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Topic: The only answer against Miners Mafia is UASF - page 5. (Read 7672 times)

member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
"Miner Mafia"?  please.

Bitcoin was always a miner vote system, if you read and understand
Satoshi's whitepaper, but somehow the miners
(70% of them) not signaling for Core's roadmap
is a now a mafia. right...


I agree with you. But do you not think it is possible for the miners to collude and conspire behind the scenes to get what they want? Tin foil hat on. But I believe there is an argument that the developers of BU are supported and controlled by the Chinese miners.

Quote

Bitmain would support Segwit WITH a HF block increase,
but Core will not compromise.  They would rather
not have segwit than increase the blocksize.
They are the obstructionists.



A block size increase is inevitable in my opinion. Why not be patient and support Segwit now and get a block size increase later?

Your argument is hypocritical seeing how core is being supported by the people that own patents for off chain tech and will syphon a shit ton of money from miners.
legendary
Activity: 3724
Merit: 3063
Leave no FUD unchallenged
Things have reached the point now where we absolutely place far too much emphasis on trusting what developers might or might not do in the future.  It's the same warped human trait that generally leads to two-party political systems in so called democracies.  It's undeniable now, we have central planning instead of decentralisation and a power struggle over which central planning political party we elect.  We've lost all sight of what was supposed to be a trustless system because you're all so quick to worship or denounce one particular group of personalities or another, as if the decision was theirs to begin with.  I honestly thought we were above that here, but evidently that isn't the case.

Stop begging for an overlord and an antichrist to fight to the death and make your decisions for you.  Shame on you all. 
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
"Miner Mafia"?  please.

Bitcoin was always a miner vote system, if you read and understand
Satoshi's whitepaper, but somehow the miners
(70% of them) not signaling for Core's roadmap
is a now a mafia. right...


I agree with you. But do you not think it is possible for the miners to collude and conspire behind the scenes to get what they want? Tin foil hat on. But I believe there is an argument that the developers of BU are supported and controlled by the Chinese miners.

Collude and conspire how exactly? Sure its possible, but you'd have to be more specific in the scenario you think they will do.  I think dynamic blocks (flexcap, etc) are even better than emergent consensus, as it would take it out of human hands completely.



Quote


Quote

Bitmain would support Segwit WITH a HF block increase,
but Core will not compromise.  They would rather
not have segwit than increase the blocksize.
They are the obstructionists.



A block size increase is inevitable in my opinion. Why not be patient and support Segwit now and get a block size increase later?

I think segwit is far from perfect, although it does have some unique benefits such as UTXO growth reduction.
I think other proposals are better.

But to answer your question as to why I don't support Segwit now and 'get' an increase later, well, I think
it would be more accurate to say 'hope to get'.

It comes down to not trusting the core development team.   They are openly saying 'blocks aren't full',
and then out of the other side of their mouth saying 'full blocks are good, high fees are good'.  They've
done their best to stall for years, spun up a false narrative about hard forks, broke the hong kong agreement,
censored dissent, and formed a corporation to profit from off-chain solutions.

They've completely, utterly lost my trust, and I do not believe for a second that we would get a satisfactory increase later,
and I believe this is why the miners will not follow their leadership either.

legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
A block size increase is inevitable in my opinion. Why not be patient and support Segwit now and get a block size increase later?

to save repeating myself segwit is not the 'solution' its the bait for future debate to push an agenda.
devs are baiting the blocksize with stupid methods.
EG
v0.12 maxBLOCKsigops 20k maxTXsigops 4k 1mb baseblocklimit
v0.14 maxBLOCKsigops 80k maxTXsigops 16k (1mb baseblocklimit - 3mb arbitrary space if people opt-in)
that there alone is the devs letting more native quadratic spam continue.. and infact get worse[was 10 sec, soon 8min validation time]. they are literally causing the problem to try and say making bigger blocks 'just doesnt work' .. the devs are baiting the narrative yet not doing a proper job of solving the issue

