The future of the paper money - page 155.

Hammerschmidt

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Quote from: deisik on January 17, 2017, 04:33:45 PM

Quote from: Hammerschmidt on January 17, 2017, 03:02:22 PM

Other than that, no digital currency (Bitcoin or whatever) is backed up by the mining difficulty. It is equal to saying that Bitcoin (for example) is backed up by miners' cost of mining. This is as alluring an approach as it is misleading. Value of anything is backed up by its usefulness alone (otherwise known as utility), and if Bitcoin loses its utility (whatever it might be, speculative or transactional), mining costs will quickly become irrelevant (and ironically, mining difficulty will decrease soon thereafter)

I think this deserves additional thought. If you could purchase a mining rig for $10 that could crank out 1 BTC/day, would it not be safe to say the value of bitcoin would be lower than today? I think this is the case.

Let's now approximate what it would cost to buy such a set of ASIC systems today. Maybe $75,000? $100,000? More?

And if that's the case, would I be foolish to sell the BTC it produces for less than $100,000/that number of bitcoins? That would be below my break even point once you factor in electricity costs.

I think there's no escaping the fact that miners control the supply, and therefore have a very big say in what we pay for BTC.

danherbias07

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The thing is we dont have the power to force bitcoin to be a new currency. Also, why change now when everyone got used to fiat and I think it is doing great. We all want something new but that might hurt the economy on the long run.

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Quote from: BeGoods on January 17, 2017, 06:58:23 PM

Quote from: Tanic on January 17, 2017, 03:44:30 PM

Quote from: Pattart on January 16, 2017, 11:26:57 AM

Quote from: praboso96 on January 14, 2017, 03:01:16 PM

Paper money will long exist. This is not just a means to pay for goods or services. It is a habit and an indicator of prestige

I think true of paper money not only to pay for an item, although in the future will all be completely online or digital, but the currency symbol will definitely be in the form of paper money

I think we will not catch this future where all financial transactions would be provided online. I believe that it's our future and the future of paper money to be shown in a museum, but not so soon.

although the actual current now online transactions are preferred. using a credit car or other online currency, is now more attractive, you can see people when buying goods in the mall. most of them use a debit card or credit card it is a sign of the beginning

It's for our convenient, but you are only looking in one portion of this world. Most of the users of credit and debit cards are only those who have a decent income and they can afford to live a comfortable life. However on the other side of this world, poverty is still a very big problem and this people has no opportunity to use this facilities as all they know is to use paper money to buy their needs since it's very simple.

BeGoods

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Quote from: Tanic on January 17, 2017, 03:44:30 PM

Quote from: Pattart on January 16, 2017, 11:26:57 AM

Quote from: praboso96 on January 14, 2017, 03:01:16 PM

Paper money will long exist. This is not just a means to pay for goods or services. It is a habit and an indicator of prestige

I think true of paper money not only to pay for an item, although in the future will all be completely online or digital, but the currency symbol will definitely be in the form of paper money

I think we will not catch this future where all financial transactions would be provided online. I believe that it's our future and the future of paper money to be shown in a museum, but not so soon.

although the actual current now online transactions are preferred. using a credit car or other online currency, is now more attractive, you can see people when buying goods in the mall. most of them use a debit card or credit card it is a sign of the beginning

deisik

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Quote from: Hammerschmidt on January 17, 2017, 03:02:22 PM

Paper money is only limited by earth's supply of trees

At least digital currency is "backed" by the mining's ever-soaring level of difficulty. This built-in scarcity model prevents deflation of bitcoin value, raises the miners' bar for return on investment, and thereby guarantees a steady climb in price. Each transaction buyer wants to hold for a later price rise, and so on down the line. Not every trader can outwait their own need for their own fiat currency, so naturally there are trades at a loss. Whoever has the most patience and greatest wealth can end up with a large hoard of bitcoins

Good paper money is made from cotton, it is more durable overall

Other than that, no digital currency (Bitcoin or whatever) is backed up by the mining difficulty. It is equal to saying that Bitcoin (for example) is backed up by miners' cost of mining. This is as alluring an approach as it is misleading. Value of anything is backed up by its usefulness alone (otherwise known as utility), and if Bitcoin loses its utility (whatever it might be, speculative or transactional), mining costs will quickly become irrelevant (and ironically, mining difficulty will decrease soon thereafter)

Tanic

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Quote from: Pattart on January 16, 2017, 11:26:57 AM

Quote from: praboso96 on January 14, 2017, 03:01:16 PM

Paper money will long exist. This is not just a means to pay for goods or services. It is a habit and an indicator of prestige

I think true of paper money not only to pay for an item, although in the future will all be completely online or digital, but the currency symbol will definitely be in the form of paper money

I think we will not catch this future where all financial transactions would be provided online. I believe that it's our future and the future of paper money to be shown in a museum, but not so soon.

