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Topic: The root causes of mental illness (Read 4656 times)

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 24, 2012, 12:45:03 AM
#71
Ignorance is also the cure to boredom though.
I swear you are just following me around the forums to make me laugh, haha

The cure for hiccups is "digital rectal massage"... look it up on pubmed, it (supposedly) interrupts the firing of the vagus nerve. Better to just wait it out in my opinion.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
June 24, 2012, 12:37:11 AM
#70
Ignorance is also the cure to boredom though.
I swear you are just following me around the forums to make me laugh, haha
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 24, 2012, 12:29:53 AM
#69
Ignorance is also the cure to boredom though.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
June 24, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
#68
I just care about what is useful. "Every problem is rooted in ignorance" doesn't conjure up useful solutions in my mind.
I wouldn't expect you to think the answer to everything is ignorance... why that would just be ignorant.


We are talking about mental illness, remember?
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 24, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
#67
I just care about what is useful. "Every problem is rooted in ignorance" doesn't conjure up useful solutions in my mind.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
June 24, 2012, 12:18:52 AM
#66

Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.

The Tibetan (Buddhism) philosophy has it right in my opinion as they acknowledge that their is two truths (but only one is the real truth, just stay with me).
The fake truth is when you watch tv you see a silly cartoon cat chasing a mouse.
The ultimate and real truth is you are viewing tiny dots of light.

So I say ignorance is the root of all mental illness because its ignorant to think one exists at all or even acknowledge an "I", "me" or "you" unless they are talking about the ultimate one "I", the infinite self.


Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.


So someone gets raped when they are 10 and now they are 20 and have social anxiety to the extent they can't get a job. You will tell them their "illness" is due to ignorance? How do you turn your hypothesis into something useful to a person like that? Or just in general? It sounds more like something upper-middle-class people (who have been brainwashed so much that only now are they realizing what existential anxiety is) going through midlife crisis will buy books about.
Assuming your serious, I'd have to say that is a horrible situation to think about and I don't wish it on any one and  yes that persons illness came from the ignorance of the people that raped the person in that they thought they actually existed and that they actually thought they were receiving some type of satisfaction from that decision to rape that said person. The person(the victim) is also ignorant for acknowledging that they are "alive" and had a choice to avoid that said situation, even if they did have a choice the infinite true self wouldn't have moved it self in that way or inflicted that action upon itself unless it wanted to.
Your response almost sounds like an emotional fallacy where those who emotionally agree with you will think I'm wrong or something but It doesn’t matter to me since nobody can be right or wrong, it just is so I won't lose any sleep over it Tongue.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 24, 2012, 12:03:15 AM
#65

Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.

The Tibetan (Buddhism) philosophy has it right in my opinion as they acknowledge that their is two truths (but only one is the real truth, just stay with me).
The fake truth is when you watch tv you see a silly cartoon cat chasing a mouse.
The ultimate and real truth is you are viewing tiny dots of light.

So I say ignorance is the root of all mental illness because its ignorant to think one exists at all or even acknowledge an "I", "me" or "you" unless they are talking about the ultimate one "I", the infinite self.


Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.


So someone gets raped when they are 10 and now they are 20 and have social anxiety to the extent they can't get a job. You will tell them their "illness" is due to ignorance? How do you turn your hypothesis into something useful to a person like that? Or just in general? It sounds more like something upper-middle-class people (who have been brainwashed so much that only now are they realizing what existential anxiety is) going through midlife crisis will buy books about.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
June 23, 2012, 11:48:51 PM
#64

Thanks for the plus one and I think you do get what I mean but check this out, In my perspective what you just said is flawed(aka Not the Ultimate Truth, fake truth) in my interpretation(even though I know what your really saying I just want to show others my perspective of this type of thinking)

Quote from: Xenlands perspective
I see what you're getting at. I think that's half of it, for true knowledge I believe is still useless without application.  First you need to know what is true and correct, and then you need to act with that knowledge.

