Topic: The US government is targeting mixers. Are BTC mixers next? - page 3. (Read 980 times)

Tbh, I always think BTC mixer service was a honey pot for certain alphabet agencies to lure in criminals. Some mixers might have a long history, haven't got burst yet or running with people's money so everyone trusts and uses it. Tho if I have to dilute my flow of BTC as much as I can, CEX/DEX with false KYC might be used with the mixer to mudding the BTC's trail further.

Nice try, what did i advertise?

You dont understand that most newbies are already on a watchlist trough kyc. All their funds can be tied to their real identities. So whats their choice? Either they sell them all and acquire them again on a dex or theiy try to break the kyc trough other methods. Youre completely ignoring the problem/ surveillance that Big Brother is starting to introduce. Does it sound like a good future where most funds could potentially be linked to real identites and all services have blacklists and taint controls built-in? Dont you see any tyranny and abuse potential here? If you had the possibility to acquire a huge stash before this nonsense, it might not matter to you, because you can still selectively reveal which funds you send trough this process. But for others it will, when its all their wealth that will be fully traceable on one ledger with spend restrictions being enforced. The problem is people starting to introduce tyranny and youre defending this nonsense, not Bitcoin. The simple solution is to treat each coin the same, and youre saying the solution is to comply to tyranny and surveillance to stay under the radar. Youre the perfect example for that it could be a lost hope to try to make people cooperate on privacy and that you literally have to take the ability for discrimination away, so they will stop doing it. Youre making the case for protocol level changes by your own actions, if you didnt get it yet. If people simply wake up and take enough responsibility and agree to that its necessary for society to treat each unit of a currency the same no matter what, to achieve a free and prosperous society, none of this is necessary. Adult life and kindergarten is not that different it seems.


No one blamed bitcoin. Stop reflecting bs that only exists in your head onto other people.

Judging from the tweet, I would agree that it seems the US authorities want to take cryptomixers down. They can only shut them down if a company is registered in the US, though, right? Or to forbid it from reaching US customers. But if it's registered and operates elsewhere, I don't think the US has the jurisdiction to intervene. To be honest, crypto mixers do seem like the shadiest thing on the crypto market because they are literally doing what money laundering is. And while some might be using them for privacy concerns and without actually laundering illegal money, I donit know if it's actually a common thing to do. I've personally never used a mixer.

i gotta laugh

your "The freedom to transact is one major component of freedom" you pretend to promote.. but then you advertise a middle man service where people have to lock their value into a service to appear like its the only way people should transact...
.. sorry thats not freedom

you and your dozen buddies that say the same crap and run the same PR campaigns try to tell everyone their 'freedom' involves locking funds up with with middlemen mixers or with channel parties on another network.. sorry thats not freedom.

bitcoin is not the problem..
middlemen services and things requiring locking value up with partners/custodians and altnets channels is the problem

bitcoin does not ask for your name. bitcoin does not ask for an invoice of goods list.
(funny part is that LN actually does have a invoicing system)

imagine there are 2 people both depositing 0.1btc into an exchange
a.  bc1qU53r1 0.1 -> 1ch1pm1x3r 0.1 ->bc1qU53rxx 0.1 (user45)
   bc1qU53r45 0.1 -> 1ch1pm1x3r 0.1 ->bc1qU53ryy 0.1 (user1) -> bc1q3xch4n63 0.1

b. bc1qU53r2 0.1 ->  bc1q3xch4n63 0.1

guess who is going to get a suspicion flag
guess who then has to answer more questions and prove the source of funds
answer to both is user1 (a)

meanwhile the exchange does not know what user2(b) bought. and is not asked to tell them what they bought or prove the funds were from a legit source. exchanges wont have user2(b) on a watch list or be investigating them or asking them and deep questions per transaction, they are just another random user doing whatever daytrade they want without headaches

again bitcoin has never asked people to list their name or goods purchase list.

so do you get it yet
if exchanges are freezing your account. asking you to prove the source of your funds
dont blame bitcoin. blame your use of shady services that caused you to have a suspicion rating due to your suspicious activities

the solution to 'getting suspicion flags' because of your suspicious activities is not to promote more suspicious services people have to use. and definitely not to scare normal people into joining these suspicious services

so stop trying to recruit people into your shady services. which will cause them to have to then reveal more info to exchanges purely because they used your shady service that is falsely promoted as 'helping preserve privacy' when actual reality is the opposite

mixers promote highlighting and adding people to watchlists. mixers promote having accounts frozen and investigations being done. mixers promote exchanges sharing info to see where else you transact and what other businesses you use.

