There is a disincentive to scam, but nothing prevents exchanges from getting hacked.
The disincentive to scam is the same thing that gives exchanges from investing in sufficient security to prevent themselves from getting hacked. If they get hacked even one time and cover the losses then customers will not have confidence in their security and will look elsewhere for trading 
Topic: The real problem with Exchanges/Services...it's quite simple. (Read 2715 times)
This is one drawback to using bitcoin, however the pros to using Bitcoin vastly outweigh the cons to using it.
When you deal with an established exchange, the exchange has a good reason to continue to operate honestly because they will generate long-term trading commissions. With a person to person trader on the other hand they can more easily pull off their scam again under a new identity
When you deal with an established exchange, the exchange has a good reason to continue to operate honestly because they will generate long-term trading commissions. With a person to person trader on the other hand they can more easily pull off their scam again under a new identity
There is a disincentive to scam, but nothing prevents exchanges from getting hacked.
is there anyone out there at this point who has used bitcoin and not been scammed / stolen from ? (aside from the folks who did the stealing of course) 
People get conned out of money every single day... no matter what the platform. What's your point?People getting scammed in real life usually can report the scammer and let authority and the court system deal with him locally.
Bitcoin enable scammers from another part of the world to conduct scam where there is no global authority can deal with them.
When you deal with an established exchange, the exchange has a good reason to continue to operate honestly because they will generate long-term trading commissions. With a person to person trader on the other hand they can more easily pull off their scam again under a new identity
is there anyone out there at this point who has used bitcoin and not been scammed / stolen from ? (aside from the folks who did the stealing of course)
People get conned out of money every single day... no matter what the platform. What's your point?People getting scammed in real life usually can report the scammer and let authority and the court system deal with him locally.
Bitcoin enable scammers from another part of the world to conduct scam where there is no global authority can deal with them.
is there anyone out there at this point who has used bitcoin and not been scammed / stolen from ? (aside from the folks who did the stealing of course)
People get conned out of money every single day... no matter what the platform. What's your point?People getting scammed in real life usually can report the scammer and let authority and the court system deal with him locally.
Bitcoin enable scammers from another part of the world to conduct scam where there is no global authority can deal with them.
The BTC world seems to have a bizarro disconnect compared to other types of money.
When people ask how they can increase their bitcoins the regular responses seem to be - gamble them, or put them on yet another anonymous lending site where you're likely to get raped.
I don't think USD holders would follow or dole out that advice somehow.
Whether we like it or not, we gotta centralise to do some of the things we need to do.
If I deposit my money, in whatever form it is, I expect the organisation I deposit it with to be visible, accountable and nailed to the wall if it fucks up.
If I ravage someone else's finances then I deserve to be dealt with. I expect the same when it happens to me.
The libertarian psycho shadow that hangs over BTC doesn't do anyone who operates in the 'real' world any good whatsoever.
Those who sit back and preach 'market forces' and 'no one's forcing you to...' will squeal just as loudly as anyone else when they fall victim to malicious losses.
When people ask how they can increase their bitcoins the regular responses seem to be - gamble them, or put them on yet another anonymous lending site where you're likely to get raped.
I don't think USD holders would follow or dole out that advice somehow.
Whether we like it or not, we gotta centralise to do some of the things we need to do.
If I deposit my money, in whatever form it is, I expect the organisation I deposit it with to be visible, accountable and nailed to the wall if it fucks up.
If I ravage someone else's finances then I deserve to be dealt with. I expect the same when it happens to me.
The libertarian psycho shadow that hangs over BTC doesn't do anyone who operates in the 'real' world any good whatsoever.
Those who sit back and preach 'market forces' and 'no one's forcing you to...' will squeal just as loudly as anyone else when they fall victim to malicious losses.
is there anyone out there at this point who has used bitcoin and not been scammed / stolen from ? (aside from the folks who did the stealing of course)
People get conned out of money every single day... no matter what the platform. What's your point? is there anyone out there at this point who has used bitcoin and not been scammed / stolen from ? (aside from the folks who did the stealing of course)
Yeah, I still have a couple of coins where the so-called dev just disappeared.
Is that we are dealing with faceless entities over the internet and entrusting them with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of our hard earned money.
