The reason why bitcoin will never *stay* below 5000$ again. PROVE ME WRONG

Idrisu

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Quote from: ninobtcx on August 06, 2018, 07:12:35 AM

Current Market cap is 120b $ (actually real market cap much lower than that due to lost btc and so on); that could be 1000 people with 120m$ hidden. Anyone who has approximately that amount of btc would be very able to buy the market would it temporarily drop significantly below 5000$ per btc, due to the very limited (and shrinking) actual supply of bitcoin and availability in the exchanges.

I think what we witnessed in last december will happen again and at a greater extent. Don't ask me when, but that's a given.

Bitcoin has been chosen.
Why? Possibly positioning.

Price won't give a fuck on whether it can be used everyday to buy stuff. Its purpose it for wealthy billionaires to keep part of their wealth inaccessible through offline wallets.
Whether tx take 1 hours to go and cost 10 bucks each.
Whether the nodes get a little bit more or a little bit less centralized.

All that matters is the one reason I stated above.
Everything else is just smoke for sardines.

This thread open long time ago and it is still relevant to the discussion in cryptocurrencies cycle today. Bitcoin will do well in future but the current market is making people to lose hope on the market. Bitcoin is currently below $4000 and many of us believe that it is currently undervalued.

Mister1k

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The current crypto market is persuasive even with a specific level of capital in light of the fact that there is no mindfulness in regards to the conduct of the market. This outcomes in the production of frenzy waves which are advantageous for the huge whales and institutional speculators. We ought to likewise consider the factor of the development of Bitcoin as far as utility instrument in the coming years.

deisik

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Quote from: Pursuer on February 25, 2019, 04:10:31 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 28, 2018, 09:26:22 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, not the cost of production, which the recent price crash has shown again.

People here often seem to refuse to believe that miners are followers, not leaders. They react to what the market forces on them, not vice versa. And that's how it was designed and that's how it should be. No one other than miners needs to care about the cost of production.

Anyway, this thread is yet another that has not aged well but let's hope a mouse doesn't have to die.

this is a good point but not quite correct.
miners are neither "followers" nor "leaders", when you say they are "followers" you are exaggerating their involvement just as others are thinking of them as "leaders".
the fact is, miners are a part of this system like anybody else but they have more at stake compare to simple investors who only have bitcoin. because a miner both has bitcoin and has equipment. while a simple investor can sell and get out in a short time (as fast as he can transfer his coins to exchange and sell) the miner can't just get out if they want to because they have to shut down their miners and sell those to get out and you can't get back in as easy either because again it would require buying ASICs

Well, your point is not quite correct either

As you seem to forget that miners are mining for a profit, while the cost of mining rigs is fixed. It means that just like with traders they have a breakeven point, and the longer they mine the closer they get to it (provided they are mining for a profit, of course). So in due course their profits start to exceed both the operating costs (i.e. electricity costs) and the cost of invested capital (i.e. the costs of equipment). From then on the cost of equipment becomes irrelevant apart from what they could sell their mining rigs for, naturally (but this works in their favor typically)

Vaskiy

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The price has fallen sideways, and the same is not because of the manipulation. It is just a price fluctuation as it happens before, and this time the price was predicted to go $3200 or to ₹4200. Market went $4200 and the same assures the growth will happen reaching $6000 crossing the $5000.

Pursuer

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 28, 2018, 09:26:22 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, not the cost of production, which the recent price crash has shown again.

People here often seem to refuse to believe that miners are followers, not leaders. They react to what the market forces on them, not vice versa. And that's how it was designed and that's how it should be. No one other than miners needs to care about the cost of production.

Anyway, this thread is yet another that has not aged well but let's hope a mouse doesn't have to die.

this is a good point but not quite correct.
miners are neither "followers" nor "leaders", when you say they are "followers" you are exaggerating their involvement just as others are thinking of them as "leaders".
the fact is, miners are a part of this system like anybody else but they have more at stake compare to simple investors who only have bitcoin. because a miner both has bitcoin and has equipment. while a simple investor can sell and get out in a short time (as fast as he can transfer his coins to exchange and sell) the miner can't just get out if they want to because they have to shut down their miners and sell those to get out and you can't get back in as easy either because again it would require buying ASICs.

xtraelv

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ju34400

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Quote from: ninobtcx on November 24, 2018, 09:21:52 PM

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

with a good BBQ sauce it's tasty

gentlemand

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Price is determined by the balance of supply and demand, not the cost of production, which the recent price crash has shown again.

