The State of Cryptocurrency Mining by David Vorick (Sia)

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: gentlemand on March 19, 2019, 07:21:13 AM

He did foresee it - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6306

The requirement and incentives to keep others honest is still there, albeit moved up from individual to commercial entities. Each user mining and validating is long dead and getting deader by the second for Bitcoin at least.

Well hell... my apologies for being that guy screaming at the tsunami. I guess I listened to far to many scammers trying to make us believe decentralization is something attainable. Even satoshi knew decentralization in a world with unequal resources couldn’t happen. Honest and crypto. Two words that need to get a relationship with each other for crypto to even be considered. But hell look at the fraud Coming out daily. . Doesn’t look like honesty is a virtue people take pride in. A symptom of the greater disease that is capitalism

BR

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: d57heinz on March 19, 2019, 07:09:50 AM

Why did satoshi put together all those other great people ideas if he didn’t see the problem at hand. Centralized power corrupts even the purest of minds over time. What exactly is the point of all this other than to sell snake oil to some to enrich others. What do you feel this will accomplish?

BR

He did foresee it - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6306

The requirement and incentives to keep others honest is still there, albeit moved up from individual to commercial entities. Each user mining and validating is long dead and getting deader by the second for Bitcoin at least.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: gentlemand on March 19, 2019, 07:02:53 AM

It is what it is. The same thing happens in all areas of life. If economies of scale and finance produce enough advantage then it's going to congregate near the top. It'll be interesting to see how committed other coins remain to combating it. It seems a bit like trying to hold back the tide by shouting at it to me.

What is the point of Decentralized crypto then? Why not just have one server run the whole network. That would be efficient. Why waste resources and heat up an already pissed off planet. I mean hell let’s add solar to the mix and trap the suns heat here as well. I mean what could go wrong. What is the point of this if in ten years we end up right back where we started. The top with all the means and the rest of us bottom feeding. Why did satoshi put together all those other great people ideas if he didn’t see the problem at hand. Centralized power corrupts even the purest of minds over time. What exactly is the point of all this other than to sell snake oil to some to enrich others. What do you feel this will accomplish?

BR

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: ?? on ??

I remember my roommates mining back in 2010. Back then and until a couple years ago the "little guy" seemed to have a fighting chance in the crypto world. It's sad to see the state of mining shift towards the "big guys". I'm hoping Bitmain gets supplanted by someone with better ethics and that power can shift back to those running small setups.

It is what it is. The same thing happens in all areas of life. If economies of scale and finance produce enough advantage then it's going to congregate near the top. It'll be interesting to see how committed other coins remain to combating it. It seems a bit like trying to hold back the tide by shouting at it to me.

V-D-S

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Quote from: d57heinz on June 10, 2018, 01:54:15 PM

Honestly I wish this wasn’t driven mostly by get rich traders. They give two shits about how the system should be working. Honestly price should continue to head down as the whole idea of bitcoins worth is at jeopardy(decentralization). It should be nearing 0$ per bitcoin. Bitmain owns entirely too much of this space. The only way to remedy this situation is for all devs to stand together for the betterment of mankind. Not their own personal wealth. EVERYONE! If we just all walk away and ignore them what power do they have? ZERO! If we all succeed we all do better. When the money lies in only the hands of a few well it don’t take a long look at history to see how that plays out. Def a turning point for me whether this whole thing is a bust or will make it.

How do we walk away from their mining power??

Even if everybody stopped buying their stuff, they still make the best stuff..... So this seems like a catalyst for what they already have in motion.

Bitcoin will eventually die. Every form of currency every existed has/will off. Democracy didn't completely remove consolidation of power. It did improve the situation.

Bitcoin has to be taken not as a panacea but as a guideline with which new ideas can be developed.

This is not written in disagreement with you, it's intended to be a cheerful but firm reminder. Read the myth of Sisyphus. Remember, life is gritty, and the same problems are going to come back again and again. We can't control the repetition, but we can control our attitudes. We can move fwd with a sense of internal competition. Take things one step further. Do things a little better than we could do them last time.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Some may think this. but it is not what bitmain needs to do.

they simply hold back tech and or firmware.

An s9 now can magically do 750 watts and 9th with firmware up grade.

So lets see they build 2 s9's keep them run them at 750 watts an 9th or 1500 watts and 9th

sell the third one to a miner for top dollar set it to do 1500 watts and 14th. it will burn up faster and it effectively pays for the 2 they use in house.

better yet they had hashnest with s7's and s9's so if you purchased an s7 share they charged yo at 250 watts a th while they mined with an 82 watt a th miner.

they did sell old miners filled with dust years ago. Until some clever motherfucker figured out the scheme I outlined above.