Has anyone ever stopped to think how ridiculous it is that we actually put our faith and send money blindly to a most likely foreign operation ran by members known merely by an internet screenname? I mean how damn professional is it knowing that a good majority of these exchanges are owned by teens and mid to late 20's Russians simply known as 'XxShadowRoguexX' or 'SysOp69_4u.' With no physical company building or readily verifiable business location. Well. Let me rephrase that. Even having a physical location such as Mt. Gox didn't stop Mr. Karpeles from cleaning out shop.
Step back for a second and think about this. Do you think a company such as Apple or Samsung could just get away with being ran by anonymous CEO's that simply go by an internet screenname?
Bottom line is there's zero sense of accountability. Which is precisely the reason why they're able to scam...and keep scamming. Because they can make up any bullshit excuse they want and follow the crowd by saying they were 'hacked'...and there's nothing we can do about it.
And this is precisely the reason why I believe bitcoin will ultimate fade into the sunset of obscurity along with failed techs like tablet pc's and palm pilots. Could another, better tech supplant it in the future? Possibly. But as of now, it is nothing more than a haven for scammers, and has fell into the wrong hands. Assuredly the same exact hands Mr. Nakamoto feared.
Has anyone ever stopped to think how ridiculous it is that we actually put our faith and send money blindly to a most likely foreign operation ran by members known merely by an internet screenname? I mean how damn professional is it knowing that a good majority of these exchanges are owned by teens and mid to late 20's Russians simply known as 'XxShadowRoguexX' or 'SysOp69_4u.' With no physical company building or readily verifiable business location. Well. Let me rephrase that. Even having a physical location such as Mt. Gox didn't stop Mr. Karpeles from cleaning out shop.
Step back for a second and think about this. Do you think a company such as Apple or Samsung could just get away with being ran by anonymous CEO's that simply go by an internet screenname?
Bottom line is there's zero sense of accountability. Which is precisely the reason why they're able to scam...and keep scamming. Because they can make up any bullshit excuse they want and follow the crowd by saying they were 'hacked'...and there's nothing we can do about it.
And this is precisely the reason why I believe bitcoin will ultimate fade into the sunset of obscurity along with failed techs like tablet pc's and palm pilots. Could another, better tech supplant it in the future? Possibly. But as of now, it is nothing more than a haven for scammers, and has fell into the wrong hands. Assuredly the same exact hands Mr. Nakamoto feared.
I don't know how you've been here this long and missed this.... the responsibility for your own bitcoins, is in your own hands.
It's not up to the whole of the internet or the bitcoin community to lead you by the hand, wipe your arse, and help you cross the street, if you can't put on your big boy pants and man up to your own mistakes then tough shit, life is continually going to suck for you. At the moment you think it's bitcoin making it suck, but I'm afraid you'll get out of bitcoin, and things start to suck in your other ventures, what is the common factor there? Oh, it's you.
It's not up to the whole of the internet or the bitcoin community to lead you by the hand, wipe your arse, and help you cross the street, if you can't put on your big boy pants and man up to your own mistakes then tough shit, life is continually going to suck for you. At the moment you think it's bitcoin making it suck, but I'm afraid you'll get out of bitcoin, and things start to suck in your other ventures, what is the common factor there? Oh, it's you.
Reading is fundamental, and apparently you suck at it.
Please re-read my OP. I said bitcoin as a technology has so much advantages in its premise. It's just fallen into the wrong hands.
And please enlighten me: how exactly is bitcoin supposed to flourish and grow when every single one of its exchanges goes belly up? Is everyone just supposed to do peer to peer transactions doing FS/Wanted trade threads on forums?
Stock, Currency & Commodity Exchanges blow up too....when they do there is regulation & safety nets in place to lessen the losses that arise out of an altcoin exchange blowing up. Alt coin exchanges seem to be replicating unregulated OTC market makers. Its just a wrong fit; transplanting a regulated, assured economic activity onto near anonymous accounts holding arbitrary amounts of currency.
Somewhere else on this forum, I noticed a user is not able to spend as much BTC as they like to in their monthly/daily budgets in their locality. Probably because alt coin ecosystems are still in their infancy.
