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Topic: The Polish government and MF has just destroyed the cryptocurrencies in Poland. - page 2. (Read 529 times)

copper member
Activity: 46
Merit: 26
Quote
While the first point is beyond any doubt, the second one is quite controversial. Exchanging for example Bitcoin to Litecoin generates income and therefore tax. Such statements began to appear in individual tax interpretations reported to local tax offices. People who have been trading cryptocurrencies for years have probably not been aware of this fact.

This is the case with the US and Australia as well, among other countries, if I'm not mistaken. Basically, if you make a trade where you profited (fiat or otherwise), you pay taxes.

Quote
It is extremely important to determine the moment of obtaining the income. According to Ministry of Finance, it arises when the taxpayer receives or has available to his own disposal the money or the other cryptocurrency. So, if during the whole year you’ve been trading cryptocurrencies but haven’t withdrawn money from crypto-exchange you should pay tax anyway. The moment of tax obligation takes place not when you’re transferring money from the exchange to a bank account but the time of the transaction. Unfortunately, many people were not aware of it either.

I could be wrong, but you only have to pay on profits you've actually made. Let's say you bought 1 BTC for $10, then you held it until it reached $100 in value. If you never actually traded your Bitcoin for anything, you don't pay anything. If, however, you used your Bitcoin ($100 in value) to buy Litecoins, you have to pay income taxes for $90 because that's how much you've profited from your 1 BTC.

Quote
For example. If entrepreneur in course of his business was trading with an amount of 10 000 PLN and made daily 10 buys and 10 sells for 10 000 PLN - 300 transactions monthly - and was not gaining any single penny from this trades, he is anyway obliged to pay approx. 500 000 PLN of tax because from 3 milllion PLN income (in terms of month) he is unable to deduct 3 million PLN costs. It’s worth to add that daytraders or transaction bots are already doing tens or hundreds of transactions each day. If they are doing it in course of their businesses then due taxes can be counted in millions of PLNs.

Are you sure about this? This is completely unreasonable if true. I highlighted the word income because that's all you have to pay for. If you break even with your trades, you can't earn income. I could be mistaken, but I'd say the 3 million is gross sales rather than income. Something is amiss here.

I'm only basing this on my (limited) knowledge of US crypto tax laws though, so I might be completely mistaken. They seem similar to me in first glance. The filing could very well be different though. This post is not meant as legal advice.

Unfortunately, the original article (written in Polish) was checked by some tax lawyers and according to MF statement... it's all impossible to believe but true.
There's however one exception. Transactions below 50 PLN are not a subject of taxation. As PCC is being rounded to wholes. All above 50 PLN however are taxable.
in both cases it is necessary to submit a transaction letter in a special form to the local TAX office within 14 days from its occurance.

darkangel11, people seems to be accustomed to milking.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1360
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
They are greedy that's for sure, but they are also stupid to try it. I can't believe they expect people to come out and tell them how many altcoins they traded in the previous years. How are they going to track the sale of altcoins and how are they going to charge people? Those are thousands of transactions per day and most of them don't generate much income fiat wise. Some traders choose to trade altcoins to allocate funds while the coin they held previously is losing value, and the greedy government wants them to pay for this regardless of whether they made money or not?
What will happen?
Probably nobody will report their crypto sales and no sane person will fill out thousands of tax forms because some clerk thought it's going to be easy to treat cryptos like cars or houses Cheesy

Btw. taxes in Poland are extremely high.
32% tax for less than 20k € a year? That's a robbery even without this PCC and VAT. Why aren't you guys protesting?
hero member
Activity: 1834
Merit: 759
Quote
While the first point is beyond any doubt, the second one is quite controversial. Exchanging for example Bitcoin to Litecoin generates income and therefore tax. Such statements began to appear in individual tax interpretations reported to local tax offices. People who have been trading cryptocurrencies for years have probably not been aware of this fact.

This is the case with the US and Australia as well, among other countries, if I'm not mistaken. Basically, if you make a trade where you profited (fiat or otherwise), you pay taxes.

