Topic: The new design of BFL Single (Read 6566 times)

Peterepeat deleted his original post lol.

But to address my ignore button. There are a ton of pansies on this forum that can't handle the truth. I just like to shove it in the faces of idiots, morons, liars, and scammers.

  I call it the pussy ignore button. You should press it peterepeat.

So a 5kilowatt home clothes dryer is half 'very dangerous'?

A 10kw residential load is very unusual, but so long as it is a modern house with 200A service and the heat is vented outside though the practical limit for a load is more like 5000W due to plug/breaker/wire pricing issues.

A 6-30R plug would be the way to go.  It can do 6600W peak, taken to 80% it is 5200W. 

Talking about majorities - maybe you should read this here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-should-butterfly-labs-bfl-get-a-scammer-tag-155730

Reminds me of this here:

So...now to make your logic apply you are going for rarer and rarer types of residential installations?

Alright, lets play that game, now we are down to BFL ready® households with 100 amp fuses and multiple 240V lines.

A) Keep in mind that in the USA 110 is the standard while 240V is an exception. I have never seen a residence with lots of 240v lines.

B) I have never heard of 1 PC power supply that can supply 10kilowatts. So unless you also employ a veeeerrry rare 100amp fuse installation....with I suppose 4 gauge wiring...you are talking about multiple plugs of 240V and 8kw to 10kw heat dissipation into a normal non-air conditioned residence.

C) Lets not talk about adding air conditioning to add to the power equation or exacerbate the situation. Instead lets imagine that the typical household as being near or on the artic circle.

Alrighty, let move on.

Your statement flies in the face of BFL's original intent....to provide power efficient MiniRigs. Their power use was a main selling point.

This is not the fault of the customer that BFL failed to live up to this. This is also not a fallacy to have believed BFL's advertising.

Again, you are thinking through this in hindsight.

At the time the MiniRigs were being sold they were designed and spec'ed well within the ratings of a household. You are either new here or you are (for some reason) avoiding reality.

Irrelevant, they were on sale with a much different spec in the past. Now they are no longer available...I presume...because they fail to meet that spec.

FALSE.

These were not touted with commercial grade installations in mind. Hence, they are no longer on sale...see above.

Again, please return to reality when you are thinking up these posts!


False, you do not know where the money comes from to buy these rigs. Some people have said they have taken out loans and remortgaged their house. (No, I am not kidding)

Therefore you cannot assume that (by default) the buyers are somehow rich or have collocation ready to go. To assume this is to stretch reality to meet the merits of an argument.

Does it?

Face palm.

You do realize that 10kilowatts of heat dissipation in any home is very dangerous right? Your only option with a 10kilowatt heat profile is to have dedicated monitoring and a server grade rack.

Just keep in mind, this is not what the MiniRig was intended to require. It has a smartphone display integrated into the front of it for user monitoring. Therefore, unless the monitoring is coming from a person living at a datacenter...it was designed for residential applications. Otherwise, you would have seen server grade software and monitoring built into the device as is standard, in many commercial servers.

After the Power Issue reared it head, (when Kano was there) they had plans to add supplemental power supplies. Though, the Power issue is now estimated far beyond the spec of even that supplementary power supply. Hence, it is no mystery why it is "out of stock".

Hah, I think you need to go back to October and realize that you don't seem to know what you are talking about....

I think a hosting service close to KC will be perfect for these kind of purchase, also the maintainace will be much easier

Valid points, mostly. However, first I have to correct my math. I calculated the amperage for 110v power, so if we are figuring 240v power, it's actually only 31.25aps.

However, a 100 amp fuse should be fine to run a 62.5 amp device, even if that were the case, round the clock. If there are people planning on buying multiple devices @$30,000/pop and running them on residential power, that's a fallacy on the part of those individuals, and not the fault of BFL. For one, they're not even listing it as available, but anybody planning on putting multiple machines like that on a residential service main is seriously failing at logic.

These machines (though they're not even available for presale at this time) assuming a high power consumption or not, are intended for commercial-grade installations. People with that kind of cash to throw at mining rigs have dedicated, air-conditioned server rooms, powered by industrial-grade electrical wiring systems, with battery backup systems, backed up by generators, etc.