As a ReNewbie, after almost a week of research I am yet to find a BTC centered online service that is not favored by fraudsters/tricksters.
You're are absolutely right, luckily in my country I have the option to buy Bitcoin without any registration, direct payment and direct transfer of Bitcoin. Apart from the exchange being faceless and that we know nothing about them, and plenty go bankrupt, get hacked etc. And there is usually no insurance, we are the ones "paying the price". The only reason for me to use other exchanges where I store USD, is to auto-buy at a certain price, though the majority of my transactions are done directly / manually. So I like to have the current rate of Bitcoin and some altcoints on my phone with even an alarm / notification set to make sure I don't miss out.
is there anyone out there at this point who has used bitcoin and not been scammed / stolen from ? (aside from the folks who did the stealing of course)
The main reason Bitcoin was invented was to solve the issue of blind trust. The funny thing is you can actually trust Bitcoin, it actually works. Just most things built on top of it are still failing the blind trust problem. I am wondering if maybe someday the blockchain advancements will solve this.
Supposedly this is one of the great leaps of smart contracts, is that now, you can force third-parties to trust you via smart contracts.
That's an excellent point. There are theoretical solutions, involving online contracts, M out of N schemes, and such. Some are even up and running. But none of them are being used much.Supposedly this is one of the great leaps of smart contracts, is that now, you can force third-parties to trust you via smart contracts.
Etherium, Ripple, and Paycoin (XPY) were all complex systems built on top of Bitcoin. Etherium is a really complicated "smart contracts" scheme, complicated enough that there are probably exploits. Ripple was supposed to do all sorts of things, but mostly ended up as another altcoin. Paycoin seems to have been an out and out scam. None are being used much.
Bitcoin does one thing well - unidirectional, irrevocable transfers between parties who don't know each other. All its strengths and weaknesses stem from that.
Hopefully projects like coinffeine will change the landscape soon. A decentralized solution is the most fitting.
Have there been any updates at all regarding coinffeine? It sounded promising but I never heard if the project had expanded or not.
Coinffeine have started an alpha testing a few weeks ago. Here is a link to a video of the event where we launch the testing phase:
http://youtu.be/ZGACO9dAmUs
Keep updated about Coinffeine at our blog http://blog.coinffeine.com and in Spanish at http://blog.coinffeine.es, follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/coinffeine and at Google +: https://plus.google.com/+Coinffeine
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Yeah... youknow.... I'm just looking for a scenario diagram or somesuch showing the flows of value and information between all parties involved in a single example trade. Do _no_ design teams working on 'distributed exchanges' actually do any design?
This is all I could find in the way of diagrams and sale examples: https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinffeine/wiki/Exchange-algorithm#protocol-overview
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Yeah... youknow.... I'm just looking for a scenario diagram or somesuch showing the flows of value and information between all parties involved in a single example trade. Do _no_ design teams working on 'distributed exchanges' actually do any design?
This is the last I heard: http://www.coindesk.com/coinffeine-demonstrates-distributed-p2p-bitcoin-exchange-platform/
The fact that they have some support from a bank is also quite positive: http://www.coindesk.com/spanish-bank-backs-decentralized-bitcoin-exchange-coinffeine/
I'm not a fanboy of coinffeine, just decentralized solutions.
Edit: Github is here: https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinffeine
The fact that they have some support from a bank is also quite positive: http://www.coindesk.com/spanish-bank-backs-decentralized-bitcoin-exchange-coinffeine/
I'm not a fanboy of coinffeine, just decentralized solutions.
Edit: Github is here: https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinffeine
Hopefully projects like coinffeine will change the landscape soon. A decentralized solution is the most fitting.
Cool - the XCP and Ripple pushers couldn't explain how their systems would handle a decentralized exchange when I asked them upthread. Perhaps the Coinffeine pushers will step up.
Hopefully projects like coinffeine will change the landscape soon. A decentralized solution is the most fitting.
Have there been any updates at all regarding coinffeine? It sounded promising but I never heard if the project had expanded or not.
All of this is necessary and to be expected. If we are to have truly reliable BTC exchanges they must necessarily emerge in response to spectacular fuckups. Market process, they call it.
market forces, sometimes u can also benifit more by actually losing the money too as opposed to someone that observes
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