The official BitcoinPaperWallet.com thread -- updates and news. - page 5.

413j0

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Quote from: niko on May 28, 2013, 02:05:06 PM

Quote from: canton on May 28, 2013, 11:37:53 AM

Quote from: 413j0 on May 23, 2013, 05:21:51 AM

have you tried alumajet (http://www.horizonsisg.com/alumajet.html)

That looks *neat*. Is it at all waterproof? Or does dropping a bit of water on it cause the ink to run? Maybe "alumajet" plus something like Krylon Preserve It spray would be an interesting combo. Speaking most generally though, isn't aluminum a pretty "reactive" metal? Not sure it's a good choice for long-term storage... But agree this would be gorgeous e.g. for gifting bitcoins short-term!

It looks neat, but devil is in the details. You are right that aluminum in itself is extremely reactive - so much that it will immediately react with oxygen to form a layer of aluminum oxide on its surface. Any ordinary piece of aluminum you see around is at least self-passivated this way. Alumajet is claimed to be "anodized aluminum" - which means processed to increase the thickness of the oxide layer. While aluminum oxide - think of it as a ceramic - is relatively inert, it is far from durable. Both acids and basescan weaken it. Thermal expansion is ways different from that of underlying aluminum, leading to cracking from hot/cold cycles, then to related localized corrosion. Finally, to be inkjettable, ideally it needs to be somewhat porous. If porous, it's not good passivating layer. Even the manufacturer recommends laminating signs printed on alumajet.

I like the idea behind the product, and might even try printing some photos (color management nightmare, probably), but would not trust it for btc wallet any more than paper.

actually it has some sort of special covering on one side which is the printable one (has to be single face, but it folds nicely) because the ink doesn't stick well on the other side.
and it can tolerate some water when printed with a regular canon printer

niko

hero member

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: canton on May 28, 2013, 11:37:53 AM

Quote from: 413j0 on May 23, 2013, 05:21:51 AM

have you tried alumajet (http://www.horizonsisg.com/alumajet.html)

That looks *neat*. Is it at all waterproof? Or does dropping a bit of water on it cause the ink to run? Maybe "alumajet" plus something like Krylon Preserve It spray would be an interesting combo. Speaking most generally though, isn't aluminum a pretty "reactive" metal? Not sure it's a good choice for long-term storage... But agree this would be gorgeous e.g. for gifting bitcoins short-term!

It looks neat, but devil is in the details. You are right that aluminum in itself is extremely reactive - so much that it will immediately react with oxygen to form a layer of aluminum oxide on its surface. Any ordinary piece of aluminum you see around is at least self-passivated this way. Alumajet is claimed to be "anodized aluminum" - which means processed to increase the thickness of the oxide layer. While aluminum oxide - think of it as a ceramic - is relatively inert, it is far from durable. Both acids and basescan weaken it. Thermal expansion is ways different from that of underlying aluminum, leading to cracking from hot/cold cycles, then to related localized corrosion. Finally, to be inkjettable, ideally it needs to be somewhat porous. If porous, it's not good passivating layer. Even the manufacturer recommends laminating signs printed on alumajet.

I like the idea behind the product, and might even try printing some photos (color management nightmare, probably), but would not trust it for btc wallet any more than paper.

canton

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Activity: 261

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Quote from: 413j0 on May 23, 2013, 05:21:51 AM

have you tried alumajet (http://www.horizonsisg.com/alumajet.html)

That looks *neat*. Is it at all waterproof? Or does dropping a bit of water on it cause the ink to run? Maybe "alumajet" plus something like Krylon Preserve It spray would be an interesting combo. Speaking most generally though, isn't aluminum a pretty "reactive" metal? Not sure it's a good choice for long-term storage... But agree this would be gorgeous e.g. for gifting bitcoins short-term!

sgravina

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Activity: 451

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You can get paper that is the exact same quality as United States dollar bills. Just take a United States dollar bill and bleach it. I've heard of counterfeiters doing this. They take a one dollar bill, bleach it and print a hundred dollar bill on it.

