Topic: The ultimate problem, where to go? (Read 199 times)

I don't believe op bought 900 BTC's in the early days as they said, however, if op has lost their recovery phrase, then there is no way they can recover their lost coins. Do not fall for scammers who claim that they can recover lost or stolen BTC, it is only a way to steal more coins from the victim and inflict more misery on them.

The value comes from the market, if you see bitcoin at $64,000 that mean the buy orders are under $64k while the sell orderers are over $64k, in the markets you will fined buy orders and sales orders, and some orders are in the extreme, you well find people trying to buy bitcoin for $1, or people trying to sell bitcoin for $1M, any one can decide where to place the orders, but if you want a fast trade then you must accept the current market price.

Some coins are lost, but not all of them are stored. And not all users have a hardware wallet. I would say a big part of them are stored in online wallets and exchanges, even if it's a terrible idea to do it.

1. It's answered already, from supply and demand.
2. The quick answer will be hardware wallets. If you don't have a plan to move it for a certain period of time, hardware wallets are safer. But if you're someone who knows more technically about keeping your bitcoins safe, it depends on how you use it. But we don't advise using exchanges as your long-term place to keep your bitcoins.
3. They're lost forever if no one has the private keys for those Bitcoins. That makes our Bitcoins scarcer and as satoshi said, treat them as donation to the community.

It's quite simple.

The value of Bitcoin has come from its Supply and Demand. Just like the US dollar, but Satoshi created a limited supply for Bitcoin, which proved to be very effective in creating value. Beside that Bitcoin's unique concept also forced people to invest. In other words, due to qualities like unmutability, decentralization, and limited supply (Scarcity), Bitcoin has created its value through its users.

Hmm, this point is very good. You did well to ask where it is better to store Bitcoin. 
 
Bitcoin is a valuable asset and thus malicious people are eager to get hold of it and rob you at the slightest mistake. So it is better to store Bitcoin in a hardware wallet instead of Exchange because Exchanges can also get hacked very easily and you can lose your funds in front of his eyes. So be careful with these kinds of things.

Anyway if you don't have any ideas about which wallet is best to stor Bitcoin, Here in this thread you can read about it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-open-source-hardware-wallets-5288971


Ohh that's sucky, mate !

It's making me really sad. But anyway sorry for that and if you don't mind can you share the occurrence with us of what really happened with you. Maybe someone can help you retrieve your lost Bitcoin.

Even if the government cracks down on wallet developers, you cannot lose your coins stored in your open source, self custodial wallet, if you own the keys, then you control the coins and you cannot lose custody of it, except you hand it over to someone else. However, i think the government is after privacy solutions and privacy enhancing wallets, i don't think they will go after wallets that do not enhance privacy.

The value comes from the demand and supply. The more demand there is while the supply is limited then the higher it's price will be and the less the demand while the supply is more then the lower it's price will be. The bitcoin is stored in a wallet or it can be stored in an exchange but it is not recommended to do so and it's much better if your bitcoin is stored in an open source wallet like electrum. Rhe safety of your wallet all depends on you about how you store the backup and keep it safe. The backup that I explained is the seed phrase which you can use to access the wallet.

Don’t make things very complicated for yourself. The main aim of crypto exchange is for trading, changing your crypto to fiat etc. Anything beyond this is risky and that is why it’s not advisable to leave your funds there if it is just for this purpose. The inability of you to get access to your seed phrase from the exchange is a sign that they can’t be dependable on and you can lose your funds at anything if anything goes wrong with the exchange in the future. Save your bitcoins in a wallet that you have access to a mnemonic seed phrase which you can access at anytime and the security of it is your hands ultimately.


Once your access right is lost, those bitcoins will never be accessible and you can only see them in the wallet as read only. This is the reason why you should keep your seed phrase safe and never allow it to be compromised by anyone because that’s given them full access to your funds which can be catered away by them. No one can keep your bitcoins safer than you, so hold it well.

That's not a very good example. Collectibles like antique coins are a very different kind of thing. They are valued only as collectibles, not for utility, because they have no utility - that's kinda the whole definition of a collectible, something whose value derives not from any utility but just from the desire of collecting enthusiasts. Meanwhile Bitcoin is a highly useful global digital currency. Bitcoin is valued for its utility and its scarcity, there is nothing "collectible" about it because its just a fungible digital currency so there is nothing to "collect" physically or digitally.