People here often seem to refuse to believe that miners are followers, not leaders. They react to what the market forces on them, not vice versa. And that's how it was designed and that's how it should be. No one other than miners needs to care about the cost of production.

Anyway, this thread is yet another that has not aged well but let's hope a mouse doesn't have to die.

quartzz

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Quote from: ninobtcx on November 24, 2018, 09:21:52 PM

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

Ahahah wtf Cheesy

You took less risks than McAfee but still I'm looking forward to check that out!
https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/959399180111417344

Blue9999

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Quote from: ninobtcx on November 24, 2018, 09:21:52 PM

Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

Quoted this just in case.

Btw we are all waiting so let us know how it taste Grin

ninobtcx

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Okay!

Listen:

If bitcoin stays under 5000$ by the end of 2018, I will eat a fried dead mouse and I will post the pictures on this thread.

quartzz

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Quote from: tee-rex on November 24, 2018, 03:07:35 PM

Quote from: ninobtcx on November 23, 2018, 06:58:12 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: tee-rex on September 15, 2018, 04:34:40 PM

Quote from: ninobtcx on September 10, 2018, 05:47:59 PM

Quote from: tee-rex on September 05, 2018, 03:12:24 PM

Quote from: ninobtcx on August 06, 2018, 07:18:45 PM

Quote from: shield132 on August 06, 2018, 07:16:02 PM

The only reason of not dropping price below 5000 usd is that mining won't be profitable.

That's not the "only" reason, but a very strong one. The reason #1 is the one I posted.

This is a very weak argument really. No one gives a fuck about mining costs, let alone there being a single cost of mining in the first place. If anything, whatever bitcoin price might be (5k or 1k), there will always be enough miners as mining will always stay profitable at any price. If mining is no longer profitable for some miners, they just leave while the rest picks up the slack instantly taking their share of the reward pie (as the reward remains the same). No offense intended, but honestly, when people bring up this argument about costs of mining, you can be certain that they don't have a clue about how everything works regarding prices, costs, and other economic matters.

As to your claim in the OP, anyone with enough bitcoins (like the mtgox dude) can crash the price to 1k or even below and keep it there as long as he sees fit. There is no reason to prove you wrong as it is just a matter of someone with deep enough pockets, for example, Satoshi and his likes, choosing to dump enough coins. There is nothing to prove here.

No - it is important because people who are heavily involved in mining who happens to have a considerable wealth, will always try to manipulate the price above their profitability rate.
Manipulating up a 100B$ market is easier than manipulating it down.

Simple as that, if you disagree read again because it's a very simple concept.

I'm not going to argue over this point any further as only time will tell and only time can actually prove or disprove your point. Just in case, I hope you are right. However, how much are you going to stake personally that bitcoin won't drop below 5k? Also, explain what you mean by staying below 5k? Are you deliberately playing on words here as staying below 5k is not the same as temporarily dropping below that level? Staying means a certain amount or length of time, so how much exactly, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, in a row or occasionally?

It looks like OP's claim doesn't check out with reality. 5k may be a new high now.

It's not "will never go again below 5000$".

It's "will never STAY below 5000$".

You will see that you have a very limited timeframe to buy under 5000$ because it will soon go above that threashold again.

So what is your "very limited timeframe" exactly? How long should the price stay below 5k before you finally accept that it STAYS below that threshold ?

That was the good question ahah.
And it arose at 7 pages, now that btc as been under 5k for a week and hit 3800$

teramit

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time started to proove you wrong, when people say it never stay this under this price it drops or when said it never stay under this price it rises, so there is no need to try to proove something, people buy n sell btc, you cant trust them

gentlemand

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Quote from: ninobtcx on November 23, 2018, 06:58:12 PM

It's not "will never go again below 5000$".

It's "will never STAY below 5000$".

You will see that you have a very limited timeframe to buy under 5000$ because it will soon go above that threashold again.

I think this is what many a personage is hoping. I can't really see it panning out like that myself. There's no will to maintain this price level, let alone push up again. I expect 5 grand to not be seen again for rather more than a limited time frame.

tee-rex

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