The story of Bold Funding. - page 5.

bitrebel

sr. member

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Quote from: hugolp on August 31, 2011, 04:06:39 PM

Quote from: bitrebel on August 31, 2011, 03:55:51 PM

Bitcoins are not money or currency and could not legally be considered "assets" since "assets" must have determined "value". IMO

Bitcoin is not legal tender, but it is a currency. Also, its an asset with an easily determinable value.

We'll have to disagree on this one. Bitcoins are no more a currency than sea shells. "Value" cannot be determined as it's relative to nothing. It's not tied or pegged to the dollar or any currency, so therefore it carries no determinable "value" for tax or legal purposes.

In other words, if I have a Sand Pail and it's full of sand and sea shells, and the court wants some "value" from me, they are not going to go after the sand and sea shells for seizure. Bitcoins are practically nonexistant in relation to the real physical tangible and LEGAL world.

Mind you Hugolp, i'm talking "legal" terminology. We can all call bitcoins "currency" and agree it's our currency, but whether or not it can be legally defined as a "currency" or that it can have established value in the legal arena is what I am disagreeing with.

hugolp

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Radix-The Decentralized Finance Protocol

Quote from: bitrebel on August 31, 2011, 03:55:51 PM

Bitcoins are not money or currency and could not legally be considered "assets" since "assets" must have determined "value". IMO

Bitcoin is not legal tender, but it is a currency. Also, its an asset with an easily determinable value.

bitrebel

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 251

Quote from: wolftaur on August 31, 2011, 03:41:37 PM

Quote from: Are-you-a-wizard? on August 31, 2011, 02:49:04 PM

You know that bruce has publicly said that the 25k BTC he "lost" is nowhere near the total amount he actually owns.

What do you think the chances are that he shoved a load of the money he stole off people with his scams into Bitcoin and then if required he could tell a court he doesn't have the money so can't pay it back, and he legally wouldn't be lieing.

Yeah. Which is why I say someone should let the court know. When you owe money and they're looking at whether you can pay they look at all your assets, not just the change in your couch cushions.

Hiding assets to escape paying a court judgement is a felony in most cases.

Bitcoins are not money or currency and could not legally be considered "assets" since "assets" must have determined "value". IMO

wolftaur

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Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: Are-you-a-wizard? on August 31, 2011, 02:49:04 PM

You know that bruce has publicly said that the 25k BTC he "lost" is nowhere near the total amount he actually owns.

What do you think the chances are that he shoved a load of the money he stole off people with his scams into Bitcoin and then if required he could tell a court he doesn't have the money so can't pay it back, and he legally wouldn't be lieing.

Yeah. Which is why I say someone should let the court know. When you owe money and they're looking at whether you can pay they look at all your assets, not just the change in your couch cushions.

Hiding assets to escape paying a court judgement is a felony in most cases.

Are-you-a-wizard?

member

Activity: 98

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You know that bruce has publicly said that the 25k BTC he "lost" is nowhere near the total amount he actually owns.

What do you think the chances are that he shoved a load of the money he stole off people with his scams into Bitcoin and then if required he could tell a court he doesn't have the money so can't pay it back, and he legally wouldn't be lieing.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: greyhawk on August 31, 2011, 02:18:53 PM

Quote from: PinkiePie on August 31, 2011, 02:06:54 PM

Quote from: tasarz on August 30, 2011, 11:58:30 PM

Any chance you've been convicted of prostitution? Insurance fraud? Ever been evicted?

All the pieces are starting to fall together- scammers upon scammers upon scammers. Is this really the person we want as the public face of bitcoin?

How is it a scam to try and help people save their homes? This is a great libertarian alternative to big government welfare solutions to the problem. It's sad that their business didn't work out, but that isn't criminal.

There was a saying in ancient Greece, "E pluribus unum", which means, "Let the buyer beware". Not every business arrangement is going to work out in your favor, if they truly wanted to save their homes they should have made their mortgage payments.

I personally am more of a fan of the saying "ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam". It means "do not let your shopping cart be emptied by censors", which I think aptly explains the evils of Capitalism.

Then you don't understand Capitalism, much less it's evils.

BlockHash

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Quote from: greyhawk on August 31, 2011, 02:18:53 PM

Quote from: PinkiePie on August 31, 2011, 02:06:54 PM

Quote from: tasarz on August 30, 2011, 11:58:30 PM

Any chance you've been convicted of prostitution? Insurance fraud? Ever been evicted?

All the pieces are starting to fall together- scammers upon scammers upon scammers. Is this really the person we want as the public face of bitcoin?

How is it a scam to try and help people save their homes? This is a great libertarian alternative to big government welfare solutions to the problem. It's sad that their business didn't work out, but that isn't criminal.

There was a saying in ancient Greece, "E pluribus unum", which means, "Let the buyer beware". Not every business arrangement is going to work out in your favor, if they truly wanted to save their homes they should have made their mortgage payments.