413j0

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have you tried alumajet (http://www.horizonsisg.com/alumajet.html) i have printed in it and it looks great, and it is prety durable. Besides it would help making the wallets look valuable

413j0

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Quote from: exor674 on May 09, 2013, 02:21:45 PM

Quote from: canton on May 08, 2013, 11:29:36 AM

PS: If you decide not to buy a laser printer, there are some ways you can make your inkjet-printed wallets more water-resistant. I'll be posting a report on this soon as I'm in the process of testing a bunch of different products/solutions.

I'm slightly curious how well it'd work to do a three-pass print and not a two-pass. ( which makes this even closer to the other project, but... )

Print the front and back in color without the QR codes on some printer [ color laserjet, color inkjet? I wonder how it'd work if those ink could bleed when wet when the QR code couldn't? ], and then print the QR codes on a cheaper black and white laser printer.

This would probably also work for your "super paranoid" option, without having to buy a nice color laserjet and only use it for wallets.

[ However, I imagine the pain this would be to align and calibrate across two different printers ]

i would be wary of 3pass printing on a paranoid level, because a laser (like on the previos tests) with the correct frecuency coud candle the qr from 1 ink while the obscuring pattern having a different pigment could be transparent to that particular frecuency

StarfishPrime

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Canton: Thanks for all the work you've done optimising this paper wallet solution. It rocks.

Just printed a few tests using Teslin IJ (10 mil). Folds great, feel is similar to Australian etc. polymer notes.

Teslin IJ is synthetic and completely waterproof, soaked it in water for a few hours after printing on a standard HP inkjet just to see... Neither the material nor the printing was affected in the least. Can highly recommend.

jcw

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Cool, I think I'll try that out, thanks!

QuantumQrack

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Quote from: jcw on May 10, 2013, 11:18:22 AM

You're using Teslin with the tri-fold design? How many mm thick is that product, does it fold OK?

Folds easily. Its 10 mil thick. Strong.

75 mil Nickel

60 mil Penny

50 mil Dime

10 mil Business card

6 mil white trash bag used in kitchens

4 mil standard piece of paper

jcw

newbie

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You're using Teslin with the tri-fold design? How many mm thick is that product, does it fold OK?

QuantumQrack

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Activity: 337

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Quote from: canton on May 09, 2013, 06:02:03 PM

After a long search I finally found a perfectly transparent Ziplock bag that fits my design properly. This should hugely improve the life expectancy of wallets, especially when printed using inkjets. I'm expecting that these will not only mitigate water damage but also may reduce air-degredation (a problem for ink printers like HP that use heat activated instead of piezo heads.)

I'll probably have to trim about 1mm off of the height of my design to make it easier to load these baggies, but I think it's worth it since this is a more convenient protection compared to buying polyester paper or spray-on preservatives. I'll be adding these to the https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com site in a week or so for a nominal add-on fee.

What paper are you using? Just regular inkjet paper? I am using this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PX7Z3S/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teslin_(material)

joffrey

newbie

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Hi canton,

Just to let you know I used Bitcoinpaperwallet to offer bitcoins to a friend, for his birthday. It's fantastic, very easy to use, and the design of the wallet is really gorgeous. Sadly, I printed it in black and white (on a laser printer), but it was still really cool and he loved my gift.

Mind if I suggest you only one thing? To be able to use our own public addresses/private keys. I guess it wouldn't be very secure, but since it was a gift, I thought it could be funny if the public address was a vanity one that I generated before. Thus, I used your great tool but had to generate the QR codes somewhere else, and replace them along with the keys using the Chrome Inspector.

I don't know if you'd like to implement a feature like that, but hey, maybe you'll consider it.

Thanks!

canton

sr. member

Activity: 261

Merit: 285

Quote from: jcw on May 10, 2013, 12:42:08 AM

Also I am very interested in the combo design you posted earlier..Is that idea something that is still in the works?

