Topic: The True Explanation of Ripple for Bitcoiners - page 6. (Read 17461 times)
Thanks for that post, I didn't realize exchanging IOUs was possible. Now things get complicated and I have to think. 
Say I exchange my USD.Bitstamp for USD.Foobit. Now the appropriate balances on my Ripple account and the Ripple accounts of my counterparties have changed. How do Bitstamp and Foobit reflect this on their account balances? I assume they would be saying I own 1 USD.Foobit and 0 USD.Bitstamp. Then, I go to Bitstamp and send my USD.Bitstamp from my Ripple address to theirs and they update my balance to 1 USD.Bitstamp.
For this system to work, the balances at Gateways need to be linked to the balances on Ripple, and the sync time must be smaller than the time it takes to make a withdrawal from the exchange interface, or otherwise they lose money. Is that the case with Bitstamp today?
Say I exchange my USD.Bitstamp for USD.Foobit. Now the appropriate balances on my Ripple account and the Ripple accounts of my counterparties have changed. How do Bitstamp and Foobit reflect this on their account balances? I assume they would be saying I own 1 USD.Foobit and 0 USD.Bitstamp. Then, I go to Bitstamp and send my USD.Bitstamp from my Ripple address to theirs and they update my balance to 1 USD.Bitstamp.
For this system to work, the balances at Gateways need to be linked to the balances on Ripple, and the sync time must be smaller than the time it takes to make a withdrawal from the exchange interface, or otherwise they lose money. Is that the case with Bitstamp today?
Do we really need 6 topics about Ripple in the main forum? Namecoin only has one and I have way more respect for it than the ripple guys trolling the trolls. I motion that a mod move all ripple threads be moved to Service Discussion/Alt. Currencies as appropriate.
Ripple is what your rectum will do when you find out all your money is gone
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
your behavior as a used car salesman here on the forum is what irks me.
Off topic (sorry): Mr. Bigg claims I am making all the inflammatory comments and yet he comes into the non-moderated thread and calls me an asshat lol. So on top of everything else he even contradicts himself. Good job!
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If you are holding the currency of a gateway that you don't have an account with, Ripple can easily exchange it for something that you would prefer to have by automatically going through order books and "rippling" through people who have extended trust to multiple gateways for the same currency.
Please take a look in what has being happening for the past few days. This feature is not an advantage in all cases.
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
your behavior as a used car salesman here on the forum is what irks me.
Off topic (sorry): Mr. Bigg claims I am making all the inflammatory comments and yet he comes into the non-moderated thread and calls me an asshat lol. So on top of everything else he even contradicts himself. Good job!
That liquidity goes for the XRP part, but the other currencies are tied to the gateway as an IOU afaik. That's why I would think there will be inertia and natural monopolies will emerge, and also because some gateway will be most trusted, like MtGox is.
Yes there can be a most trusted gateway (i.e. the one that manages to attract the largest total amount of deposits across all currencies). But those deposits can be used to exchange for balances at any other gateway. I'll give you an example, with two hypothetical gateways "Bitstamp" and "Foobit", that each issue both BTC and USD. Bitstamp is the big gateway and Foobit is the tiny one.
First recognize that there are 20 order books in this scenario (!!!):
BTC.Bitstamp -> XRP
BTC.Bitstamp -> USD.Bitstamp
BTC.Bitstamp -> BTC.Foobit
BTC.Bitstamp -> USD.Foobit
BTC.Foobit -> XRP
BTC.Foobit -> BTC.Bitstamp
BTC.Foobit -> USD.Bitstamp
BTC.Foobit -> USD.Foobit
USD.Bitstamp -> XRP
USD.Bitstamp -> BTC.Bitstamp
USD.Bitstamp -> BTC.Foobit
USD.Bitstamp -> USD.Foobit
USD.Foobit -> XRP
USD.Foobit -> BTC.Bitstamp
USD.Foobit -> USD.Bitstamp
USD.Foobit -> BTC.Foobit
XRP -> BTC.Bitstamp
XRP -> BTC.Foobit
XRP -> USD.Bitstamp
XRP -> USD.Foobit
Now imagine that someone places BTC up for sale in the BTC.Foobit -> USD.Foobit order book. How can someone who is holding USD.Bitstamp purchase these bitcoins? First recognize that we want to send Bitstamp USD and receive Bitstamp BTC. Now consider one possible path:
USD.Bitstamp -> USD.Foobit -> BTC.Foobit -> BTC.Bitstamp
Ripple will look at these order books to calculate the depth and price:
USD.Bitstamp -> USD.Foobit
USD.Foobit -> BTC.Foobit
BTC.Foobit -> BTC.Bitstamp
It is unlikely that gateways will maintain walls in these books, because it would expose them to counterparty risk. Instead, liquidity providers (I plan on being one) will use software to keep automated bid and ask walls in the appropriate order books. For example, I will accept Bitstamp USD and give you Foobit USD. I will need to charge a small premium, which I will build into the offer. I might give you 1 Foobit USD for every 1.03 Bitstamp USD that you give me.