They also raped and pillaged gpu mining by simply selling endless amounts of gear until it crashed all prices.

which is what I don't understand about them. As that was simply fucking stupid business on their part.

mikeywith

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be constructive or S.T.F.U

Quote from: ?? on ??

while they use the machine for 6 months and get all the profit, then sell it to you.

this is the unicorn of crypto. a thing that people have only in their mind, i have yet to see a single solid proof about this statement that many people keep on repeating.

don't get me wrong, bitmain are capable of doing worse stuff than this, but this theory of using the miners and then re-selling them is as stupid as mining bitcoin with a pentium 1 processor.

anyone who had experienced brand new miners and used miners can make certain that putting a used device back to brand new status is practically impossible.

if you mine with the miner for 24 hours straight, it will be nightmare to try and bring it back to brand new shape, not to mention that smell of fresh launch that all electronics have, i can almost differentiate a brand new ASIC from a used ASIC with my eyes closed.

bdbabiak77

jr. member

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I've been in bitcoin since 2012. Apparently, I was frightened about centralization, and I made a GitHub project in 2013 that I thought would solve this.

I know this sounds really stupid, and probably wouldn't do anything, but my idea was that when you spend the coins in any way, the value is divided by the balance squared of the address. My idea was that coins would be repelling each other like similarly charged electric particles.

I have forgotten about this for a while until reading this, but would this do anything to frustrate ASICs or disrupt centralization?

I apologize for wasting everyone's time. My programming is pretty weak and my ideas are probably fantastical.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

I put 0 trust that humans won’t fuck this up in order to keep their magic afloat. Hipocracy in this world manifested by capitalism will be the downfall of humanity. Whilst you all fight to keep it decentralized and lose your shirts I might add the ones in power with real money will centralize this. Hell look at ibm they aren’t even gonna touch bitcoin. They made their own blockchain. Ego’s at their finest. I can do it better no I can. Let’s not just all get together and figure this out. Capitalism has it to where we fight amongst ourselves even with a common goal. How fucking sad is that!

BR

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: Blongen on November 21, 2018, 11:53:10 AM

So how do you ensure the network stays decentralized? Or are we just set for centralized blockchains?

How does that affect your perception of the ecosystem?

There are people with way more understanding of the nuts and bolts and dynamics of it than myself. But as time passes it should becoming increasingly clear that at least maintaining the appearance of decentralisation is vital. Without it the whole thing is worthless.

Shitcoins like Bcash/BCH/BCHSV/BCHABC have effectively given up on it and that's going to bite them big time eventually or they'll remain insignificant enough for people not to care which is the case for most of them. BTC doesn't and shouldn't have that luxury.

There'll be ever more powerful factions. If there are enough of them then that maintains decentralisation. If there aren't then at least let's hope they won't be dim enough to rock the boat. Any overt assertion of power from one group would either turn the whole thing to dust or, hopefully, drive the effort towards less centralisation.

Unfortunately since humans are humans they may require a brutal lesson in why it's important before it's taken seriously enough. There's lots of posing about it. Not much action.

Blongen

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Borden Will Just Hodl.

Quote from: gentlemand on May 13, 2018, 02:38:17 PM

https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b

A fine overall read here from someone close to the front lines.

TLDR - unless you're Bitmain or someone similar you're probably eventual toast.

So how do you ensure the network stays decentralized? Or are we just set for centralized blockchains?

How does that affect your perception of the ecosystem?

Quote from: dutchlincoln on October 09, 2018, 10:39:33 AM

Ah, nice read from David, the biggest Conman himself....

Pitty he lives that far. i'd be happy to throw my A3 through his windows...

Wow! That's a lot of Hate! This guy must have pissed you off!

dutchlincoln

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Ah, nice read from David, the biggest Conman himself....

Pitty he lives that far. i'd be happy to throw my A3 through his windows...

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: ?? on ??

Who would have thought that the all new currencies will end up where all things end up.
In the hands of big money. There where no safeguards planned in, not even to protect the very people the coin was designed for.

I did.

What else would anyone expect? Money and power congregates into small pools everywhere. Even if a coin's creator goes all out to prevent it the chances are someone will find a way around if there's the incentive to do it.

It's going to take someone or something exceptional to come up with a system that prevents it.