Quote
It is extremely important to determine the moment of obtaining the income. According to Ministry of Finance, it arises when the taxpayer receives or has available to his own disposal the money or the other cryptocurrency. So, if during the whole year you’ve been trading cryptocurrencies but haven’t withdrawn money from crypto-exchange you should pay tax anyway. The moment of tax obligation takes place not when you’re transferring money from the exchange to a bank account but the time of the transaction. Unfortunately, many people were not aware of it either.

I could be wrong, but you only have to pay on profits you've actually made. Let's say you bought 1 BTC for $10, then you held it until it reached $100 in value. If you never actually traded your Bitcoin for anything, you don't pay anything. If, however, you used your Bitcoin ($100 in value) to buy Litecoins, you have to pay income taxes for $90 because that's how much you've profited from your 1 BTC.

Quote
For example. If entrepreneur in course of his business was trading with an amount of 10 000 PLN and made daily 10 buys and 10 sells for 10 000 PLN - 300 transactions monthly - and was not gaining any single penny from this trades, he is anyway obliged to pay approx. 500 000 PLN of tax because from 3 milllion PLN income (in terms of month) he is unable to deduct 3 million PLN costs. It’s worth to add that daytraders or transaction bots are already doing tens or hundreds of transactions each day. If they are doing it in course of their businesses then due taxes can be counted in millions of PLNs.

Are you sure about this? This is completely unreasonable if true. I highlighted the word income because that's all you have to pay for. If you break even with your trades, you can't earn income. I could be mistaken, but I'd say the 3 million is gross sales rather than income. Something is amiss here.

I'm only basing this on my (limited) knowledge of US crypto tax laws though, so I might be completely mistaken. They seem similar to me in first glance. The filing could very well be different though. This post is not meant as legal advice.
member
Activity: 686
Merit: 15
This is really worrisome considering the repressive tax implementation by this government, the big banks might just be behind the scene ill advising the government. I think the people will have to move fast to stopping this, by getting attorneys who are expert in tax law. I pray they win.
member
Activity: 365
Merit: 10
Banning or destroyed crypto currency by polish government is one of those things crypto must face and overcome to prove to the whole world that it has come to stay for ever. Some other country like china and so on made the same statement but crypto currency continue to grow from country to countries. The issues surrounding the market price is temporary.
copper member
Activity: 46
Merit: 26
the tax obligation ends on April 30. We have April 10.
Here's another message from our beloved Ministry of Finance.



member
Activity: 122
Merit: 10
he will regret it.

It also depends on the development and adoption.

China has banned crypto trading and opened again.

I dont see why this is not going to happen in Poland
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167
MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG
newbie
Activity: 85
Merit: 0
Governs like that just want to leech their people... why tax incomes? Im not just talking of cyptos.
States do really do good thing enough with our money to allow this taxes?
They are becoming an obstacle to development of the  connected economy around the entire world.
member
Activity: 196
Merit: 17
EFFECT.AI▲Decentralized network for A.I
More than 100% tax is not tax, it's extortion! I suggest you Polish crypto people join together to fight the politicians. After all they're just people too. People who can be wrong about things, but also people who can be influenced by lobbying. In the worst case, they are people who can be stripped of their power.
newbie
Activity: 185
Merit: 0
It's definitely not the thing that millions would like to hear.
copper member
Activity: 46
Merit: 26
Slightly confused here. So it is 1% tax per transaction irrespective of the result of the trade? It is going to be disastrous for the day traders, but at the same time the impact will be more limited as far as the medium-term and long term investors are concerned.

yup.
No matter if it was profitable or not for you. It makes sense don't ya' think?  Roll Eyes Grin

Right now we can unfortunately say that Poland joined countries like Afghanistan, Algieria, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Ecuador, Morocco, Qatar, Macedonia and Vanuatu.
What links these countries? Crypto is illegal in those countries. A country in the in the middle of Europe.