Lol.

Yeah, the perspective issue is always the confusing part.

I tried to address this problem earlier in this thread with my explanation of different levels of logic.  We must always try to explain higher levels of logical syntax by first thrusting them into a lower level of logical syntax.  The example I gave for this is how we, as 3rd dimensional beings try to explain the 4th dimension by acting as though it were the 2nd dimension and thus capable of being understood comprehensively by our intellect (e.g. by representing the 4th dimension as a tesseract on a piece of paper).

You know I remember watching a video depicting a guy drawing on a piece of paper on youtube one time and I never realised that(until now of course) he was using a 2d object to present the 4d world.... this world is maddness!!
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
June 23, 2012, 11:26:55 PM
#63

Thanks for the plus one and I think you do get what I mean but check this out, In my perspective what you just said is flawed(aka Not the Ultimate Truth, fake truth) in my interpretation(even though I know what your really saying I just want to show others my perspective of this type of thinking)

Quote from: Xenlands perspective
I see what you're getting at. I think that's half of it, for true knowledge I believe is still useless without application.  First you need to know what is true and correct, and then you need to act with that knowledge.

Lol.

Yeah, the perspective issue is always the confusing part.

I tried to address this problem earlier in this thread with my explanation of different levels of logic.  We must always try to explain higher levels of logical syntax by first thrusting them into a lower level of logical syntax.  The example I gave for this is how we, as 3rd dimensional beings try to explain the 4th dimension by acting as though it were the 2nd dimension and thus capable of being understood comprehensively by our intellect (e.g. by representing the 4th dimension as a tesseract on a piece of paper).
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
June 23, 2012, 11:14:39 PM
#61
I have boiled down the root causes of mental illness to 3 things; feedback and comments/challenges are encouraged.

1)  Desire (I'll go with the Buddha on this one)
2)  Attempting to control things that are beyond one's control (an offshoot of desire)
3)  Identification with a false concept of identity.

Brief explanations:

1)  Desire:  Whenever a person has any type of desire, it implies that they are dissatisfied with what currently 'is.'  Dissatisfaction implies discontent and a lack of happiness.  If you want something that you don't currently have, this is a problem.

2)  Attempting to control things that are beyond one's control:  This is one of the leading causes of anxiety, anger, etc.  How often do we define our own happiness according to the actions of other people, communities, governments, girlfriends/boyfriends, husbands/wives, etc.?  How often do we become frustrated when our attempts to change these people, communities, governments, etc. fail?

3)  Identification with a false concept of identity:  Who are you?  How did you reach that conclusion?  According to all 11 definitions of identity in Webster's Dictionary, identity implies stability over time.  Yet, how often do we identity/define ourselves conditionally?  For example, let's say that someone says, "I am a teacher."  Ok, great.  Now, if your job is in jeopardy, then your identity is also in jeopardy!  Now, in contrast, how many would have answered this question by saying "I am an observer"?  For, as long as we live, we observe.

Note:  I would expect one of the most common challenges to these assertions would be, "Well, what about chemical imbalances?  What about genetic predispositions?"  To this, I would remind everyone that environment vs. genes (i.e. nature vs. nurture) is a false dichotomy.  It is known scientifically that interactions with our environment has effects on the genome which are then passed down and inherited generation by generation.  Thus, I would assert that any 'genetic predispositions' for a mental illness are the results of the 3 root causes that I listed to begin with, but in previous generations.
Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.

The Tibetan (Buddhism) philosophy has it right in my opinion as they acknowledge that their is two truths (but only one is the real truth, just stay with me).
The fake truth is when you watch tv you see a silly cartoon cat chasing a mouse.
The ultimate and real truth is you are viewing tiny dots of light.

So I say ignorance is the root of all mental illness because its ignorant to think one exists at all or even acknowledge an "I", "me" or "you" unless they are talking about the ultimate one "I", the infinite self.