Repeat the process for each order book and now Ripple can supply you those Bitstamp BTC in exchange for Bitstamp USD, even though the best prices and depth are in a different issuer's order book.
As you can imagine, the number of combinations of order books across all issuers and currencies will explode in number. An alternative is that liquidity providers can maintain bids and asks for issuers currencies in conversion to XRP. The path in the previous example could also be written this way:
USD.Bitstamp -> XRP -> USD.Foobit -> BTC.Foobit -> XRP -> BTC.Bitstamp
or this way:
USD.Bitstamp -> XRP -> USD.Foobit -> XRP -> BTC.Foobit -> XRP -> BTC.Bitstamp
These examples show how XRP can be used as a "bridge" currency. By the way, this is all in the wiki.
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Wouldn't this give you IOUs of different issuers? So that to redeem them, you would have to create an account with each issuer.
You don't need an account at each issuer. That's the whole point of Ripple. You deal with a gateway that you trust, to handle deposit and withdrawal, and then you can access everything on the Ripple network no matter who the issuer is.
If you are holding the currency of a gateway that you don't have an account with, Ripple can easily exchange it for something that you would prefer to have by automatically going through order books and "rippling" through people who have extended trust to multiple gateways for the same currency.
This is the distributed exchange Bitcoiners have been dreaming of!
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
your behavior as a used car salesman here on the forum is what irks me.
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Well that's not quite right. There will always be a "most popular gateway", where popularity is measured by the amount of funds on deposit. But since anyone can be a "liquidity provider", competition will create the situation where it doesn't much matter which gateway you deposit your funds at, or which order books you use to get your bitcoins.
That liquidity goes for the XRP part, but the other currencies are tied to the gateway as an IOU afaik. That's why I would think there will be inertia and natural monopolies will emerge, and also because some gateway will be most trusted, like MtGox is. In the Bitcoin system, it is already the case that Bitcoins can move freely (well, awaiting a few confirmations), and yet MtGox is king after years.
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A future version of the reference client will show order books that are a composite of multiple issuers, so when you buy Bitcoins using your USD balance your order can be filled from multiple exchanges at the same time.
Wouldn't this give you IOUs of different issuers? So that to redeem them, you would have to create an account with each issuer.Quote
I think that's actually a fair point. For sure, Ripple could have been presented better. It's quite confusing as it is.
Perhaps you could contribute some improvements to the presentation and explanations?
Perhaps you could contribute some improvements to the presentation and explanations?
Just don't hide that XRP are an alternative currency/store of value. There's already a VPN that accepts them.
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
smoothie's 'ignore' button is colored for a reason.
Jeff while your implications that I can be an ass are sometimes true, most of the time people ignore me simply because they can't handle the truth.
You seem like a very blunt person so I think you would understand.
smoothie's 'ignore' button is colored for a reason.
Yeah but I'm sitting in a glass house...
Guess what? I can create a Ripple in a day's time.
I just adjust the block generation time to 20 seconds(yeah, a lot of orphaned blocks and a lot of wasted computing power, but you guys will figure it out yourself right? In the end one branch will win, it's called consensus!
)
And just to make sure that no one gets harmed because of their discarded blocks, I will just generate all the coins(XOPs I call them
) in the genesis block, and reward them to whichever validators that please me most.
Job done!
I just adjust the block generation time to 20 seconds(yeah, a lot of orphaned blocks and a lot of wasted computing power, but you guys will figure it out yourself right? In the end one branch will win, it's called consensus!