OK, it's not illegal in Poland. It's plain dead and users using them and making profits on it hanged on their own genitals.

IT MAKES SENSE that every highly developed country is using it (at some point) and made it easily accessible and taxable for their own citizens and Poland's actually banning it. IT DOES MAKE SENSE... yeah..
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1352
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Slightly confused here. So it is 1% tax per transaction irrespective of the result of the trade? It is going to be disastrous for the day traders, but at the same time the impact will be more limited as far as the medium-term and long term investors are concerned.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1196
STOP SNITCHIN'
Taxes like this definetely kill the opportunity to work in this sphere, it's gloomy
sad sign, to be honest

fortunately there's still hope in citizens and the hope is still burning that something can be changed.
It would be definitely better looking if they would simply ban cryptocurrencies like it's already done in Bolivia, Equador, Kambodia, Nepal or Kirgistan.
They instead have chosen intimidation and turning off the tax law so no one is able to properly settle his taxes.

Completely agreed. In the case of outright bans, I'd expect that enforcement would be lax, as there is likely no dedicated authorities or task forces devoted to it. Usually the ban itself is the only deterrent.

In this case, they're making it so your tax liability can be greater than your net income, and then sicking the tax authorities on citizens. That's really scary. People will be ruined over this if nothing changes. And there are very few agencies that can instill fear and terror like tax agencies...
copper member
Activity: 46
Merit: 26
Taxes like this definetely kill the opportunity to work in this sphere, it's gloomy
sad sign, to be honest

fortunately there's still hope in citizens and the hope is still burning that something can be changed.
It would be definitely better looking if they would simply ban cryptocurrencies like it's already done in Bolivia, Equador, Kambodia, Nepal or Kirgistan.
They instead have chosen intimidation and turning off the tax law so no one is able to properly settle his taxes.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Taxes like this definetely kill the opportunity to work in this sphere, it's gloomy
sad sign, to be honest
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
I think all governments are planning to do this. In order to fully study the mechanism of using cryptocurrencies and then tax all users as much as possible. That is why we cannot allow the legalization of cryptocurrency. An urgent need to develop a road map for the establishment of the terms of use of crypto-currencies without exchange for Fiat.

All governments are not so idiots as to kill the business. They prefer to get money from taxes. But with those laws people just leave the business.
You think very well about your politicians. Some politicians are even willing to organize mass killings of their citizens in order to use it for their own purposes. They are not interested in the income from taxes on users of cryptocurrencies. They are afraid to lose control over the citizens and it is much more terrible for them.

No, I don't. In my country there are quite a few potician idiots. I said all goverments are not idiots. For example governments from Germany or Japan have passed legislations more favorable to crypto users.
full member
Activity: 392
Merit: 137
I think all governments are planning to do this. In order to fully study the mechanism of using cryptocurrencies and then tax all users as much as possible. That is why we cannot allow the legalization of cryptocurrency. An urgent need to develop a road map for the establishment of the terms of use of crypto-currencies without exchange for Fiat.

All governments are not so idiots as to kill the business. They prefer to get money from taxes. But with those laws people just leave the business.
You think very well about your politicians. Some politicians are even willing to organize mass killings of their citizens in order to use it for their own purposes. They are not interested in the income from taxes on users of cryptocurrencies. They are afraid to lose control over the citizens and it is much more terrible for them.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1565
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
I think all governments are planning to do this. In order to fully study the mechanism of using cryptocurrencies and then tax all users as much as possible. That is why we cannot allow the legalization of cryptocurrency. An urgent need to develop a road map for the establishment of the terms of use of crypto-currencies without exchange for Fiat.

All governments are not so idiots as to kill the business. They prefer to get money from taxes. But with those laws people just leave the business.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 252
I think all governments are planning to do this. In order to fully study the mechanism of using cryptocurrencies and then tax all users as much as possible. That is why we cannot allow the legalization of cryptocurrency. An urgent need to develop a road map for the establishment of the terms of use of crypto-currencies without exchange for Fiat.
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