you can literally hear the future echo's from their corporate chambers ripple back through time
"we the king overlord devs gave you 4mb[empty halfbaked gesture] weight, but still blocks are being filled by 5 insanely spammy tx's that now take 8minutes to validate instead of 10 seconds"

they are baiting the community, not solving the problem
their solution:
4mb weight: 1mb base, maxBLOCKsigops 80k, maxTXsigops 16k
knowing corps making a point will spam baseblock - their echo chamber script "see validation times have got worse by giving you weight" (actually its txsigop increase that causes it)
knowing not everyone moves to segwit keypairs to use the 'weight'- their echo chamber script "see people dont want more tx's, the 4mb isnt even being used"

real solution
1mb baseblock: maxBLOCKsigops 20k, maxTXsigops 2k
2mb baseblock: maxBLOCKsigops 40k, maxTXsigops 1k
4mb baseblock: maxBLOCKsigops 80k, maxTXsigops 500
again not
4mb weight: 1mb base, maxBLOCKsigops 80k, maxTXsigops 16k

real solutions reduce spammy validations times and allow more lean tx's over time. blockstream devs bait does the opposite
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
"Miner Mafia"?  please.

Bitcoin was always a miner vote system, if you read and understand
Satoshi's whitepaper, but somehow the miners
(70% of them) not signaling for Core's roadmap
is a now a mafia. right...


I agree with you. But do you not think it is possible for the miners to collude and conspire behind the scenes to get what they want? Tin foil hat on. But I believe there is an argument that the developers of BU are supported and controlled by the Chinese miners.

Quote

Bitmain would support Segwit WITH a HF block increase,
but Core will not compromise.  They would rather
not have segwit than increase the blocksize.
They are the obstructionists.



A block size increase is inevitable in my opinion. Why not be patient and support Segwit now and get a block size increase later?
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
jonald_fyookball

miners AND nodes have a symbiotic relationship. in satoshi's day it was [siamese twins joined at the hip]. mining and being the node were the same single joined entity.
now its separate[un conjoined twins] it doesnt mean only miners[one twin] get the vote or only nodes get the vote[one twin].. they both[as siblings] have equal power and should learn to share the power not fight for it.

blockstream INTENTIONALLY ignored nodes[twin A] and gave pools[twin B] the vote. but now that [twin B] is refusing to eat what daddy blockstream wants to feed them. blockstream is the one having the angry tantrum blaming the [twin B] pools.
even as much as to now have daddy blockstream tell twinA to beat up and kneecap twinB

blockstream should have prepared a proper healthy [food] solution that both nodes and pools [both twins] can happily accept. or if not happy blockstream should not try forcing it down their throats, but go back to the kitchen and prepare a different healthier meal
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
https://twitter.com/LaurentMT/status/851173367759728641

bitcoin is not a miners world but a consensus system. Get use this.

Yes it is a consensus system, and it is true that users can vote with their dollars and not invest/use a coin
they don't like...

But that being said, how else do you think new consensus rules can be agreed on fairly?  
member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
https://twitter.com/LaurentMT/status/851173367759728641

bitcoin is not a miners world but a consensus system. Get use this.

If you want to be a part of the foundation of bitcoin and have a vote. Get off of your cheap ass and buy some miners.
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1142
Ιntergalactic Conciliator
https://twitter.com/LaurentMT/status/851173367759728641

bitcoin is not a miners world but a consensus system. Get use this.
wck
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
"Miner Mafia"?  please.

Bitcoin was always a miner vote system, if you read and understand
Satoshi's whitepaper, but somehow the miners
(70% of them) not signaling for Core's roadmap
is a now a mafia. right...

Bitmain would support Segwit WITH a HF block increase,
but Core will not compromise.  They would rather
not have segwit than increase the blocksize.
They are the obstructionists.



I completely agree with your post.   After being outside of bitcoin for a while, I'm kind of shocked by the attitudes that now exist. 
legendary
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1518
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
*omg*
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1142
Ιntergalactic Conciliator
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
"Miner Mafia"?  please.