Definitely in the works though there are some other items ahead of that in the queue, e.g. language translations, "two-up" design to save paper when printing. Also I need to get my head around BIP38 and see how the bitaddress.org implementation of BIP38 is progressing. (I think Pointbiz/bitaddress.org might only have decrypting right now, not encrypting?)

jcw

newbie

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Awesome. I'll be ordering some of these along with some stickers as soon as they're ready. How many wallets per bag would you recommend, is it 1 per?

Also I am very interested in the combo design you posted earlier. The use case for me is the left hand side (private key encrypted with a passphrase) could be kept in my actual wallet or somewhere reasonably accessible and the tear away part (with the plain text private key) would go in a zip lock bag in a secure place (e.g. a safety deposit box). Is that idea something that is still in the works?

canton

sr. member

Activity: 261

Merit: 285

After a long search I finally found a perfectly transparent Ziplock bag that fits my design properly. This should hugely improve the life expectancy of wallets, especially when printed using inkjets. I'm expecting that these will not only mitigate water damage but also may reduce air-degredation (a problem for ink printers like HP that use heat activated instead of piezo heads.)

I'll probably have to trim about 1mm off of the height of my design to make it easier to load these baggies, but I think it's worth it since this is a more convenient protection compared to buying polyester paper or spray-on preservatives. I'll be adding these to the https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com site in a week or so for a nominal add-on fee.

aantonop

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Entrepreneur, coder, hacker, pundit, humanist.

Quote from: canton on May 09, 2013, 03:20:53 PM

[...] he'll ship you professionally printed designs (offset printing) and then you just laserprint on the QR codes and alphanum keys in B&W.

I have upgraded the printing order, it will now be a full linotype press print, not digital offset, which will result in much much higher quality with brilliant color and durability of color. I received an incredible rush of pre-orders at the discounted price, which gave me confidence that I will sell all of them, so I upgraded all the parameters of the print production:

- Full lino press
- Micro-perforations instead of regular perforations - 72 cuts per inch, makes a completely smooth edge.
- A beautiful "Crown" brand, 80# weight, textile-weave textured white paper.
- Double volume: 2000 sheets (8000 wallets), instead of 1000

canton

sr. member

Activity: 261

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Quote from: exor674 on May 09, 2013, 02:21:45 PM

[ However, I imagine the pain this would be to align and calibrate across two different printers ]

This. Ow ow ow ow. Yes.

In any case, Aantonop's safe paper wallet project is definitely geared towards what you're describing here -- he'll ship you professionally printed designs (offset printing) and then you just laserprint on the QR codes and alphanum keys in B&W.

exor674

newbie

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Quote from: canton on May 08, 2013, 11:29:36 AM

PS: If you decide not to buy a laser printer, there are some ways you can make your inkjet-printed wallets more water-resistant. I'll be posting a report on this soon as I'm in the process of testing a bunch of different products/solutions.

I'm slightly curious how well it'd work to do a three-pass print and not a two-pass. ( which makes this even closer to the other project, but... )

Print the front and back in color without the QR codes on some printer [ color laserjet, color inkjet? I wonder how it'd work if those ink could bleed when wet when the QR code couldn't? ], and then print the QR codes on a cheaper black and white laser printer.

This would probably also work for your "super paranoid" option, without having to buy a nice color laserjet and only use it for wallets.

[ However, I imagine the pain this would be to align and calibrate across two different printers ]

canton

sr. member

Activity: 261

Merit: 285

Quote from: dhenson on May 08, 2013, 11:22:51 PM

We're lucky to have people like Canton in our community. I've used both his paper wallet site, and ordered stickers (which came amazingly fast). Thank you Canton, you are an amazing addition to the bitcoin community!

Thanks very much for the kind words, dhenson. Working on these designs combines a lot of my passions (cryptopunk, print design, web design, ecommerce, and STICKERS I love stickers) so it's nice to hear when this work is proving useful to other folks as well.

dhenson

legendary

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We're lucky to have people like Canton in our community. I've used both his paper wallet site, and ordered stickers (which came amazingly fast).

Thank you Canton, you are an amazing addition to the bitcoin community!

Topic: The official BitcoinPaperWallet.com thread -- updates and news. - page 5. (Read 55957 times)