Yes probably like 98% of people resist the idea of Bitcoin. It is because it is a new and different thing from anything that has existed before and so people don't understand what it is. It'll be a long slow path of educating people on Bitcoin before they accept it as something useful and good.

You are missing the point.  Supply and demand influence value, thats true. But thats not the only factor.  There are also trust, security, and regulation that are crucial for any asset, especially a digital one.  Cryptocurrencies lack some of these fundamentals, making them highly volatile and risky.  Many people are cautious about investing in something so unstable and unregulated.  It is not just resistance to new things; it is somewhat a common sense as well. 


I can only speak in general terms here as each exchange may apply different security techniques and methods.  Storing a portion of user funds in independent wallets for each individual user is not a universal practice.  Exchanges typically maintain two types of wallets: hot and cold storage. A hot wallet holds a portion of user funds for quick deposits and withdrawals. The majority of user funds are stored in a cold wallet, which is offline and secured through measures like multi-signature wallets and offline key storage.  Exchanges frequently move funds between hot and cold wallets to facilitate user transactions, maintain liquidity, and manage risk.


Unfortunately, yes. Without the mnemonic phrase or wallet backup, recovering your bitcoins is highly unlikely.

1. The value/price of Bitcoin comes from demand and supply which applies to every product in this world not just some antiques and art works. People have their own priority so if they don't see Bitcoin as something valuable over the paper then it's their loss which I call as ignorance.

2.You're confusing with the wallet and addresses, you can derive as many address you want from one master seed and that's how exchange works.

3. Yep, if you lost your recovery seed and don't have any idea what it can be then it's lost forever.

1. DONT CONFUSE VALUE WITH PRICE
price is the temporary number that changes by the second dependant on the current market order that just fulfilled

value however is a underlying number that sits at the bottom which gets tested periodically as the support where no one will go below.

if you can work out all the costs of acquiring bitcoin on the planet periodically and find the cheapest acquisition cost on the planet where no one would then want to sell below.. thats the value support line no one wants to cross

the market PRICE will occassionally try to test this bottom value amount and if you look at the long term growth of these periodic bottoms that are tested you will see they climb up because there are other off-market economics that affect the increase in the periodic value bottom.. things like the increase in mining costs whereby it actually now costs (in post-halving 2024) about $50k now to mine a bitcoin in the global cheap/efficient low cost regions

so although bitcoins market price is wiggling around the $60k-$75k.. the value support bottom is roughly around $50k
in short.. we wont see $10k btc again unless the hashrate/difficult dropped by 5x due to some fatal event

The value of Bitcoin is determined by supply and demand. Because the number of Bitcoins is limited to 21 million, when the number of Bitcoins in circulation is very large, approaching the total number, the determination of the value of Bitcoin as a digital currency can be due to scarcity and cannot be counterfeited, such as increasing the number or reducing the number.

Why is the value of Bitcoin associated with the law of supply and demand? It can be found in many articles because I am also not very good at explaining to you to avoid mistakes that can have a bad impact on me.
Bitcoin is a currency that can survive in the long term that cannot be controlled by third parties.
Why does every fiat currency experience a decrease in value? Well, from this answer, it will later provide another space to find why Bitcoin can be a solution.

This doesn't have a single answer. Bitcoin price is as a result of Many factors which include decentralisation and adoption. Bitcoin has been around since 2009 making it the first crypto currency and infact it brought about a breakthrough in digital transactions before the era of these altcoins and mem e coins. Aside from that bitcoin has also proven to be a very good store for value making it easy to combat inflation.

Huge amount of coins most times are split into about two or three address and stored in cold wallets on air gapped devices. Hot wallets are too vulnerable to hold certain amounts of bitcoin.

If the private keys or seed phrase are lost forever , yes the coins are lost too

the determinant factor that control the value of bitcoin is still very unknown which is why bitcoin is considered to be a volitile asset, and what decide the value of such volitility is the demands for such an asset, take for example gold, it value doesn't come from any physical usage but still yet it have high demands for ages same it is with bitcoin and other digital assets, the fact that cryptocurrency value is based on speculations, that makes it easy for long term holders to be able to extimate they potential gains, this have been tested over the years.