I see what you're getting at.  I think that's half of it, for true knowledge I believe is still useless without application.  First you need to know what is true and correct, and then you need to act with that knowledge.  I think it's kind of like a feedback loop wherein knolwedge --> action -- > more knowledge --> more action etc. with better refinements each time.

I'd still give ya a +1 because I'm pretty sure I know what you mean.

Thanks for the plus one and I think you do get what I mean but check this out, In my perspective what you just said is flawed(aka Not the Ultimate Truth, fake truth) in my interpretation(even though I know what your really saying I just want to show others my perspective of this type of thinking)

Quote from: Xenlands perspective
I see what you're getting at. I think that's half of it, for true knowledge I believe is still useless without application.  First you need to know what is true and correct, and then you need to act with that knowledge.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
June 23, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
#60
I have boiled down the root causes of mental illness to 3 things; feedback and comments/challenges are encouraged.

1)  Desire (I'll go with the Buddha on this one)
2)  Attempting to control things that are beyond one's control (an offshoot of desire)
3)  Identification with a false concept of identity.

Brief explanations:

1)  Desire:  Whenever a person has any type of desire, it implies that they are dissatisfied with what currently 'is.'  Dissatisfaction implies discontent and a lack of happiness.  If you want something that you don't currently have, this is a problem.

2)  Attempting to control things that are beyond one's control:  This is one of the leading causes of anxiety, anger, etc.  How often do we define our own happiness according to the actions of other people, communities, governments, girlfriends/boyfriends, husbands/wives, etc.?  How often do we become frustrated when our attempts to change these people, communities, governments, etc. fail?

3)  Identification with a false concept of identity:  Who are you?  How did you reach that conclusion?  According to all 11 definitions of identity in Webster's Dictionary, identity implies stability over time.  Yet, how often do we identity/define ourselves conditionally?  For example, let's say that someone says, "I am a teacher."  Ok, great.  Now, if your job is in jeopardy, then your identity is also in jeopardy!  Now, in contrast, how many would have answered this question by saying "I am an observer"?  For, as long as we live, we observe.

Note:  I would expect one of the most common challenges to these assertions would be, "Well, what about chemical imbalances?  What about genetic predispositions?"  To this, I would remind everyone that environment vs. genes (i.e. nature vs. nurture) is a false dichotomy.  It is known scientifically that interactions with our environment has effects on the genome which are then passed down and inherited generation by generation.  Thus, I would assert that any 'genetic predispositions' for a mental illness are the results of the 3 root causes that I listed to begin with, but in previous generations.
Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.

The Tibetan (Buddhism) philosophy has it right in my opinion as they acknowledge that their is two truths (but only one is the real truth, just stay with me).
The fake truth is when you watch tv you see a silly cartoon cat chasing a mouse.
The ultimate and real truth is you are viewing tiny dots of light.

So I say ignorance is the root of all mental illness because its ignorant to think one exists at all or even acknowledge an "I", "me" or "you" unless they are talking about the ultimate one "I", the infinite self.


I see what you're getting at.  I think that's half of it, for true knowledge I believe is still useless without application.  First you need to know what is true and correct, and then you need to act with that knowledge.  I think it's kind of like a feedback loop wherein knolwedge --> action -- > more knowledge --> more action etc. with better refinements each time.

I'd still give ya a +1 because I'm pretty sure I know what you mean.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1003
I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man
June 23, 2012, 11:01:49 PM
#59
I have boiled down the root causes of mental illness to 3 things; feedback and comments/challenges are encouraged.

1)  Desire (I'll go with the Buddha on this one)
2)  Attempting to control things that are beyond one's control (an offshoot of desire)
3)  Identification with a false concept of identity.

Brief explanations:

1)  Desire:  Whenever a person has any type of desire, it implies that they are dissatisfied with what currently 'is.'  Dissatisfaction implies discontent and a lack of happiness.  If you want something that you don't currently have, this is a problem.