NotFuzzyWarm

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

Quote

I see now that no matter how good an idea money comes in and taints the shit outta it

Um, in this case cryptocurrency *is* money. That makes ^^ a rather redundant statement...

d57heinz

legendary

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: ?? on ??

If this is possible in a world that is full of manipulation is yet to be seen. Look what happen to bitcoin. I’m still trying to figure out why I’m so pessimistic about it’s outcome when I thought for sure this was a beautifully laid out idea. I see now that no matter how good an idea money comes in and taints the shit outta it

Hmm now where have I seen this before?😊

BR

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: ?? on ??

Nice topic I like everyone's efforts on this topic. But I have a concern is their a single legit site which offers cloud mining and actually pays.

I have came across many sites at first they offer free hashpower to start mining but when you reach to the withdrawal limit it will either ask you to get a upgrade or will reject your withdrawal request with one or another reason.

It's really a big mess.

I've always maintained a healthy distance from cloud mining. Too many risks, too little reward. And that's just for the genuine, reputable companies, never mind all the scams out there. For the few fortunate people who did manage to make some money from it, many of them are now reporting that they aren't earning anymore. Tread carefully before you hand over any money.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: ?? on ??

Here's your Proof of Decentralization folks: http://anticoins.org/

Thank you for this. I haven’t time to read it all yet but just the beginning sentence already has me intrigued. If this is possible in a world that is full of manipulation is yet to be seen. Look what happen to bitcoin. I’m still trying to figure out why I’m so pessimistic about it’s outcome when I thought for sure this was a beautifully laid out idea. I see now that no matter how good an idea money comes in and taints the shit outta it. It’s sad that we allow this type of manipulation. Nothing should have this type of control over your lives. Everything in moderation and that includes your wealth. If you have a disporportionate amount means someone else is doing without. In a free market this maybe is ok. Yet to be seen. But in today’s world the mainupation with money has everything fucking backwards. How we come out of this on top hasn’t come to me yet. Sure won’t be bitcoin I know that now. It’s sad.

BR

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: ?? on ??

Proof of Work mining will never be sustainable long-term.

If BTC onboards enough old school finance then its dominance will be sealed forever. It's not exactly threatened by anything as is and I've heard very few of them talk about any altcoin. Though they should be thinking about sustainability, that's the last thing any of them will care about and I'm sure more than a few won't understand what mining actually is. There'll always be miners ready to step up.

The best that can happen is that it drives development in renewables and miners get more efficient.

d57heinz

legendary

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: stompix on August 01, 2018, 10:00:38 AM

Quote from: d57heinz on June 10, 2018, 01:54:15 PM

The only way to remedy this situation is for all devs to stand together for the betterment of mankind. Not their own personal wealth. EVERYONE!

Keep dreaming...

From the last article gentlemand posted:

Quote

Among those who purchased the A3 on the Bitmain’s flash sale, there were contributors, coders and moderators as well. The perfect storm.

The Sia community got betrayed by their own members, what do you expect from people that don't know anything about the past of Bitmain or their practices?
Do you think they will care about morality and stop thinking about $?

If it were like that Zara and H&M and the others would close their factories in South Asia, people would stop buying iPhones made by suicideconn, and the single real competitor that might be able to take on Bitmain, Samsung would be disbanded just like zaibatsus were after the ww2.

I've always said it, 99% of the world thinks and acts based on how much the balance and the possible balance in their wallet might be.

I’ll sum up the state in one word. FUCKED!!! Excuse my French

Br

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: d57heinz on June 10, 2018, 01:54:15 PM

The only way to remedy this situation is for all devs to stand together for the betterment of mankind. Not their own personal wealth. EVERYONE!

Keep dreaming...

From the last article gentlemand posted:

Quote

Among those who purchased the A3 on the Bitmain’s flash sale, there were contributors, coders and moderators as well. The perfect storm.

The Sia community got betrayed by their own members, what do you expect from people that don't know anything about the past of Bitmain or their practices?
Do you think they will care about morality and stop thinking about $?

If it were like that Zara and H&M and the others would close their factories in South Asia, people would stop buying iPhones made by suicideconn, and the single real competitor that might be able to take on Bitmain, Samsung would be disbanded just like zaibatsus were after the ww2.

I've always said it, 99% of the world thinks and acts based on how much the balance and the possible balance in their wallet might be.

Topic: The State of Cryptocurrency Mining by David Vorick (Sia) (Read 25612 times)