It doesn’t matter, if centrally controlled currencies had it or not. The freedom to transact is one major component of freedom. Economically speaking it’s the only sane way to handle money too.

Let’s keep listening to regulators about what is good for prosperity and freedom, while both are eroding worldwide for more and more people. If you open the door to taint, you open the door to tyranny. The possibilities are endless for abuse. It needs to be fought right from the start, not when it’s too late. It doesn’t matter what reasons are brought up for it, because the result will be the same in the end.

People are. For the 1000th time. The only person saying this is you, that’s the irony.

You’re the one defending and cheering on for people that have no clue how Bitcoin works, but try to weaken it trough useless bs regulations.


It
Doesn’t
Matter.

The point is that you’re already under surveillance, you don’t have any privacy. Your identity is always revealed by using kyc services, therefore you had no privacy in the first place. No matter how well you read the guidelines and fly under the radar, everything is archived. Every step can be held against you, while innocent and you would need to prove you’re not guilty. If barely anyone cooperates on privacy, we won’t have it. It’s that simple. If adults want to devolve to kids and control every step their fellows make, the only way choice left could be taking the ability to separate between coins away. You probably still don’t understand why these behaviours and practices are a problem for everyone, not just the users you try to shun for wanting privacy.


You sit back and have a black coffee.

The question is whether they wanted to destroy Bitcoin at all, and it seems to me that they knew that it was impossible, so they went in another direction. As you say, there should be no doubt that they knocked on the doors of many CEX and that they got a back entrance to use all the data they need.


There is some truth in what you are saying, but maybe the goal was to convince us that they did not succeed, but I think that they are much more powerful today than they were 10 years ago, that is, that they have much better tools for analysis and supervision. If mixers were as powerful as someone thinks, then terrorism would flourish, and the entire force would be devoted to finding and destroying such services.

Some may remember -> Breaking Mixing Services

I am preparing for that future. I am not going to be caught with a significant part of my net worth in undeclared Bitcoin, having gone through mixers, etc., which could be blacklisted or whatever.

Here we are talking about mixers, but there is another area where there is a certain freedom, namely casinos, which will not last long in the current situation.

Crypto casinos were very important in the history of Bitcoin from the beginning, but over the years they have been imposing more and more KYC requirements, and this is only going to get worse.

It's not going to be tomorrow, but I think in a couple of years or three at most we're going to see major changes in this regard.

The difference is that you can't launder money through banks. Corruption and money laundering exist guys but it's only for elites and these elites see that average joes have the possibility to launder money too because of bitcoin mixers, so, they want to prevent it and keep it on elite levels.
Did you commit crime? Hire the best lawyers and with fines, you'll escape. Average Joe can't hire the best lawyer and can't pay fines, I think that answer is clear now.

When you see these millionaires and billionaires, do you think that they were reading a bunch of books and studied enormously well in universities? Or do you think that they are into criminal schemes? The western world is very corrupt but corruption exists for elites, not for average joes.

We live in an era when the control of people is on another level, so a crackdown on mixers is inevitable.

Why not develop this logic further? According to you, bitcoin mixers are just a tool to make dirty money cleaner, but what about money itself? Bitcoin is clearly a means of exchange, a means to transfer value across borders, and this value inevitably should include "illegal" things. If bitcoin hadn't been invented or "discovered", bitcoin laundering tools such as mixers wouldn't have existed, and everyone would have been living in a crimeless world. But it is now obvious to us all that we have lost this opportunity to live in a world of love and happiness because evil genius Satoshi Nakamoto created a criminal-friendly currency that is outside of the reach of governments. I'm surprised those governments haven't yet shut down this forum and put all its users in jail for promoting and glorification of criminal currency. I'm a bit surprised they've been allowed to glorify this thingy for so long.

