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Topic: The mother of all traps? (Read 8139 times)

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
September 17, 2013, 02:41:20 PM
even as a bitcoin bull myself this looks like a trap to me. too much too fast and for what reason? is there some breaking news i missed?

here's a refreshing hypothesis: it's actual new money coming in due to 6 week old news (incubation time of new a bitcoiner (from first contact to first buy) is roughly 6 weeks)

So I looked at 6 week old news and found: "liberty reserve busted".


that is a refreshing hypotheses. i hope you are right.

maybe part of this rally actually is bitcoin being used as a substitute for LR. After all, Liberty Reserve was moving huge sums, right? That would be so funny: The FEDs saved Bitcoin ;-)

indictment said they processed 1.4B annually with 6B total over the course of the enterprise

you should take a moment to read some of it when you have a chance and note the concept of pre-approved third party exchanges

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/159108750/Indictment-Liberty-Reserve-et-al_-Kats_-Marmilev
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 17, 2013, 02:13:24 PM
even as a bitcoin bull myself this looks like a trap to me. too much too fast and for what reason? is there some breaking news i missed?

here's a refreshing hypothesis: it's actual new money coming in due to 6 week old news (incubation time of new a bitcoiner (from first contact to first buy) is roughly 6 weeks)

So I looked at 6 week old news and found: "liberty reserve busted".


that is a refreshing hypotheses. i hope you are right.

maybe part of this rally actually is bitcoin being used as a substitute for LR. After all, Liberty Reserve was moving huge sums, right? That would be so funny: The FEDs saved Bitcoin ;-)
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 17, 2013, 02:10:13 PM
As of now, it looks like it was a good call  Cool

Extremely good call!
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
September 17, 2013, 01:27:18 PM


If I remember correctly this pattern on weekly is called "bullish engulfing" which is a reversal pattern. What it practically means is that it should go above 105 and stay above it, then reversal is confirmed and it is rally time for 5-15 weeks. For all I know it could end up above 500$.

On clarkmoody's weekly chart we have quite an awesome hammer in reversal pattern too (they build weekly chart a bit differently there)

Also the fact that all the bitcointalk bulls are so bearish is a dead giveaway that market will actually reverse to punish the suckers as it always tries to inflict the maximum pain on them.

Moreover, on daily chart (clarkmoody), it appears today we have broken over descending trendline on high volume simultaneously going over both moving averages at the same time. Lots of technicals are pointing to reversal. Your typical TA guru here would be advising to wait a few days for confirmation i.e. a few more daily candles closing above 105$ to get a high probability entrance onto the next up legs that is likely to develop into the x-mas from here on.

As I have predicted earlier all the suckers who bought in 260's have sold all their coins to those suckers who sold in 70's by now, as such the market have no purpose to stay here and it can finally move on.

[..]

Let's actually wait and see.

So we've waited and we've seen it (more to come). Who called the bottom? (Note that quoted chart is automatically updated and the call was made on July 12th)


As of now, it looks like it was a good call  Cool
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 03, 2013, 01:25:35 AM
#99
I guess it wasn't a trap. We now sitting at $130 to $140.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1004
September 02, 2013, 07:36:40 PM
#98
i'm strapped in and ready for the ride, i won't be missing out on it
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 01, 2013, 02:03:19 PM
#97
So far the mother of all traps is "BUY at $266".

It was "BUY at $32".

In the next year I suspect it will be "BUY at $500 to $1000".

Dude I was missing you.
A big buy happens, price shoots up 8% and here you are!

Thanks. In a way you're good for the mood. Smiley

Price jumped 80% now?....

Someone should be making Bitcoin seat belts to fasten themselves in for this next rocket.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
July 19, 2013, 10:00:57 AM
#96
So far the mother of all traps is "BUY at $266".

It was "BUY at $32".

In the next year I suspect it will be "BUY at $500 to $1000".

Dude I was missing you.
A big buy happens, price shoots up 8% and here you are!

Thanks. In a way you're good for the mood. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
July 19, 2013, 01:05:29 AM
#95
So far the mother of all traps is "BUY at $266".

It was "BUY at $32".