Bitcoin was always a miner vote system, if you read and understand
Satoshi's whitepaper, but somehow the miners
(70% of them) not signaling for Core's roadmap
is a now a mafia. right...

Bitmain would support Segwit WITH a HF block increase,
but Core will not compromise.  They would rather
not have segwit than increase the blocksize.
They are the obstructionists.

wck
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
ASICBOOST is a serious problem and everyone even from big block camp must accept that bitcoin community something need to do
BU was not a movement to increase blocksize but to stall bitcoin from miners as he say and a former BU developer

https://medium.com/@heyrhett/why-im-leaving-bitcoin-unlimited-becbc5a149d9

Silly core sheep do not have any data showing asic boost has been used at any point.
Statistics show that bitmain pools are performing within 1% of other pools. And their empty blocks mined are in line with every other pool also.
Find a new imagined make believe reason.

It is amazing how little critical thinking is going on in this forum and with what is going on with Bitcoin.  From what I've seen there is little doubt that SegWit will happen at some point.   UASF isn't necessary for that to happen.  
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1142
Ιntergalactic Conciliator
ASICBOOST is a serious problem and everyone even from big block camp must accept that bitcoin community something need to do
BU was not a movement to increase blocksize but to stall bitcoin from miners as he say and a former BU developer

lol you do know the S9 and asic boost were created before segwit right..

so did they make a time machine?

in the end you will ask everyone to apologised to Jihan.... Tongue I see where this goes Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
ASICBOOST is a serious problem and everyone even from big block camp must accept that bitcoin community something need to do
BU was not a movement to increase blocksize but to stall bitcoin from miners as he say and a former BU developer

lol you do know the S9 and asic boost were created before segwit right..

so did they make a time machine?
member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
ASICBOOST is a serious problem and everyone even from big block camp must accept that bitcoin community something need to do
BU was not a movement to increase blocksize but to stall bitcoin from miners as he say and a former BU developer

https://medium.com/@heyrhett/why-im-leaving-bitcoin-unlimited-becbc5a149d9

Silly core sheep do not have any data showing asic boost has been used at any point.
Statistics show that bitmain pools are performing within 1% of other pools. And their empty blocks mined are in line with every other pool also.
Find a new imagined make believe reason.
wck
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Really sweet, you don't like something so you define it as an exploit.   There isn't any exploit in doing work more efficiently.   There might be an issue with preventing others form doing the same, but that is a legal exploit.

Quote
An exploit (from the English verb to exploit, meaning "using something to one’s own advantage") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or a sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized).
Which fits perfectly for AsicBoost. This is unintended behavior which is being exploited by Jihan for personal gain. Living in denial won't help your payroll.

While I'm going to exploit your by simply ignoring you.  That is definitely use this forum to my own advantage.   Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3071
Then of course there is more efficient transaction encoding. This is not actually compression.

Yes that's a helpful distinction to make. I am aware of these differences (lossy and lossless alike, you could argue that lossy should make use of a different expression to compression, as the actual concept of compression, i.e. with air or a liquid, involves no loss, these are imperfect metaphors and not really properly defined technical terms).

And because computer nomenclature frequently borrows physical concepts to use as metaphors, your assertion "this is not actually compression" isn't as absolute as you suggest. It actually is compression, just not in commonly accepted technical jargon, in the English language. For all you and I know (I don't speak foreign languages or know their computing jargon so well, do you?), the way that file compression and efficient data encoding is described in one language or another may well use the same word for encoding as is used for improved encoding efficiency. I used the expression "compression" just to make sure as many people as possible reading would understand.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
Really sweet, you don't like something so you define it as an exploit.   There isn't any exploit in doing work more efficiently.   There might be an issue with preventing others form doing the same, but that is a legal exploit.

Quote
An exploit (from the English verb to exploit, meaning "using something to one’s own advantage") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or a sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized).
Which fits perfectly for AsicBoost. This is unintended behavior which is being exploited by Jihan for personal gain. Living in denial won't help your payroll.
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