And since bitcoin give it holder's full control over their money which is why it is important for every bitcoin holder to have a secured bitcoin wallet that only them and trusted ones have access to such wallet, and for that centralised excahges should be viewed as just cryptocurrency centralised banks, and if you bitcoin are on excahges you should know that you don't have full control over such funds and if anything goes wrong, your money could be freeze at anytime.

There are many reasons why Bitcoin is not in every home. For example, many countries have very strict regulations regarding cryptocurrencies, in many it is even completely prohibited. Not everyone has to be interested in it, it is even recommended for those who do not understand some basics of Bitcoin, and blockchain not to enter it until they learn at least the basics.
By the way, every person in the world knows about gold and that it has value, but again, the vast majority do not keep their assets in gold. And that has little to do with any resistance.

I would not comment much on how exchanges store coins, as far as I know, they have hot and cold wallets. Again, as I said earlier, exchanges are not intended for storing coins, but for trading. This is my final answer to all your doubts, if you are thinking about a wallet where you will hold assets, no exchange is good enough for that.
Not to mention a hack as a potential risk, almost every exchange has faced it at least once, look at the case of FTX exchange, which went bankrupt and of course left with all the funds of its users.

Sorry to hear that. I suggest you present the whole problem here, do you have any wallet file or something, I am sure you will get the best advice, and maybe you will get lucky with access to coins.
Without access to the wallet (whether you or someone else), your 900 BTC will be there forever.

The market is open for people to see. There is demand and supply and just by looking at the orders, it says about the price. There is no authority that will dictate the price but the market but its somehow manipulated or when people panic because of the threats of economic collapse people sell and this brings the price down.

Hard wallet is safer.  Things could change when the government will be cracking down on wallet developers. I saw a thread about this so just be updated on the news.
BTC that is lost and the owner loses its private keys then it's lost forever.

The point you made is very interesting. Indeed, the success of Bitcoin depends not only on the behavior of market participants, but also on its unique supply mechanism. Moreover, I think that over time, after the total supply of Bitcoin reaches 21 million, the value of Bitcoin will be more like a collection value. This non-renewable feature makes it have the characteristics of digital gold to a certain extent.

Thank you very much for your reply.
1. Supply and demand are the determining factors of value. I understand that this is like collecting an antique coin with a long history. As long as someone has a great desire to collect the coin, the value of the acquisition represents the value of the coin. But why is it that now, when cryptocurrency has gradually been widely known by many people and applied to life, there are still so many people who are resisted? Is this an intolerance or resistance to new things?
2. The essence of the exchange should be to store part of the user's funds in an independent wallet of the exchange, for example, 1% of the user's funds are fully stored in an independent wallet, and each user is configured with a receiving address to distinguish different accounts. Is this so? If so, how does the exchange ensure the security of funds in independent wallets?
3. Yes, my access rights were lost. I bought nearly 900 bitcoins in the early days, but the mnemonic of the wallet could not be retrieved for login. Secondly, for these bitcoins with lost access rights, will they never be accessible?

Whether Bitcoin is successful or not is up to us, i mean every single person. Of course, many large companies are now involved, but none of them can fix the price, it remains variable. Nobody can increase the amount of Bitcoin, they are not reprinted on paper, like the ECB does with the euro. So at the moment new Bitcoin is being mined, but that will end in about the year 2140. So by "we" I mean people and if everyone understood that, the price of Bitcoin would be much higher. If people want to be more independent, then they need bitcoin.

1. As with everything, it's a matter of supply and demand. Greater demand causes an increase in value and vice versa. Sometimes certain news directly related to Bitcoin can significantly affect the price movement
2. No option offers 100% safety. Depending on the needs, different wallets are more or less suitable. Certainly, those that do not offer control over private keys should be avoided. Hardware wallets are currently one of the most secure options for sure. Exchanges are not wallets and are not used for storing crypto, but only for trading.
3. The question is what exactly do you mean by "lost" Bitcoin? If you just lost the wallet file or forgot the seed phrase or password of the wallet, Bitcoins are not lost, but your access to them is lost. Bitcoin transactions are not reversible, once a coin has been sent it cannot be returned.