In the next year I suspect it will be "BUY at $500 to $1000".
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
July 18, 2013, 07:39:14 AM
#94
Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
It never was. What you're talking about is being able to set an unfunded "placeholder" order that doesn't appear in the order book until the funds arrive, and the order is either partly or fully activated.

Exactly. BTW: lucas.sev, do you trade or just comment? I'm curious.

I trade few times a month. Still very new to trading. I used bitcoin in 2011, and heard about them before but was too young to think of them as an investment. Also, suspecting where the question comes from: I do not believe comments on this forum have ANY power over the price.

I was just surprised by the "it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account" statement.

Those orders placed with no money never did shit, the trading platform clearly said "not enough funds" and those non-backed orders never appeared on the order book. If you were trading just a couple months ago you would have known.

I never tried placing them that's why I did not know, but I remember there was an announcement from mtgox that it is no longer to place orders when you have not enough funds.

Yep, that was a DDoS related improvement. People abused the trading engine by placing thousands of non-backed orders that flooded the system while having no practical effect on the book or the trading itself. This is why they couldn't fight DDoS just by standard means.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 18, 2013, 07:33:43 AM
#93
Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
It never was. What you're talking about is being able to set an unfunded "placeholder" order that doesn't appear in the order book until the funds arrive, and the order is either partly or fully activated.

Exactly. BTW: lucas.sev, do you trade or just comment? I'm curious.

I trade few times a month. Still very new to trading. I used bitcoin in 2011, and heard about them before but was too young to think of them as an investment. Also, suspecting where the question comes from: I do not believe comments on this forum have ANY power over the price.

I was just surprised by the "it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account" statement.

Those orders placed with no money never did shit, the trading platform clearly said "not enough funds" and those non-backed orders never appeared on the order book. If you were trading just a couple months ago you would have known.

I never tried placing them that's why I did not know, but I remember there was an announcement from mtgox that it is no longer to place orders when you have not enough funds.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
July 18, 2013, 06:24:45 AM
#92
Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
It never was. What you're talking about is being able to set an unfunded "placeholder" order that doesn't appear in the order book until the funds arrive, and the order is either partly or fully activated.

Exactly. BTW: lucas.sev, do you trade or just comment? I'm curious.

I trade few times a month. Still very new to trading. I used bitcoin in 2011, and heard about them before but was too young to think of them as an investment. Also, suspecting where the question comes from: I do not believe comments on this forum have ANY power over the price.

I was just surprised by the "it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account" statement.

Those orders placed with no money never did shit, the trading platform clearly said "not enough funds" and those non-backed orders never appeared on the order book. If you were trading just a couple months ago you would have known.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 18, 2013, 06:18:57 AM
#91
Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
It never was. What you're talking about is being able to set an unfunded "placeholder" order that doesn't appear in the order book until the funds arrive, and the order is either partly or fully activated.

Exactly. BTW: lucas.sev, do you trade or just comment? I'm curious.

I trade few times a month. Still very new to trading. I used bitcoin in 2011, and heard about them before (people mining them with radeons 5970) but was too young to think of them as an investment. Also, suspecting where the question comes from: I do not believe comments on this forum have ANY power over the price.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
July 18, 2013, 05:53:39 AM
#90
Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
It never was. What you're talking about is being able to set an unfunded "placeholder" order that doesn't appear in the order book until the funds arrive, and the order is either partly or fully activated.

Exactly. BTW: lucas.sev, do you trade or just comment? I'm curious.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
July 18, 2013, 05:49:31 AM
#89
Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
It never was. What you're talking about is being able to set an unfunded "placeholder" order that doesn't appear in the order book until the funds arrive, and the order is either partly or fully activated.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 18, 2013, 05:48:28 AM
#88

You will lose that bet big time.

I can give you two facts:

a) I personally withdrew *big time* after the april 10th collapse (at the very beginning of June to be precise).

b) the ATH fiat on Gox's order book its been +$22M. For the last month it has been fluctuating between $11M and $13M. Sure that doesn't represent ALL the fiat on Gox, but the "visible" amount is inevitable correlated with the "invisible" amount.

Most of speculators realize their fiat profits (or cut their losses) after a bubble pop. Most are in this to make money, its summer and everybody can use some profits.

My view is that the book is worth less than money sitting in the sidelines. I suppose you do not share this view?

I share it, I think the book is only a % of the total amount of money in the sidelines, something around 30% and 50% - but still I think the % is pretty consistent and can be used to have a rough idea of the money flow.

At the very beginning of 2013 there were $2M on Gox's book, and that figure was pretty much constant since Sept. 2012. From February 2013 the fiat in Gox's order book started to skyrocket, until it reached +$23M at the bubble top. IMO that represents A LOT of new money flowing to Gox, and the recent halving of the order book money represents a slow but steady declining of fiat. The book is no reliable indicator and its easily manipulable, but still it gives a rough picture that is useful to check the buying and selling pressure in certain points.

Rembember that it was possible to set orders without actually having money in the account not so long ago. Wonder how much this skewed the book.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
July 18, 2013, 05:27:54 AM
#87

You will lose that bet big time.

I can give you two facts:

a) I personally withdrew *big time* after the april 10th collapse (at the very beginning of June to be precise).

b) the ATH fiat on Gox's order book its been +$22M. For the last month it has been fluctuating between $11M and $13M. Sure that doesn't represent ALL the fiat on Gox, but the "visible" amount is inevitable correlated with the "invisible" amount.

Most of speculators realize their fiat profits (or cut their losses) after a bubble pop. Most are in this to make money, its summer and everybody can use some profits.

My view is that the book is worth less than money sitting in the sidelines. I suppose you do not share this view?

I share it, I think the book is only a % of the total amount of money in the sidelines, something around 30% and 50% - but still I think the % is pretty consistent and can be used to have a rough idea of the money flow.

At the very beginning of 2013 there were $2M on Gox's book, and that figure was pretty much constant since Sept. 2012. From February 2013 the fiat in Gox's order book started to skyrocket, until it reached +$23M at the bubble top. IMO that represents A LOT of new money flowing to Gox, and the recent halving of the order book money represents a slow but steady declining of fiat. The book is no reliable indicator and its easily manipulable, but still it gives a rough picture that is useful to check the buying and selling pressure in certain points.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 18, 2013, 05:17:56 AM
#86

You will lose that bet big time.

I can give you two facts:

a) I personally withdrew *big time* after the april 10th collapse (at the very beginning of June to be precise).

b) the ATH fiat on Gox's order book its been +$22M. For the last month it has been fluctuating between $11M and $13M. Sure that doesn't represent ALL the fiat on Gox, but the "visible" amount is inevitable correlated with the "invisible" amount.

Most of speculators realize their fiat profits (or cut their losses) after a bubble pop. Most are in this to make money, its summer and everybody can use some profits.

My view is that the book is worth less than money sitting in the sidelines. I suppose you do not share this view?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
July 18, 2013, 05:11:06 AM
#85
Trap currently closing. Pretty funny situation as there is more than a 10% divergence between Bitstamp and Gox; the inability to withdraw fiat from Gox is distorting the price and will probably extend the pain for the bulls in denial, as an impulsive move down is pretty much pointless if the fiat cannot be withdrawn by the traders.

Do you seriously think that many people withdrew money after the 10april collapse? My bet is that there is at least the same amount of fiat/btc worth of fiat in the mtgox accounts, in different hands though.

You will lose that bet big time.

I can give you two facts:

a) I personally withdrew *big time* after the april 10th collapse (at the very beginning of June to be precise).

b) the ATH fiat on Gox's order book its been +$22M. For the last month it has been fluctuating between $11M and $13M. Sure that doesn't represent ALL the fiat on Gox, but the "visible" amount is inevitable correlated with the "invisible" amount.

Most of speculators realize their fiat profits (or cut their losses) after a bubble pop. Most are in this to make money, its summer and everybody can use some profits.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
July 18, 2013, 04:59:01 AM
#84
Trap currently closing. Pretty funny situation as there is more than a 10% divergence between Bitstamp and Gox; the inability to withdraw fiat from Gox is distorting the price and will probably extend the pain for the bulls in denial, as an impulsive move down is pretty much pointless if the fiat cannot be withdrawn by the traders.

Do you seriously think that many people withdrew money after the 10april collapse? My bet is that there is at least the same amount of fiat/btc worth of fiat in the mtgox accounts, in different hands though.
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