Hammerschmidt

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Paper money is only limited by earth's supply of trees

At least digital currency is "backed" by the mining's ever-soaring level of difficulty. This built-in scarcity model prevents deflation of bitcoin value, raises the miners' bar for return on investment, and thereby guarantees a steady climb in price. Each transaction buyer wants to hold for a later price rise, and so on down the line. Not every trader can outwait their own need for their own fiat currency, so naturally there are trades at a loss. Whoever has the most patience and greatest wealth can end up with a large hoard of bitcoins.

Fireblade

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Quote from: delliaerd on January 16, 2017, 10:29:08 PM

Quote from: olubams on January 16, 2017, 11:51:32 AM

From where I stand, I am sure that the future of paper money is still as strong as we have now and if it will be threatened it will only lose some portion to e-money but still Fiat and not in any way threatened by digital currency at least not bitcoin but if my country will now have its known digital currency then I see a shift because all forms of support will be given to force it down all citizens throat and in the long-run I see it taking over from paper currency but I didnt see that happening anytime soon...

Replacing fiat by another currency is not an easy thing. The condition of fiat is directly affect the country enonomy. Fiat power is depend on the country power. Most of countries were use USD as international currency because they think that USA is strong country for a long time. But saving fiat is have a risk too, the inflation makes tha value decrease. I think those countries will replace fiat in the future, then replaced by something better such as gold or bitcoin.

actually still majority of people and specially people from the backward countries do not have good knowledge about bitcoin and the reason is that they do not know about compute and internet, because their states cannot provides such facilities to their people therefore i they will continue with their fiat for a long time.

Mastsetad

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Quote from: olubams on January 16, 2017, 11:51:32 AM

From where I stand, I am sure that the future of paper money is still as strong as we have now and if it will be threatened it will only lose some portion to e-money but still Fiat and not in any way threatened by digital currency at least not bitcoin but if my country will now have its known digital currency then I see a shift because all forms of support will be given to force it down all citizens throat and in the long-run I see it taking over from paper currency but I didnt see that happening anytime soon...

No one can say if when this will happen but for sure paper money will get replaced one day and digital currencies will take its place. No one can also say that the existing digital currencies will be used because governments can make their own currencies as well, for example every government can make their own currencies digital.

zikel

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Quote from: gabmen on January 17, 2017, 03:52:33 AM

Quote from: delliaerd on January 16, 2017, 10:29:08 PM

Quote from: olubams on January 16, 2017, 11:51:32 AM

From where I stand, I am sure that the future of paper money is still as strong as we have now and if it will be threatened it will only lose some portion to e-money but still Fiat and not in any way threatened by digital currency at least not bitcoin but if my country will now have its known digital currency then I see a shift because all forms of support will be given to force it down all citizens throat and in the long-run I see it taking over from paper currency but I didnt see that happening anytime soon...

Replacing fiat by another currency is not an easy thing. The condition of fiat is directly affect the country enonomy. Fiat power is depend on the country power. Most of countries were use USD as international currency because they think that USA is strong country for a long time. But saving fiat is have a risk too, the inflation makes tha value decrease. I think those countries will replace fiat in the future, then replaced by something better such as gold or bitcoin.

That may happen but not in the near future. Currently fiat is only currency backed by big banking inatitutions which mainly controls this field of finance and economics. I think that unless these big banks adopt the use of other currencies, we won't be seeing any major changes when it comes to monetary systems around the world

I also agree with you. Large firms have the power over the government. And the government will protect their interests. A cryptocurrency do not like the government. That is why the Fiat will be used for a long time

gabmen

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Quote from: delliaerd on January 16, 2017, 10:29:08 PM

Quote from: olubams on January 16, 2017, 11:51:32 AM

From where I stand, I am sure that the future of paper money is still as strong as we have now and if it will be threatened it will only lose some portion to e-money but still Fiat and not in any way threatened by digital currency at least not bitcoin but if my country will now have its known digital currency then I see a shift because all forms of support will be given to force it down all citizens throat and in the long-run I see it taking over from paper currency but I didnt see that happening anytime soon...