)And just to make sure that no one gets harmed because of their discarded blocks, I will just generate all the coins(XOPs I call them
) in the genesis block, and reward them to whichever validators that please me most.Job done!
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
smoothie's 'ignore' button is colored for a reason.
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
So that explains you PMing me and judging me on my stated age? Which is in fact not my true age?
The fact that you would put my maturity to be tied to a number speaks volumes about your character, not to mention your stance on manipulation.
Keep telling yourself that we are "asshats" because you are the ass-sombrero.
Why is it that Blitz can act like a civil human, but smoothie and cypherdoc act like asshats? Is this what happens when teenagers take to the forums?
Another deleted one. lol. He doesnt like me exposing what he says:
Isprice thread XRP manipulation so bad? They could hold a lot of XRP back and make it go up in value. This could make transactions and new accounts more expensive temporarily, but the validators will just vote to reduce the reserves and fees. So OpenCoin hoarding XRP does not affect users of the system very much.
Bolded above says a lot about said user.
Someone who doesn't think manipulation is so bad is because they are not on the losing end of the trade. Hence his comment.
Is
Bolded above says a lot about said user.
Someone who doesn't think manipulation is so bad is because they are not on the losing end of the trade. Hence his comment.
my own color on the situation added.
given he has deleted every post I've made in his thread...yup that too.
might as well spell them all out.
I get a really uneasy vibe from the overabundance of "It's ok bitcoiners, ripple is your frriiieeennnddd" posted all over their website and on this forum.
Another deleted one. lol. He doesnt like me exposing what he says:
Isprice thread XRP manipulation so bad? They could hold a lot of XRP back and make it go up in value. This could make transactions and new accounts more expensive temporarily, but the validators will just vote to reduce the reserves and fees. So OpenCoin hoarding XRP does not affect users of the system very much.
Bolded above says a lot about said user.
Someone who doesn't think manipulation is so bad is because they are not on the losing end of the trade. Hence his comment.
Is
Bolded above says a lot about said user.
Someone who doesn't think manipulation is so bad is because they are not on the losing end of the trade. Hence his comment.
my own color on the situation added.
given he has deleted every post I've made in his thread...yup that too.
might as well spell them all out.
I don't know, we haven't seen the performance of the internal Ripple market place yet under stress.
A fair point. It is still beta after all.
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However, Ripple does not solve natural monopolies and its side effects. As more gateways emerge, we will simply have a new MtGox everyone goes to for the liquidity (which is currently bitstamp, as opposed to weex).
Well that's not quite right. There will always be a "most popular gateway", where popularity is measured by the amount of funds on deposit. But since anyone can be a "liquidity provider", competition will create the situation where it doesn't much matter which gateway you deposit your funds at, or which order books you use to get your bitcoins.
A future version of the reference client will show order books that are a composite of multiple issuers, so when you buy Bitcoins using your USD balance your order can be filled from multiple exchanges at the same time.
Ripple's pathfinding algorithm already looks through multiple books today, so when you send a payment it doesn't matter which gateway the receiver trusts - all order books will be evaluated to find the cheapest conversions.
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OpenCoin is marketing XRP as nothing at all except a mechanism to prevent network spam by requiring XRP for accounts and transactions. Meanwhile, they plan to make profit with 30% of all Ripples because they know it would acquire value...this is my main problem with the "spin" and why I call it intellectually dishonest.
I think that's actually a fair point. For sure, Ripple could have been presented better. It's quite confusing as it is.
Perhaps you could contribute some improvements to the presentation and explanations?
Another deleted one. lol. He doesnt like me exposing what he says:
Isprice thread manipulation so bad? They could hold a lot of XRP back and make it go up in value. This could make transactions and new accounts more expensive temporarily, but the validators will just vote to reduce the reserves and fees. So OpenCoin hoarding XRP does not affect users of the system very much.
Bolded above says a lot about said user.
Someone who doesn't think manipulation is so bad is because they are not on the losing end of the trade. Hence his comment.
Is
Bolded above says a lot about said user.
Someone who doesn't think manipulation is so bad is because they are not on the losing end of the trade. Hence his comment.
my own color on the situation added.
given he has deleted every post I've made in his thread...yup that too.
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