2)  Attempting to control things that are beyond one's control:  This is one of the leading causes of anxiety, anger, etc.  How often do we define our own happiness according to the actions of other people, communities, governments, girlfriends/boyfriends, husbands/wives, etc.?  How often do we become frustrated when our attempts to change these people, communities, governments, etc. fail?

3)  Identification with a false concept of identity:  Who are you?  How did you reach that conclusion?  According to all 11 definitions of identity in Webster's Dictionary, identity implies stability over time.  Yet, how often do we identity/define ourselves conditionally?  For example, let's say that someone says, "I am a teacher."  Ok, great.  Now, if your job is in jeopardy, then your identity is also in jeopardy!  Now, in contrast, how many would have answered this question by saying "I am an observer"?  For, as long as we live, we observe.

Note:  I would expect one of the most common challenges to these assertions would be, "Well, what about chemical imbalances?  What about genetic predispositions?"  To this, I would remind everyone that environment vs. genes (i.e. nature vs. nurture) is a false dichotomy.  It is known scientifically that interactions with our environment has effects on the genome which are then passed down and inherited generation by generation.  Thus, I would assert that any 'genetic predispositions' for a mental illness are the results of the 3 root causes that I listed to begin with, but in previous generations.
Basically ignorance is the root of all mental illness.

The Tibetan (Buddhism) philosophy has it right in my opinion as they acknowledge that their is two truths (but only one is the real truth, just stay with me).
The fake truth is when you watch tv you see a silly cartoon cat chasing a mouse.
The ultimate and real truth is you are viewing tiny dots of light.

So I say ignorance is the root of all mental illness because its ignorant to think one exists at all or even acknowledge an "I", "me" or "you" unless they are talking about the ultimate one "I", the infinite self.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
June 23, 2012, 10:49:42 PM
#58
Interesting, I imagine music would serve as a proxy clock. Each song is about 3 minutes long, etc.

I was going to use songs from various genres that are incredibly long relative to the average song.  I had some pre-selected classical and heavy metal tracks (to name a couple of genres) that run as long as 30 minutes specifically because the average time it would take a normal person to complete the word search was far less than 30 minutes.   
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 23, 2012, 10:43:24 PM
#57
Interesting, I imagine music would serve as a proxy clock. Each song is about 3 minutes long, etc.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
June 23, 2012, 10:29:04 PM
#56

I've become a complete convert to the bayesian way of thinking. I believe once there is a critical mass of researchers thinking in that manner it will go a long way towards improving the system. Second point is that researchers need to reduce their reliance on government funding in every way possible. The very basis of the funding is arguably unethical, on top of that it relies on a relatively easily corruptible, centralized authority to distribute funds for reasons other than merit. Science is very, very sick right now and I know I am not alone in this opinion. I don't have time now but once I have finished my current project I plan to spend some time developing a system to crowdsource funding of individual components of research proposals (to supplement government funding..for now) and crowdsource some of the tedious work when possible. I would encourage others to attempt the same in their free time.

I think Christopher Langan said it best about the peer-review system of meritocracy.  First off, unless you have at least a masters degree (and usually only a doctoral degree, depending on the field), nobody in academia really cares about what you have to say.  If I recall, Langan asserted that even those with advanced degrees can only make little "tentative moves" forward, but nobody is really able to do anything too radical to shake things up.

Case in point, I took an undergraduate research and design class for which we had to submit a research proposal to the APA board then then conduct a scientific experiment.  The APA board turned down my initial research proposal.  You know why it was rejected?  It wasn't because it was unethical or ridiculous...it was rejected because nobody had done it yet.

In other words, I was not allowed to conduct an experiment simply because I had nobody to cite.  What a load of bullshit.

Well perhaps they wouldn't give you money because you haven't "shown you could do it" which is legitimate when it comes to novel experiments. The problem is that many people considered capable actually aren't, instead CV's and publications are used as a heuristic.

This wasn't even about funding.  It was a simple research experiment (quasi-experiment) using student participants from the Psychology 101 class.  They didn't need to give a dime to any of us.

In that case... SCIENCE FAIL. There is opportunity cost to everything though. What did you end up doing instead?

My rejected proposal involved testing the effects of different types of music on a person's perception of the passage of time while conducting a simple task (e.g. such as a word search).

My accepted proposal involved testing the effects of the presence of a clock in the room on a person's perception of the passage of time while conducting a simple task (e.g. such as a word search).  One group conducted a word search with a clock present somewhere in the room.  The 2nd group conducted the same word search, but the clock was removed from the room.  Participants then answered a questionnaire about the task they completed, and one of the questions asked them how much time believe had elapsed from the time they began the word search until the time they finished.

Results of the study indicated that participants believed that a longer period of time had elapsed when a clock was present in the room than when the clock was not present.  The clock was actually placed behind them during the task so they could only see the clock upon entering the room, but not while performing the task or completing the questionnaire. 
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 23, 2012, 10:19:14 PM
#55

I've become a complete convert to the bayesian way of thinking. I believe once there is a critical mass of researchers thinking in that manner it will go a long way towards improving the system. Second point is that researchers need to reduce their reliance on government funding in every way possible. The very basis of the funding is arguably unethical, on top of that it relies on a relatively easily corruptible, centralized authority to distribute funds for reasons other than merit. Science is very, very sick right now and I know I am not alone in this opinion. I don't have time now but once I have finished my current project I plan to spend some time developing a system to crowdsource funding of individual components of research proposals (to supplement government funding..for now) and crowdsource some of the tedious work when possible. I would encourage others to attempt the same in their free time.

I think Christopher Langan said it best about the peer-review system of meritocracy.  First off, unless you have at least a masters degree (and usually only a doctoral degree, depending on the field), nobody in academia really cares about what you have to say.  If I recall, Langan asserted that even those with advanced degrees can only make little "tentative moves" forward, but nobody is really able to do anything too radical to shake things up.

Case in point, I took an undergraduate research and design class for which we had to submit a research proposal to the APA board then then conduct a scientific experiment.  The APA board turned down my initial research proposal.  You know why it was rejected?  It wasn't because it was unethical or ridiculous...it was rejected because nobody had done it yet.

In other words, I was not allowed to conduct an experiment simply because I had nobody to cite.  What a load of bullshit.

Well perhaps they wouldn't give you money because you haven't "shown you could do it" which is legitimate when it comes to novel experiments. The problem is that many people considered capable actually aren't, instead CV's and publications are used as a heuristic.

This wasn't even about funding.  It was a simple research experiment (quasi-experiment) using student participants from the Psychology 101 class.  They didn't need to give a dime to any of us.

In that case... SCIENCE FAIL. There is opportunity cost to everything though. What did you end up doing instead?
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
June 23, 2012, 10:12:55 PM
#54

I've become a complete convert to the bayesian way of thinking. I believe once there is a critical mass of researchers thinking in that manner it will go a long way towards improving the system. Second point is that researchers need to reduce their reliance on government funding in every way possible. The very basis of the funding is arguably unethical, on top of that it relies on a relatively easily corruptible, centralized authority to distribute funds for reasons other than merit. Science is very, very sick right now and I know I am not alone in this opinion. I don't have time now but once I have finished my current project I plan to spend some time developing a system to crowdsource funding of individual components of research proposals (to supplement government funding..for now) and crowdsource some of the tedious work when possible. I would encourage others to attempt the same in their free time.

I think Christopher Langan said it best about the peer-review system of meritocracy.  First off, unless you have at least a masters degree (and usually only a doctoral degree, depending on the field), nobody in academia really cares about what you have to say.  If I recall, Langan asserted that even those with advanced degrees can only make little "tentative moves" forward, but nobody is really able to do anything too radical to shake things up.

Case in point, I took an undergraduate research and design class for which we had to submit a research proposal to the APA board then then conduct a scientific experiment.  The APA board turned down my initial research proposal.  You know why it was rejected?  It wasn't because it was unethical or ridiculous...it was rejected because nobody had done it yet.

In other words, I was not allowed to conduct an experiment simply because I had nobody to cite.  What a load of bullshit.

Well perhaps they wouldn't give you money because you haven't "shown you could do it" which is legitimate when it comes to novel experiments. The problem is that many people considered capable actually aren't, instead CV's and publications are used as a heuristic.

This wasn't even about funding.  It was a simple research experiment (quasi-experiment) using student participants from the Psychology 101 class.  They didn't need to give a dime to any of us.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 23, 2012, 10:09:09 PM
#53

I've become a complete convert to the bayesian way of thinking. I believe once there is a critical mass of researchers thinking in that manner it will go a long way towards improving the system. Second point is that researchers need to reduce their reliance on government funding in every way possible. The very basis of the funding is arguably unethical, on top of that it relies on a relatively easily corruptible, centralized authority to distribute funds for reasons other than merit. Science is very, very sick right now and I know I am not alone in this opinion. I don't have time now but once I have finished my current project I plan to spend some time developing a system to crowdsource funding of individual components of research proposals (to supplement government funding..for now) and crowdsource some of the tedious work when possible. I would encourage others to attempt the same in their free time.

I think Christopher Langan said it best about the peer-review system of meritocracy.  First off, unless you have at least a masters degree (and usually only a doctoral degree, depending on the field), nobody in academia really cares about what you have to say.  If I recall, Langan asserted that even those with advanced degrees can only make little "tentative moves" forward, but nobody is really able to do anything too radical to shake things up.

Case in point, I took an undergraduate research and design class for which we had to submit a research proposal to the APA board then then conduct a scientific experiment.  The APA board turned down my initial research proposal.  You know why it was rejected?  It wasn't because it was unethical or ridiculous...it was rejected because nobody had done it yet.

In other words, I was not allowed to conduct an experiment simply because I had nobody to cite.  What a load of bullshit.

Well perhaps they wouldn't give you money because you haven't "shown you could do it" which is legitimate when it comes to novel experiments. The problem is that many people considered capable actually aren't, instead CV's and publications are used as a heuristic.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
June 23, 2012, 10:05:12 PM
#52

I've become a complete convert to the bayesian way of thinking. I believe once there is a critical mass of researchers thinking in that manner it will go a long way towards improving the system. Second point is that researchers need to reduce their reliance on government funding in every way possible. The very basis of the funding is arguably unethical, on top of that it relies on a relatively easily corruptible, centralized authority to distribute funds for reasons other than merit. Science is very, very sick right now and I know I am not alone in this opinion. I don't have time now but once I have finished my current project I plan to spend some time developing a system to crowdsource funding of individual components of research proposals (to supplement government funding..for now) and crowdsource some of the tedious work when possible. I would encourage others to attempt the same in their free time.

I think Christopher Langan said it best about the peer-review system of meritocracy.  First off, unless you have at least a masters degree (and usually only a doctoral degree, depending on the field), nobody in academia really cares about what you have to say.  If I recall, Langan asserted that even those with advanced degrees can only make little "tentative moves" forward, but nobody is really able to do anything too radical to shake things up.

Case in point, I took an undergraduate research design class for which we had to submit a research proposal to the APA board and then conduct a scientific experiment.  The APA board turned down my initial research proposal.  You know why it was rejected?  It wasn't because it was unethical or ridiculous...it was rejected because nobody had done it yet.

In other words, I was not allowed to conduct an experiment simply because I had nobody to cite.  What a load of bullshit.
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