Replacing fiat by another currency is not an easy thing. The condition of fiat is directly affect the country enonomy. Fiat power is depend on the country power. Most of countries were use USD as international currency because they think that USA is strong country for a long time. But saving fiat is have a risk too, the inflation makes tha value decrease. I think those countries will replace fiat in the future, then replaced by something better such as gold or bitcoin.

That may happen but not in the near future. Currently fiat is only currency backed by big banking inatitutions which mainly controls this field of finance and economics. I think that unless these big banks adopt the use of other currencies, we won't be seeing any major changes when it comes to monetary systems around the world

delliaerd

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Quote from: olubams on January 16, 2017, 11:51:32 AM

From where I stand, I am sure that the future of paper money is still as strong as we have now and if it will be threatened it will only lose some portion to e-money but still Fiat and not in any way threatened by digital currency at least not bitcoin but if my country will now have its known digital currency then I see a shift because all forms of support will be given to force it down all citizens throat and in the long-run I see it taking over from paper currency but I didnt see that happening anytime soon...

Replacing fiat by another currency is not an easy thing. The condition of fiat is directly affect the country enonomy. Fiat power is depend on the country power. Most of countries were use USD as international currency because they think that USA is strong country for a long time. But saving fiat is have a risk too, the inflation makes tha value decrease. I think those countries will replace fiat in the future, then replaced by something better such as gold or bitcoin.

jaysabi

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Quote from: South Park on January 12, 2017, 01:40:00 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on January 11, 2017, 02:14:43 PM

Quote from: South Park on January 11, 2017, 12:45:34 PM

Quote from: mornabo on January 07, 2017, 05:57:36 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on January 07, 2017, 06:26:20 AM

Governments also prefer digital money over paper, because it's very easy to track transactions. Cash is the main form of money for black market right now, and it's also used for tax evasions and other illegal activities. So, I think people will be reaching towards crypto currencies as governments push people away frosh cash.

using digital money, the government can control the velocity of money and where the money someone will go. yeah I think the government will just love it but is it that could make paper money disappear?

The government cannot control the velocity of money, that is something controlled by the users of fiat, all of us, they can try but history has showed us they always fail, besides when the government tries to control the velocity of money is because something way worst is happening like big inflation.

The central bank does indeed control the pace of money creation through the use of interest rates. The central bank prints physical notes, but more money is created through fractional reserve banking, which is mostly digital. By raising the interest rates banks pay to the federal reserve, they can control the rate at which the banks are able to create new money through fractional reserve banking. By lowering the rates, the opposite happens.

That is a mistake, that is not money velocity, that is money supply a different term, money velocity refers to how fast money changes hands, and that is not controlled by the government, when the velocity of money is very fast it means that no one wants to hold fiat for long periods of time and if that is happening then inflation must be out of control.

Ah, I misinterpreted your meaning then. However, I would still say that people's willingness or unwillingness to hold money (money velocity) is still linked to the Fed's decisions on interest rates and the pace of money creation. If the Fed is inflating away all the value, that will increase money velocity. Creating long term stability in the value of fiat will lead to slower money velocity and aid saving, since value is not eroded with time.

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Quote from: deisik on January 11, 2017, 03:44:59 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on January 11, 2017, 02:14:43 PM

Quote from: South Park on January 11, 2017, 12:45:34 PM

Quote from: mornabo on January 07, 2017, 05:57:36 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on January 07, 2017, 06:26:20 AM

Governments also prefer digital money over paper, because it's very easy to track transactions. Cash is the main form of money for black market right now, and it's also used for tax evasions and other illegal activities. So, I think people will be reaching towards crypto currencies as governments push people away frosh cash.

using digital money, the government can control the velocity of money and where the money someone will go. yeah I think the government will just love it but is it that could make paper money disappear?

The government cannot control the velocity of money, that is something controlled by the users of fiat, all of us, they can try but history has showed us they always fail, besides when the government tries to control the velocity of money is because something way worst is happening like big inflation.

