Topic: the huge Problem that most people doesn't really understand - page 5. (Read 9405 times)

You know, I thought bitcoin was championed by libertarians, but now that I've discovered bitcointalk, I've found that it's actually liberals who want to believe that they're libertarians for some reason.

Since you're not going to present any sources, I'll take the first step. Here's one from CNN that shows the purchasing power of the minimum wage since 1938 to present.

http://economy.money.cnn.com/2013/02/14/minimum-wage-history/

This is CNN, a left wing source, mind you. It shows that purchasing power peaked at approximately $10 in the 1960s, but today it is still higher than in the '80s or '90s, in spite of all the sob stories from liberals. If even CNN admits this much, then it's case closed, I'm afraid.

You gonna explain why I'm wrong or are you gonna let your fallacy spaghetti?

Yes, according to your sources in the Huffington Post. Thanks for sharing.

Guys, a quick search online will show that minimum wage has NOT kept up with inflation in the US.  Minimum wage should be around $11+ atm, and that's before taking into account increases in the standard of living and productivity.

How about my Whopper Jr. inflation index? One burger cost 25 cents here in 1983, and now it is $1.

1 x (0.25/30) = 0.00833 ... so less than 1% inflation each year.

See, it's easy to come up with any bullshit number if you focus on only one arbitrary item.

The notion that the price index is rising 11% year over year is ridiculous. Most of these goods that shoot up in price such as tobacco and gasoline are the result of increasing global demand and taxation, rather than inflation.

Within the US, the deception goes much deeper than that.  For example, the official CPI (Consumer Price Index of inflation) deliberately excludes prices in food or energy; which just happen to be two of the most important things that people around the world really need.  Also, changes in real estate are not directly considered; instead a massaged number called "Owner's Equivilant Rent" is included. 

This is something that is completely true. Alot of things have been becoming more expensive than the official inflation level says. Then some things have become cheaper. But the things that have become cheaper are often unnecessary products like clothes that are cheaper and of lower quality and not essentials like bread and gasoline.

The items that have become cheaper are often the ones that are produced abroad in low cost countries whereas the products made domestically are becoming more expensive. This means that the reduced cost of some goods are not due to better technology and hence lower cost in one's own country but due the fact that other people elsewhere make less money working.

Hence the reality of situation is that inflation is understated, not according to economic theory, but in practice for people. The result is that you can say that inflation is low if you also accept the greater economical differences that a globalized economic system bring. I'm not saying this is a bad thing per se in the long run, I'm just saying that the goods that become cheaper and count towards lower inflation are not saying the whole truth about the domestic economy and hence cannot be counted as a true measure of inflation for the individual.

I hope this makes sense.

Hope you haven't eaten Whoppers from 1994 till now

I think the combo meal is almost $10 now. Yes, they are more expensive here in Hawaii than the mainland, but they were still only a $1 back in 1994.

Whoppers must be really expensive where you live. I can order a junior whopper off the dollar menu... so that's $1 if I'm not mistaken (in 2013!).

$7.95 for a Whopper?? You must be referring to the combo meal at least, right?

For me, I track local inflation using the Whopper Index. The price of a whopper at the local Burger King is going up faster than 11% per year.

In 1994, a whopper was exactly $1 here. It is currently $7.95 here.

7.95^(1/19)=1.1152 and most of the price increases have been in the last couple years.

That is over 11% inflation during the last 19 years.

The media is lying to us about inflation, for example: http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/29/news/economy/relative-prices/

This is due to the hedonics adjustment in the CPI index. They are saying that a modern television is 50 times better than one from 1983, but the free market says otherwise. For example:

I can buy a new CRT television (old design like in the 70's) in the Philippines for about $100 vs. an LED television of the same size for about $250 there. I guess that the free market only sees the new ones as being 2.5 times better design.

Also, here in the USA, I work at an ewaste recycle center 3 days a week (no is allowed to work over 29 hours a week thanks to Obamacare). An old CRT television in good shape sells for about $20, while a plasma TV of about the same size sells for about $50, and LED of the same size for about $100. So even here in the USA, the new LED TVs are only worth 5 times more according to the free market.

In neither country does the free market consider a new LED television to be worth 50 times more than an old style CRT television. Those CPI numbers are a straight lie.

Most of my co-workers make minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, even the ones that have been here for years. Jobs are scarce and my boss has no problems hiring new ones to replace the old ones. And I have seen his books, he is barely surviving. Anyway, I was handed the wrong paycheck once and discovered that my co-workers are earning about $750 per month. I don't know how they survive after paying rent. Most of them get food stamps.

I fix the computers here that people (mostly schools & government offices) throw away or sell the chips out of them on Ebay. Since they are basically free for us, I also make sure that every employee gets a refurbished laptop for free. Most of them have never owned a computer before. A couple of the girls started crying when I gave them one. That is how poor they are.

Wages are NOT keeping up with inflation. People at the bottom are starting to hurt. I am lucky enough that I always saved some of my earnings in precious metals over the years, so I had savings to invest in bitcoin. I have good job skills and can show my boss each month how much money I made for him fixing and selling discarded ewaste, so I have job security. I also own a piece of land up in the jungle area with a cabin in the back, so I don't pay any rent. I get free computer stuff from work, but I still spend money on food and gas. As I see the prices constantly go up on those two things, I alway wonder, how do normal people survive?

I really hope bitcoin reverses this trend of falling real wages.

I agree. That kind of elitism doesn't fit with the true nature of bitcoin.
Having said that, i wouldn't mind some grammar nazi's fixing my english. Sometimes they help you get better   

choosing Cigarette and gasoline as first examples were not a coincidence, I also did mention bread but you seemed ignorant about that, however if you were as educated and talented as you pretend you would know why I choose these 3 examples, I will explain more: Sin taxes are a common trick governments use (google it I don't want to go out of subject by writing 10 pages about how that works) Gasoline is also a merit that you should know about right!  

I admit my bad habit of smoking, but how the price of gasoline does fall into the same box of people like me who "refuses" to be rich? care to explain more ...

Just ignore people like that. I like this board because I get to hear the viewpoints of many different people. All should be welcome to share, whether English is their primary language or not.

OP mentions cigarettes and gasoline. Typical expenses for people who willingly refuse to be rich and throw their hard-earned money at the first thing that relieves them from the grind. A grind they insist on suffering through their irrational spending.

What most people don't really understand is that capitalism is about exploiting you for 8 hours a day and taking your money from you the following 8 hours in exchange for a quick shot of comfort.

The poor might want to invest a little, they could actually get rich!

Seriously, the more I read about this topic, the more I wish for a world where everyone were taught financial education in their infancy. I hope I can contribute to that goal along my life.

thank you for the kind advice.