If you've got $30,000 to drop per machine, on a few machines, you've got the money to put it in a proper home. That means leasing a small amount of dedicated space in a datacenter.

If you're just going to buy one, you can get away with running it at your home, but you're gonna have to consider its power consumption needs, and possibly hire an electrician to put in a dedicated circuit for you (again, if you've got $30k, you can afford to have this done).

If people are planning on hooking it up in their college dorm room, they probably need to consider a different approach.

But none of this has anything to do with whether BFL should actually move forward with the project or not.

An interesting phenomenon: The total amount of mining electricity is higher when more people are mining, thus bitcoin price will also be higher. But if some of the miners are using high efficient mining devices, they will actually squeeze the low efficient miners out and reduce the total amount of electricity used, and that will in turn reduce the bitcoin price

Of course high efficient mining devices typically require a higher initial investment, so it is kind of difficult to evaluate the total cost of the network hashing power

One quick correction to your numbers. The national electrical code states that circuit conductors that are fed by a breaker on a continuous load can only be loaded to 80%. #12 wire rated at 20 amps, derated to 16 amps continuous = 16 x 120 = 1920 watts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code

You would need an 80amp circuit to pull 7500 watts to run a 1500GH/s unit (assuming 5w/GH).

Well....

Actually that was the plan of a couple of MiniRig owners. Go read up on the BFL forum.

Now that the specs are all over the place, that idea is toast.

I take it you are new to the concept of electrical nodes. Seriously, there is no way to utilize that much power....safely...with 24/7/365 operation.

Residential power is to be used while living. Having something drawing that amount of dangerous load 24x7 is unusual and unsafe. Your wires on a hot day would probably catch fire. I have 173 amps installed in my home. I use my home for "other things" than simply a wooden [flammable] structure to house my mining device.

It could be said that the Minirig is now incompatible with residential power.

And before you tout 240V. Keep in mind that those are usually reserved for 1 outlet or maybe 2 per residence. Keeping 8KW+~10KW+ on a 240V plug is not safe. Even if you divide it into two units. More than 2 units and you won't find many (or any) normal residences that have that many outlets rated at 240V. (In the USA)

Again, you are mixing a dedicated installation with appropriate safety (implied) with that of a mining unit that will consume almost an entire households electrical box.

Could you pull it off? Probably.

Would it be practical...unlikely.

Would it be safe for 24x7/365 operation...hell no.

About 2400 watts on a standard 20amp breaker. Of course, anybody who's serious about putting in a mining farm isn't going to just plug their shit into a standard outlet and walk away.

Residential power can easily throw down 200a @240v. or 48,000 watts, or enough to run 1600 jalapenos @30watts. There's literally ZERO chance of anybody over-drawing residential power with BFL equipment.

If you're talking about their 1500Gh units, even if you assume 5watts/Gh that's still only 62.5 amps. Plenty of residential hot tubs drawing WAY more than that...

Interestingly so is a 100 watt light bulb.  Coincidence?   

Mini rigs are not for your typical miner

I would cancel all mini rig orders if I were BFL. There is no way at 5watts/GHs that product will work unless you have 3 phase installed, or they get some wafers done with fabrication way smaller than 65nm. In either case it's back to the drawing board on that one. How much power can you pull from a typical US domestic power outlet?

Thanks for the story, a potential MiniRig purchase   Hope Josh could read this 

Avalon has all the R&D people and manufacturer contacts in one place, BFL contracted out some part of their operation, an integrated  solution is always slower than a whole solution

But I really think it's good that they don't have MiniRig offering now, this product will kick the difficulty to moon and hurt almost everyone's profit, very bad 

My point is ,yes it has far less wattage then a toaster but it has the wattage of 1.5 easy bake ovens. You probably wont be able to make toast on one but you may be able to make some delicious tiny cakes They should use that as a selling point

Think about Elden Tyrell's "Process invariant" metrics.  So, apparently, both Avalon and ASICMiner have designed an ASIC on an older process node that is more computationally efficient.


This is a bearish sign for BFL.  Especially in the fact that ASICMiner is already moving forward with their newer process node designs.



We all know who's full of BS and who's not now.  Re-structure your plans.

My LED torch is only 1 watt, and your point is exactly?

An easy bake oven is only 100 watts

here are much bastard who's copying me ideas ...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1849955