The central bank does indeed control the pace of money creation through the use of interest rates. The central bank prints physical notes, but more money is created through fractional reserve banking, which is mostly digital. By raising the interest rates banks pay to the federal reserve, they can control the rate at which the banks are able to create new money through fractional reserve banking. By lowering the rates, the opposite happens

You seem to be confusing something here

Obviously, you refer to reserve requirements which are the amounts that commercial banks are obliged to hold at the Fed (if we are talking about the US). The interest rates (federal funds rates) you refer to are the rates at which banks offer their excess reserve balances as short term (typically overnight) loans to other banks which fall short for money, for example, due to cash gaps. Moreover, in some countries (e.g. in Canada) banks don't have to keep any reserves at the central bank, i.e. their reserve requirements are equal to 0

No, I'm talking about the discount rate, which is used to restrict or increase the money supply by increasing or decreasing the rate at which banks must pay to borrow funds from the fed. The reserve ratio is not frequently changed, but the fed routinely changes the discount rate to impact the availability of money. Short term interest rates tend to track the movements in the discount rate, which is not a market rate; it is determined solely by the federal reserve.

olubams

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From where I stand, I am sure that the future of paper money is still as strong as we have now and if it will be threatened it will only lose some portion to e-money but still Fiat and not in any way threatened by digital currency at least not bitcoin but if my country will now have its known digital currency then I see a shift because all forms of support will be given to force it down all citizens throat and in the long-run I see it taking over from paper currency but I didnt see that happening anytime soon...

Theb

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Quote from: wearepoor on September 21, 2015, 11:20:45 AM

I think paper money have its own importance and will never dead. Though people are started using debit cards, credit cards and other digital currencies; there are some transaction which needs to be deal in traditional cash only. Paper money will be always the main mode of payment for day to day transactions.

Debit cards are good as cash because they are using your money you deposited in the bank. Credit Card bills are being paid up by Cash. Bitcoin's value is based on Fiat currency. All of them will be nothing if paper currency or Fiat will be gone. They are just improving the uses of Fiat but they don't have the ability to replace them.

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Quote from: praboso96 on January 14, 2017, 03:01:16 PM

Paper money will long exist. This is not just a means to pay for goods or services. It is a habit and an indicator of prestige

I think true of paper money not only to pay for an item, although in the future will all be completely online or digital, but the currency symbol will definitely be in the form of paper money

JC btc

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Quote from: jossiel on January 16, 2017, 10:59:39 AM

Quote from: justdimin on January 15, 2017, 01:34:44 PM

Quote from: jossiel on January 14, 2017, 05:54:13 AM

should I say that both are not safe for the possibility of any crimes can be committed regardless on how you are tight in securing yourself with it.

Let's just use both for whatever good purpose that we can. Because it depends on the individual users on they are convenient with it.

And I'm convenient on using them both and I can adopt whether the future of paper money will be obsolete or will remain.

Using bitcoin might seem safer because you are hidden from any control by banks or governments and it is a good thing because hackers can’t get to you and steal your bank account but it is also a bad thing.

Using bitcoin made the life of drug dealers and hackers a much easier way to sell their illegal services on the internet without being tracked down, but as you said it depends on how the user uses either bitcoin or paper money.

Just like what I had said, that both are not safe whether it is paper money or bitcoin because it can be both used with filthy crimes.

But I do understand that paper money will remain as it is the one that is being supported by the government and they total control for it.

Unlike with bitcoin, they don't have.

That is true and that would be the reason why government wont eliminate paper money but can accept bitcoin as a legal digital currency.
Really, both can use in crime but the control of the government is really the main issue here. Nowadays, here in my country they are already studying the possible ways in which they can control bitcoin.

jossiel

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Quote from: justdimin on January 15, 2017, 01:34:44 PM

Quote from: jossiel on January 14, 2017, 05:54:13 AM

should I say that both are not safe for the possibility of any crimes can be committed regardless on how you are tight in securing yourself with it.

Let's just use both for whatever good purpose that we can. Because it depends on the individual users on they are convenient with it.

And I'm convenient on using them both and I can adopt whether the future of paper money will be obsolete or will remain.

Using bitcoin might seem safer because you are hidden from any control by banks or governments and it is a good thing because hackers can’t get to you and steal your bank account but it is also a bad thing.

Using bitcoin made the life of drug dealers and hackers a much easier way to sell their illegal services on the internet without being tracked down, but as you said it depends on how the user uses either bitcoin or paper money.

Just like what I had said, that both are not safe whether it is paper money or bitcoin because it can be both used with filthy crimes.

But I do understand that paper money will remain as it is the one that is being supported by the government and they total control for it.

Unlike with bitcoin, they don't have.

Mbah Slamet

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I have a special prediction that paper money will disappear and be replaced with digital money. many financial experts who suggested to immediately replace the paper money, which is still often the case is fake money and by the existence of digital money can control the State of course full of money in circulation.

In addition, suspicious transactions and money laundering will be easily corrected if using digital money.

Topic: The future of the paper money - page 155. (Read 416566 times)