I personally am more of a fan of the saying "ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam". It means "do not let your shopping cart be emptied by censors", which I think aptly explains the evils of Capitalism.

I'm a big fan of the Spanish take on this in the late 1400's, "Las cucarachas entran, pero no pueden salir", which is "The Roaches enter but cannot leave".

MoonShadow

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Quote from: wolftaur on August 31, 2011, 04:34:57 AM

Quote from: Fletch on August 31, 2011, 04:23:17 AM

Quote from: wolftaur on August 31, 2011, 03:25:35 AM

Well, in Bruce's defense, he did lock this thread when he created it, so he might not have been expecting people to end up responding, picking it apart, and posting rebuttal and evidence to support the rebuttal once a moderator had unlocked the thread along with moving it into the off-topic section.

Non-moderators can lock threads?

Yeah, I've seen it done a few times. Just about always for an illegitimate reason, too. I'm guessing you can lock the thread if you made it. I've never tried, so that's a guess.

True. If you started it, you can stop it. Unless you are a newb, but then you shouldn't be able to start threads anyway.

greyhawk

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Activity: 952

Merit: 1009

Quote from: PinkiePie on August 31, 2011, 02:06:54 PM

Quote from: tasarz on August 30, 2011, 11:58:30 PM

Any chance you've been convicted of prostitution? Insurance fraud? Ever been evicted?

All the pieces are starting to fall together- scammers upon scammers upon scammers. Is this really the person we want as the public face of bitcoin?

How is it a scam to try and help people save their homes? This is a great libertarian alternative to big government welfare solutions to the problem. It's sad that their business didn't work out, but that isn't criminal.

There was a saying in ancient Greece, "E pluribus unum", which means, "Let the buyer beware". Not every business arrangement is going to work out in your favor, if they truly wanted to save their homes they should have made their mortgage payments.

I personally am more of a fan of the saying "ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam". It means "do not let your shopping cart be emptied by censors", which I think aptly explains the evils of Capitalism.

MoonShadow

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1010

Quote from: PinkiePie on August 31, 2011, 02:06:54 PM

There was a saying in ancient Greece, "E pluribus unum", which means, "Let the buyer beware".

I think you mean "Caveat emptor". "E pluribus unum" means "from many, one".

PinkiePie

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

GROUNDED FOR TROLLING

Quote from: tasarz on August 30, 2011, 11:58:30 PM

Any chance you've been convicted of prostitution? Insurance fraud? Ever been evicted?

All the pieces are starting to fall together- scammers upon scammers upon scammers. Is this really the person we want as the public face of bitcoin?

How is it a scam to try and help people save their homes? This is a great libertarian alternative to big government welfare solutions to the problem. It's sad that their business didn't work out, but that isn't criminal.

There was a saying in ancient Greece, "E pluribus unum", which means, "Let the buyer beware". Not every business arrangement is going to work out in your favor, if they truly wanted to save their homes they should have made their mortgage payments.

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

I'm kinda new around here. I'm just learning about Bruce and Mybitcoin etc. If anyone is curious how this looks to someone new to the party:

Regardless of if *any* of this is true about Bruce, he should take himself out of the spotlight. It doesn't take a PR genius to know that you don't want any of this stuff even slightly connected with ANY investment, in this case Bitcoin. Now Bruce having been through enough poor business experiences *should* know that. His insistence to remain vocal and involved in the Bitcoin 'community' leads me to believe that although he knows his current situation is detrimental to the image of Bitcoin, he doesn't care enough to remove himself. What his motives are at this point are unclear, but they do not look pure in the slightest, and makes me very very hesitant about investing more into Bitcoin, knowing this is an avalanche just waiting to happen. Even worse if it happens in the spotlight.

Just a new guys perspective.

KeyserSoze

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

http://www.archive.org/details/501HowToBe1OnGoogleSeo-TheBruceWagnerShow
@14:50

Words of wisdom from Bruce Wagner:
"It's kinda like everything in life. If you try and scam your way to the top, you're gonna fall on your face."

wolftaur

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: BlockHash on August 31, 2011, 09:17:57 AM

Quote from: freequant on August 31, 2011, 09:00:24 AM

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101308-2008#

Quote

INDEX NO.: 101308-2008
PLAINTIFF: POST, JAMES
DEFENDANT: WAGNER, BRUCE
CASE STATUS: RESTORED (REOPENED)
ACTION: OTHER
LAST UPDATE: 08-31-2011 10:00AM
JUSTICE: TINGLING, M.A.

So he can afford to jet-set around the world, host conferences, rent very expensive apartments in NY, pay his staff and buy a shit load of new equipment ( which is rarely used) but as of last count he owes over a cool million to his victims and the state(s) as a result of his massive fraud schemes?

This will end well. I'm sure there are plenty of agencies angling to get their hands on all of those ill-gotten gains. Just hope there's enough left to actually compensate the real victims of his scams.

Someone needs to send a letter to the court clerk making sure they know that Bruce had access to over $250,000.

