Topic: The Holy Grail! I wish I could kiss the author of Bitmessage on his face. - page 15. (Read 92725 times)

Quote from: johnyj on May 22, 2013, 03:42:57 AM

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

In a traditional bank system, bank A open an account in bank B and bank B open an account in bank A, and they can do transactions both way. But due to bitcoin is not a single entity, traditional banks can open accounts in bitcoin network while bitcoin network can not open a bank account at traditional bank, only individuals can

I still think localbitcoins.com is better than the idea of P2P exchange

I don't think a lot of people realise this but localbitcoins.com is actually a centralised server model ... and does anyone know how much data they retain about all the recorded transactions/messaging that passes through their server? ... wonder which jurisdiction/locale the localbitcoins.com server is located in and what their privacy policy is by the way?

The advantage of OT is just if government raids an OT server, they will get nothing, no store of currency, no meaningful transaction record, no destruction of operator identity(if he remains strictly pseudonymous and uses Tor) , he can just find another server and get online again.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: lexxus on May 22, 2013, 03:54:33 AM

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

In a traditional bank system, bank A open an account in bank B and bank B open an account in bank A, and they can do transactions both way. But due to bitcoin is not a single entity, traditional banks can open accounts in bitcoin network while bitcoin network can not open a bank account at traditional bank, only individuals can

I still think localbitcoins.com is better than the idea of P2P exchange

I don't think a lot of people realise this but localbitcoins.com is actually a centralised server model ... and does anyone know how much data they retain about all the recorded transactions/messaging that passes through their server? ... wonder which jurisdiction/locale the localbitcoins.com server is located in and what their privacy policy is by the way?

oakpacific

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Probably better to stay on topic, everyone.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

Ok, let's crowdfund that Wink

This won't work. Any bank that starts OT server will be closed for violating AML.

If you reached central banks level, AML is not a concern anymore, all the money is laundered from the central bank at the first place

klee

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Quote from: Rampion on May 22, 2013, 03:58:18 AM

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

This or commodities to cryptos..

lexxus

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Quote from: lexxus on May 22, 2013, 03:54:33 AM

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

Ok, let's crowdfund that Wink

This won't work. Any bank that starts OT server will be closed for violating AML.

Indeed.

So let's buy a bank in the Virgin Islands.

This won't help either. Even if it's not closed, what's the point in a bank that is banned from dealing within international banking network?

BTCLuke

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My other Avatar is also Scrooge McDuck

I'm really tired of people confusing IOUs with value.

With cryptocurrency, you can move the Value online, but with fiat currencies, all OT and ripple can move is an IOU for that currency/commodity, and then you've created a central point of failure as people collect their IOUs.

A cryptocurrency P2P exchange we can make right now; overcoming the value problem is the only problem we're stuck on.

To save time, I've summed up the process (with pics!) and streamlined the criteria for a real P2P distributed exchange here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/primer-for-a-p2p-distributed-exchange-212841

Rampion

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Quote from: lexxus on May 22, 2013, 03:54:33 AM

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

Ok, let's crowdfund that Wink

This won't work. Any bank that starts OT server will be closed for violating AML.

Indeed.

So let's buy a bank in the Virgin Islands.

klee

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From that pastebin:

"9. Alice's Escrow awakens in 1-5 minutes, and starts periodically checking (via SEPA calls) to see if BOB_SEPA has received the Euros. If so, she automatically releases the Escrow to Jorg's silver account on OT."

This escrow must be able to check the banking transaction via SEPA calls, and I suppose without a formal contract with banks, he won't be able to listen to those calls

Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

The core problem is, all of the exchanges today still operate inside a banking framework (the exchange must have a bank account to operate). In order to bypass the existing banking system, there should first be a P2P bank that stores fiat money, that bank could in turn carry its exchange without the involvement of traditional banks

Voucher safe solves this -why don't you people forget the whole cryptos<->fiat thing? It will be a point of failure unless a P2P bank is established (dream on)..

lexxus

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Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

Ok, let's crowdfund that Wink

This won't work. Any bank that starts OT server will be closed for violating AML.

oakpacific

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Drama....

Quote

We, opencoin, are a project that started in 2007 to create an open source version of the electronic cash system invented by David Chaum. It is about minting tokens that can be transfered in a non-tracable way. It is fast, and the user has full flexibility on how to do the transfer.

We have nothing to do with "OpenCoin Inc.", a new company that is developing the ripple network. Unfortunately they decided in 2012 to name their company the same as our project. That creates a bit of confusion, as both are about electronic transfers.

So, if you want open source digital cash, opencoin.org (or our repo on github) is the place to be. If you want an account based system like the ripple network, it is not.

From http://opencoin.org/Members/jhb/opencoin-and-ripple

CryptoCat

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I think someone has to call the Winklevoss twins or someone with a lot money and tell them to start a p2p bank Cheesy

Following this Thread, i'm curious about future development!

Rampion

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Just like a gateway in ripple, this is the point of weakness for all the P2P exchange design: That escrow/gateway must be able to communicate with banks through an authorized channel and that channel is controlled by banks

Yes, as long as you have to communicate with legacy bank systems, you will have to follow their rules and regulations KYC etc...
Do not expect this to make proper exchanges obsolete all of the sudden. You need to take the commerce completely out of legacy bank system to not depended on whims of the banks. Or we could just buy a few banks... and have them run some OT servers.

Ok, let's crowdfund that Wink

minimalB

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This is truly amazing!

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination