Topic: The Starting Of The "Bitcoin Derivative" - What side are you on? - page 3. (Read 5125 times)
March 30, 2013, 10:53:44 AM
With commodities you have a paper trail that can be manipulated, counterfeited, and estimated with rehypothecations of assets. Traditional derivative bets cannot be made with Bitcoin because you will be forced to prove ownership by signing your addresses. Good luck loaning bitcoins you don't have. Someday you may even be required to use triple-entry accounting. Better enjoy the wine while you can.
March 30, 2013, 10:29:31 AM
Once the financial capitalists start messing around heavily with Bitcoin, Bitcoin will be doomed.
March 30, 2013, 09:50:27 AM
Al-
What happens when the buyers of btc options want delivery instead of a fiat profit? The sellers of these options would certainly have to own some bitcoin to fulfill the contract then...where are they going to get it...
There is no physical constraint to delivery of btc...there is no limit as to who is able to take delivery of btc...
I don't have a crude oil storage tank in my backyard to take delivery of crude I buy via options...but I do have a blockchain.info wallet...
It's a Derivative, It would trading it on Wall Street. People with bitcoin already are not the target but rather the outside investors that are willing to take the risk, With a derivative their is no need to take ownership of the commodity rather it is a straight up bet based on the future value the "winner" get paid with the money from the incorrect investors no bitcoin ever needs to trade hands. it is not about trading bit coin but rather betting on the street. the only downfall is if the derivative causes bitcoin value to plummet the people currently with bitcoin holdings or mining operations will be the ones loosing the most. What happens when the buyers of btc options want delivery instead of a fiat profit? The sellers of these options would certainly have to own some bitcoin to fulfill the contract then...where are they going to get it...
There is no physical constraint to delivery of btc...there is no limit as to who is able to take delivery of btc...
I don't have a crude oil storage tank in my backyard to take delivery of crude I buy via options...but I do have a blockchain.info wallet...
"Burp" More Wine Please!!!!
Al -
Yeah, and wall street would get a short sharp lesson in volatility if they start to stir in bitcoins with their big paws.
March 30, 2013, 09:15:05 AM
I have a theory.
This is nothing more than a long winded version of "what if Wall Street big money comes in and manipulates the price of BTC to make a quick buck?" post we have seen a thousand times before.
The theory goes that they create a bunch of unbacked derivatives. They also take up a large BTC trading position. Sell a bunch of derivatives. Using their large BTC holdings and obviously large USD holdings manipulate the BTC market to their advantage in this new derivative market. If that is what is being proposed then I only see a bunch of fiat derivative gamblers being taken. BTC traders can just go along for the ride.
Is that is "Al"?
This is nothing more than a long winded version of "what if Wall Street big money comes in and manipulates the price of BTC to make a quick buck?" post we have seen a thousand times before.
The theory goes that they create a bunch of unbacked derivatives. They also take up a large BTC trading position. Sell a bunch of derivatives. Using their large BTC holdings and obviously large USD holdings manipulate the BTC market to their advantage in this new derivative market. If that is what is being proposed then I only see a bunch of fiat derivative gamblers being taken. BTC traders can just go along for the ride.
Is that is "Al"?
March 30, 2013, 08:57:04 AM
Paper gold is working so well for that market, seems silly not to try and pull the same stunt with paper Bitcoins.
March 30, 2013, 08:37:29 AM
you didn't answer the question...I know it's a derivative that would trade on wall street....I asked what happens if buyers of btc calls, for example, actually want delivery of btc instead of settlement in fiat?
Your betting on Bitcoin Value not receiving BTC in return....Wall Stret does NOT give a shit about your coin brother....
Have a good night im driving home now...
Tag you "IT" Vic...
Haha
Al-
How is your "sanitized" derivative (all positions are closed out before the settlement date with no actual trading) supposed to influence the bitcoin market?
You can't crash the real price without selling real bitcoins. I guess you could hope to have a psychological effect on bitcoin holders, but I'm unconvinced.
... because psychological effects have never run rampage on the bitcoin price, for sure...
March 30, 2013, 08:24:40 AM
Now that "Al" is sober maybe he could explain how side bets on BTC price, that are not even backed by real actual BTC are suposed to effect actual BTC price? He said these Wall Street gamblers don't care about us and Bitcoin so why should we give a shit about them and their fiat gambling addiction?
March 30, 2013, 08:12:34 AM
This should get interesting when Popescu, cypherdoc, Death&Taxes have a good read.
March 30, 2013, 03:37:42 AM
I'll just translate for those who aren't in on the central banking crime syndicate. This is talking about a vehicle for the banks to pay for someone to suppress the Bitcoin economy "by other means". As in, "that's a nice business you got there, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it."
That I could believe.
March 30, 2013, 03:26:14 AM
I'll just translate for those who aren't in on the central banking crime syndicate. This is talking about a vehicle for the banks to pay for someone to suppress the Bitcoin economy "by other means". As in, "that's a nice business you got there, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it."
March 30, 2013, 03:20:17 AM
you didn't answer the question...I know it's a derivative that would trade on wall street....I asked what happens if buyers of btc calls, for example, actually want delivery of btc instead of settlement in fiat?
Your betting on Bitcoin Value not receiving BTC in return....Wall Stret does NOT give a shit about your coin brother....
Have a good night im driving home now...
Tag you "IT" Vic...
Haha
Al-
How is your "sanitized" derivative (all positions are closed out before the settlement date with no actual trading) supposed to influence the bitcoin market?
You can't crash the real price without selling real bitcoins. I guess you could hope to have a psychological effect on bitcoin holders, but I'm unconvinced.
March 30, 2013, 03:14:12 AM
lol...I think that says it all....bahaha...more wine?
March 30, 2013, 03:13:13 AM
you didn't answer the question...I know it's a derivative that would trade on wall street....I asked what happens if buyers of btc calls, for example, actually want delivery of btc instead of settlement in fiat?
Your betting on Bitcoin Value not receiving BTC in return....Wall Stret does NOT give a shit about your coin brother....
Have a good night im driving home now...
Tag you "IT" Vic...
Haha
Al-
you didn't answer the question...I know it's a derivative that would trade on wall street....I asked what happens if buyers of btc calls, for example, actually want delivery of btc instead of settlement in fiat?
but but but
There already are 'derivatives' of btc - people have done IPO activities selling stock in bitcoin and you can buy options on bitcoins and bonds and all sorts of stuff.
Mpex (just in case you guys missed it)
There already are 'derivatives' of btc - people have done IPO activities selling stock in bitcoin and you can buy options on bitcoins and bonds and all sorts of stuff.
Mpex (just in case you guys missed it)
Al-
What happens when the buyers of btc options want delivery instead of a fiat profit? The sellers of these options would certainly have to own some bitcoin to fulfill the contract then...where are they going to get it...
There is no physical constraint to delivery of btc...there is no limit as to who is able to take delivery of btc...
I don't have a crude oil storage tank in my backyard to take delivery of crude I buy via options...but I do have a blockchain.info wallet...
It's a Derivative, It would trading it on Wall Street. People with bitcoin already are not the target but rather the outside investors that are willing to take the risk, With a derivative their is no need to take ownership of the commodity rather it is a straight up bet based on the future value the "winner" get paid with the money from the incorrect investors no bitcoin ever needs to trade hands. it is not about trading bit coin but rather betting on the street. the only downfall is if the derivative causes bitcoin value to plummet the people currently with bitcoin holdings or mining operations will be the ones loosing the most. What happens when the buyers of btc options want delivery instead of a fiat profit? The sellers of these options would certainly have to own some bitcoin to fulfill the contract then...where are they going to get it...
There is no physical constraint to delivery of btc...there is no limit as to who is able to take delivery of btc...
I don't have a crude oil storage tank in my backyard to take delivery of crude I buy via options...but I do have a blockchain.info wallet...
"Burp" More Wine Please!!!!
Al -
Quote
A comment commonly seen in Bitcoin related discussions, usually made by people in the banking/finance sector, is “How do I short this shit?”
peculium.net/2013/03/10/consent-and-the-price-of-bitcoins-in-china/
peculium.net/2013/03/10/consent-and-the-price-of-bitcoins-in-china/
Al-
What happens when the buyers of btc options want delivery instead of a fiat profit? The sellers of these options would certainly have to own some bitcoin to fulfill the contract then...where are they going to get it...
There is no physical constraint to delivery of btc...there is no limit as to who is able to take delivery of btc...
I don't have a crude oil storage tank in my backyard to take delivery of crude I buy via options...but I do have a blockchain.info wallet...
What happens when the buyers of btc options want delivery instead of a fiat profit? The sellers of these options would certainly have to own some bitcoin to fulfill the contract then...where are they going to get it...
There is no physical constraint to delivery of btc...there is no limit as to who is able to take delivery of btc...
I don't have a crude oil storage tank in my backyard to take delivery of crude I buy via options...but I do have a blockchain.info wallet...
Quote
To be brief, Bitcoin’s price setting is being hijacked by vested business interests that have little to no concern for the larger Bitcoin community. Going completely against the idea of a decentralized currency, a majority of Bitcoin users mysteriously look in one central direction, mtgox, to tell them what their money is worth. At the same time, mtgox’s price is obviously being manipulated and the price is being kept under its true value. A comment commonly seen in Bitcoin related discussions, usually made by people in the banking/finance sector, is “How do I short this shit?”
peculium.net/2013/03/10/consent-and-the-price-of-bitcoins-in-china/
peculium.net/2013/03/10/consent-and-the-price-of-bitcoins-in-china/
FUD
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