of those things depends on how the gambler will make his money and put it into purpose.

But many gamblers can not earn money from gambling instead only lose their money many times. If they see that, they ought to realize that they can not make money from gambling, so they must leave gambling before it is too late for them.

Quote from: Smartprofit on April 13, 2021, 02:00:23 AM

Quote from: michellee on April 06, 2021, 11:22:42 AM

==

In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing.

Gambling is a zero-sum game. One player wins, the other loses. Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game.

Investing is always a winning strategy. Investment is the investor's bet on progress. The modern financial system is inflationary. In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing.

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth.

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.

Indeed. What you are saying is right and I agree with you. The investment can be their way to make money in the future, but only if they can select the right investment by researching the right. Maybe they can lose from the investment, but the value of the investment can increase back in the future, so they can still profit from that. If someone wants to make money from the investment, they must research and select the investment. Otherwise, that will be the same as gambling.

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Quote from: Smartprofit on April 13, 2021, 02:00:23 AM

In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing.

Gambling is a zero-sum game. One player wins, the other loses. Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game.

Investing is always a winning strategy. Investment is the investor's bet on progress. The modern financial system is inflationary. In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing.

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth.

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.

There are many investments that are also a zero sum game - such as binary options in which for one party to win, the other has to loose necessarily, so that is not a good criteria to discriminate. Investing is not always a wining strategy - there is plenty of money and value to be lost and it is indeed lost everyday since there are companies that go to zero all over. In fact, most do go to zero in the first few years.

Lastly, the organisers of the market usually have built-in advantages, although I admit that small investors do have other advantages that they can use, such as being able to invest in illiquid and small assets.

Smartprofit

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Quote from: michellee on April 06, 2021, 11:22:42 AM

Quote from: dimonstration on April 05, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two.

Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.

So the investment will help us earn the reward in the future, and if we can get the right investment, such as investing in bitcoin, we can profit in the future. But that will not happen in gambling because we can lose all of the money without we can try to recover. Maybe if we can use the money that we spend for gambling to invest in something like bitcoin and other coins, we can a nice return in the future. But make sure you learn before you invest so you will not make a wrong decision.

In my opinion, there is a significant difference between gambling and investing.

Gambling is a zero-sum game. One player wins, the other loses. Moreover, as a rule, the organizer of the gambling game has a competitive advantage in the game.

Investing is always a winning strategy. Investment is the investor's bet on progress. The modern financial system is inflationary. In monetary terms, the capitalization of all global companies is constantly growing.

The price of one individual share may fall, but stock indices are showing constant growth.

Under these conditions, a patient investor is guaranteed to make a profit.

sunsilk

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Quote from: michellee on April 09, 2021, 12:17:31 PM

If they can use the investment section in the gambling site, they will have a chance to make more money than playing gambling.

Not that making more, investing to a bankroll needs time to make money and it's not that what you think as easy as what you say. It requires time for you to make with that feature.

Quote from: michellee on April 09, 2021, 12:17:31 PM

But that will depend on how they will use their money on the gambling site because many people use the money to gamble to search for fun. We can choose what we need to do, and we can also use gambling for fun and use the investment that is available on that site to earn additional profit.

Fun, investment, making money with gambling, yes, all of those things depends on how the gambler will make his money and put it into purpose.

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Quote from: Silberman on April 10, 2021, 12:42:09 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on April 09, 2021, 05:15:54 AM

In the first part, I completely agree - if the business remains relevant and satisfies the needs of people, then there is no point in selling a stake in it as it makes a profit. As for the holding of crypto, this phenomenon also has a negative side - because of this, practical application falls, which sooner or later will lead to a fall in the price of the asset itself.

It is true the price of bitcoin can go down but just as it demonstrated during this year even if you invested at a bad price just as many people did during 2017 or 2018 there is still a lot of potential to make profits as long as you keep holding your coins, I know it is not easy as those people would have had in theory to keep holding their coins for 3 years just to breakeven but even then they will still be making 200% profits if they did so, and that is if we assume they bought at the worst possible time which shows to me why investing is not really gambling even if some people mistakenly believe it.

Yes, until today, any investment in bitcoin has been profitable (if you had the will and the money to wait out the 85% drawdown), but there is no guarantee that it will be so in the future. If new projects begin to perform the function that was originally assigned to bitcoin (fast and cheap payments on the Internet) and gain wide recognition, then they will become more competitive with bitcoin and it will be difficult for it to maintain its position.

Silberman

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Quote from: KTChampions on April 09, 2021, 05:15:54 AM

Quote from: Silberman on April 06, 2021, 08:07:02 PM

We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

In the first part, I completely agree - if the business remains relevant and satisfies the needs of people, then there is no point in selling a stake in it as it makes a profit. As for the holding of crypto, this phenomenon also has a negative side - because of this, practical application falls, which sooner or later will lead to a fall in the price of the asset itself.

It is true the price of bitcoin can go down but just as it demonstrated during this year even if you invested at a bad price just as many people did during 2017 or 2018 there is still a lot of potential to make profits as long as you keep holding your coins, I know it is not easy as those people would have had in theory to keep holding their coins for 3 years just to breakeven but even then they will still be making 200% profits if they did so, and that is if we assume they bought at the worst possible time which shows to me why investing is not really gambling even if some people mistakenly believe it.

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Quote from: Becky666 on April 09, 2021, 06:41:29 AM

Quote from: dimonstration on April 05, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two.

Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.

An investment into bitcoin will be such that will help investors secure their funds than gambling. There are distinct differences between these two, gambling is purely lucky base while investment solely depends on ability to manage the available funds. In gambling i have lost severally but in investment has always be mindful of my funds management.

If they can use the investment section in the gambling site, they will have a chance to make more money than playing gambling. But that will depend on how they will use their money on the gambling site because many people use the money to gamble to search for fun. We can choose what we need to do, and we can also use gambling for fun and use the investment that is available on that site to earn additional profit.

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Quote from: dimonstration on April 05, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two.

Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.

An investment into bitcoin will be such that will help investors secure their funds than gambling. There are distinct differences between these two, gambling is purely lucky base while investment solely depends on ability to manage the available funds. In gambling i have lost severally but in investment has always be mindful of my funds management.

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Quote from: Silberman on April 06, 2021, 08:07:02 PM

Quote from: Wexnident on April 04, 2021, 01:39:23 AM

Quote from: Silberman on April 03, 2021, 08:05:48 PM

It seems to me that you are confusing investment with trading, traders are the ones that speculate with the price of an asset on the short term, investors do not really speculate, they look at the fundamentals of an asset and then they try to project to the future whether or not that asset is going to be more valuable in the future and if they think that is the case then they put their money in that asset, this is precisely what is happening now with institutional investors coming to bitcoin at the moment

They're the same, both are involved in speculation, just that the time frame that the both of them look at is different.

We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

Yes, investment and gambling are entirely different things and should no be compared with each other. People invest for long/medium term and the risk is very less if the investment is in the right place.
On the other hand, gambling is highly risky task and only those who can afford to lose their money should gamble.

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Quote from: Silberman on April 06, 2021, 08:07:02 PM

We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

In the first part, I completely agree - if the business remains relevant and satisfies the needs of people, then there is no point in selling a stake in it as it makes a profit. As for the holding of crypto, this phenomenon also has a negative side - because of this, practical application falls, which sooner or later will lead to a fall in the price of the asset itself.

paxmao

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Quote from: Darker45 on April 03, 2021, 08:43:11 PM

...
In the most simple terms, absolute freedom means you can do anything you want, without limit, and without any constraint. That sounds sweet but dreadful.

Forget about beneficial; that's subjective. Forget about right attitude and conscience. Forget about good and evil. Those are meaningless concepts in a place where every single person is absolutely free.

I'm not so sure about you being born knowing what is good and what is not. What I'm sure of is that the rest of the human beings were born tabula rasa.

My friend, in a human society, regulations are not exclusive for evil things. Everything is regulated.

Absolute freedom is just impossible, our own nature as humans (well, I am partly and AI living on a cloud service, but that would take too long to explain

) and even our own nature as physical beings limited in space, time and sensory abilities set up a boundary to what we can do.

Many times people refer to "financial freedom" which is to, at least, be able to have a wide choice on what to invest your time. It is not much about earning and multiplying, but also about deciding to live with with what is really worth.

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Quote from: dimonstration on April 05, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two.

Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.

Investment is far different from gambling in my point of view and this should not be compared. Gambling is purely based on luck to earn while on Investment, you can have high chance of gaining profit if you case study on the things or company that you want to invest in just like what you said that you have full control on the funds.

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Quote from: Wexnident on April 04, 2021, 01:39:23 AM

Quote from: Silberman on April 03, 2021, 08:05:48 PM

It seems to me that you are confusing investment with trading, traders are the ones that speculate with the price of an asset on the short term, investors do not really speculate, they look at the fundamentals of an asset and then they try to project to the future whether or not that asset is going to be more valuable in the future and if they think that is the case then they put their money in that asset, this is precisely what is happening now with institutional investors coming to bitcoin at the moment

They're the same, both are involved in speculation, just that the time frame that the both of them look at is different.

We will have to agree to disagree here, because I do not see investing as speculation at all, a person investing in a business is doing so because that person really believes in the business in question and it is not really interested in selling their assets anytime soon or ever, after all if you are invested in a good business then why sell? This is why bitcoin holders always urge people to keep holding their coins no matter what as they have no plans of selling soon and maybe ever.

michellee

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Quote from: dimonstration on April 05, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two.

Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.

So the investment will help us earn the reward in the future, and if we can get the right investment, such as investing in bitcoin, we can profit in the future. But that will not happen in gambling because we can lose all of the money without we can try to recover. Maybe if we can use the money that we spend for gambling to invest in something like bitcoin and other coins, we can a nice return in the future. But make sure you learn before you invest so you will not make a wrong decision.

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Quote from: dimonstration on April 05, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

They are just two different thing but very similar. investment is a means to earn from your keeping why the so called gambling doesn't but wen appropriately done and win then you will earn reward. Investment isn't gambling and gambling won't be like investment, except when the operators tend to be illegal about the two.

Investing can be a a problem to when we only just go with it without studying it, its like taking a gambling since we dont5do research but it can lessen when we do our research and what to buy and hold. It is less riskier and we have fully control on what decision we will do unlike in gambling that the House who controls it.

And also, most gambling games are based on luck. When it comes to investment, the fate of your funds depends on your management. It is not based on luck. It is how well you know how to handle finances and things that go in between. You have the full control on what you want to do with your money. Whereas, in gambling, there is house edge, and that is the advantage of being a house.

Topic: The fine line between market investment and sports gambling - page 3. (Read 1425 times)