More than 25,000 bitcoins he lost to mybitcoin.com by his own public statement. I'm sure the court would love knowing Bruce had all that money and had no intention whatsoever of paying the court's judgment...

BlockHash

full member

Activity: 406

Merit: 100

Quote from: freequant on August 31, 2011, 09:00:24 AM

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101308-2008#

Quote

INDEX NO.: 101308-2008
PLAINTIFF: POST, JAMES
DEFENDANT: WAGNER, BRUCE
CASE STATUS: RESTORED (REOPENED)
ACTION: OTHER
LAST UPDATE: 08-31-2011 10:00AM
JUSTICE: TINGLING, M.A.

So he can afford to jet-set around the world, host conferences, rent very expensive apartments in NY, pay his staff and buy a shit load of new equipment ( which is rarely used) but as of last count he owes over a cool million to his victims and the state(s) as a result of his massive fraud schemes?

This will end well. I'm sure there are plenty of agencies angling to get their hands on all of those ill-gotten gains. Just hope there's enough left to actually compensate the real victims of his scams.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: hugolp on August 31, 2011, 03:00:48 AM

If using the three points means being Bruce, more than half the forum is Bruce.

Not in the characteristic way Bruce uses them. He could of course just be a fanboy, but it seems pretty suspicious. "Tod Williams" wrote in the same style too.

Quote from: hugolp on August 31, 2011, 03:00:48 AM

Its this kind of ridiculous assertions from low count post members that make all the acusations look extremely stupid and basically an orchestrated campaign.

Right...

Another example of Bruce's writing style.

Quote from: Bruce Wagner on November 23, 2010, 10:59:17 PM

I see that -- it changed right before my very eyes, as I was using it...

MyBitcoin.com has taken my advice... and made a much needed improvement to their appearance.

I emailed them last week and said, "MyBitcoin is Ugly! It's needs a fresh modern look. Simple single-color rectangular buttons that LOOK and work well on Android / iPhone smartphones."

Well, they did it.

I must say, BRAVO MyBitcoin. You look better than ever!

Now, I won't be embarrassed to tell my friends -- who are business professionals -- that, "Yes. This IS the easiest web interface for using Bitcoin." ( Before it looked so amateurish... like a drunk teenager had designed it in an hour. lol )

They say..... Perception is Reality.

It's IMPORTANT that our tools, and sites, etc. LOOK MODERN, sophisticated, new, hip, and professionally designed (even when we create them ourselves over a weekend, like I did with BitcoinMe.com)....

MtGox.com is always winning high praise for it's sleek modern design too. I'm proud to show it to my friends too. (I just wish it were slightly easier for non-tech newbies to use as a primary account and payment system - like MyBitcoin is.)

Bravo Guys!

...or this:

Quote from: Bruce Wagner on November 29, 2010, 07:31:49 PM

Someone recently asked me to add TxtEagle.com to our BitcoinPromote.com list of entities to target....

After reading all about what TxtEagle does... They take large repetitive tasks and split them up into a zillion tiny tasks... Tasks that can be done via SMS... by the poorest of people.

This gave me the idea:

If they could be paid in Bitcoin.... They would be able to greatly benefit by having some sort of an SMS front-end / interface to their MyBitcoin account (or their MtGox account).

That way, those poor people (who likely have no computer or internet access), could still conduct business via MyBitcoin..... all via SMS.

Developers?

freequant

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 500

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101308-2008#

Quote

INDEX NO.: 101308-2008
PLAINTIFF: POST, JAMES
DEFENDANT: WAGNER, BRUCE
CASE STATUS: RESTORED (REOPENED)
ACTION: OTHER
LAST UPDATE: 08-31-2011 10:00AM
JUSTICE: TINGLING, M.A.

bitfreak!

legendary

Activity: 1536

Merit: 1000

electronic [r]evolution

I can see why you've been so successful at scamming Bruce. I read your post and I almost believed you for a minute or two. But there are too many critical questions you have failed to answer (i.e. purposely avoided).

wolftaur

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: Fletch on August 31, 2011, 04:23:17 AM

Quote from: wolftaur on August 31, 2011, 03:25:35 AM

Well, in Bruce's defense, he did lock this thread when he created it, so he might not have been expecting people to end up responding, picking it apart, and posting rebuttal and evidence to support the rebuttal once a moderator had unlocked the thread along with moving it into the off-topic section.

Non-moderators can lock threads?

Yeah, I've seen it done a few times. Just about always for an illegitimate reason, too. I'm guessing you can lock the thread if you made it. I've never tried, so that's a guess.

Fletch

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

I'll have a steak sandwich and a... steak sandwich

Quote from: wolftaur on August 31, 2011, 03:25:35 AM

Well, in Bruce's defense, he did lock this thread when he created it, so he might not have been expecting people to end up responding, picking it apart, and posting rebuttal and evidence to support the rebuttal once a moderator had unlocked the thread along with moving it into the off-topic section.

Non-moderators can lock threads?

Topic: The story of Bold Funding. - page 5. (Read 14023 times)