Yeah, but here's the thing:

They failed at destroying the bitcoin network, despite all the doom and gloom that the NSA report liked by Investopedia appears to imply. Why? Because you have to somehow track an address - and the only way you can do that is by knocking on an exchange's door, since full nodes don't leak anything in their traffic.

Instead of getting destroyed the network only became stronger and more resilient. I wonder if BTC tracking is still their "#1 priority" now that there are a horde of anon coins and mixers that have more "threatening" capabilities to them.

It implies that the NSA can collect [meta]data (see XKeyScore, PRISM), but is unable to do much meaningful stuff with it except for perhaps chasing down one, two, or three people at a time.

Against a swarm? They can do nothing about it - provided that it is actively progressing forward.

This is nothing shocking to me. As they are unable to generate taxes from cryptos, how would they make money?

as far that i know that btc mixer already been targeted we can take example of chipmixer that no longer have Public app available you know about Julian assange, Edward Snowden offcourse you well know about gov right they dont pretty like about "privacy"

Absolutely on point. Even though I understand all the liberal voices and I am one myself, there is no point in pursuing or using a system that leads people (both good and bad ones) into a deadlock. Once the regulations in the EU come into action, for instance, you can't transfer from a privately owned crypto address to an exchange for cash out / trading anymore IF the address itself doesn't undergo KYC upon deposit. Once you do the KYC and it then becomes evident you have been using a mixer, well, have fun getting that sorted out with (financial) authorities. I am sure there would be a wave of frozen funds that puts the nail in the coffin for mixing services anyway.

Edit:


Lol! Good one! I clicked several times on "fascist1" to get insight into the original post. It took me three times to realize what you actually did here @DooMad!

Going to keep that one in mind

@franky1

Why would no currency anywhere in the world has ever had fungibility? What part am I missing here?

This reminds of the discussion whether something is decentralized or not. People argue that it is always either or. But decentralization is a spectrum. It is not either or. You could always argue in favor of both ends of the spectrum when it comes to Bitcoin, for instance. Saying that fiat is non-fungible fits into the same category in my opinion. There might certainly be aspects that speak against "perfect fungibility". At the same time there are a ton of aspects that speak against "perfect non-fungibility". In that case your point is at least one-sided, if not insufficiently rational. If fiat was perfectly non-fungible, the world would still be looking quite different, and Bitcoin would probably not exist (if it was perfectly non-fungible).  

There isn't a single person on this forum who utters those words more than you do.  Every time someone dares to have an independent thought in their head that doesn't tally up with your authoritarian headcase-ery, you suddenly act like they think Bitcoin is broken.  Just because people choose to supplement Bitcoin with other things, does not mean we think it's broken.  Some ingredients work great on their own, but that doesn't mean people can't combine ingredients together if it suits their tastes.  You don't get to dictate how and when people can combine Bitcoin with other things, you totalitarian faecal blemish. 



You're the one attempting (and failing) to hold Bitcoin to a standard that no longer exists.  Tell us again how Bitcoin now has "fake consensus" and how you'd ban softforks if it were up to you.  Or, better yet, don't, because we must have heard it a hundred times already.   

The only broken thing around here is your fractured psyche.



Even if that were the case, and I'm not convinced it is, it still isn't your place to tell us we can't build things to enhance fungibility.  No one is forcing you to use them.  It's not a threat to you.  Therefore, it's none of your business.  So shut the hell up and let people do what they want.

yawn yawn yawn

no currency anywhere in the world has ever had fungibility. its the myth of 'trust'
fiat is not fungible. there are many many laws made to treat fiat differently for different purposes and handled by different people,

pretending bitcoin is broke because it doesnt meet some mythical standard. is the exact excuse the dozen idiots cry as their pretense of wanting to break bitcoins good money principles of its coin creation rules and accounting system. all so that later they can ultimately dismantle bitcoin for any use, and then proclaim their altnet as the winner and thing people should use instead(for their greedy intentions)
wake up to the game being played

they want your (possibly an innocent user, if they have not fully converted you yet) to become shady and earn yourself some suspicion rating to then point fingers and say 'look we told you so, the gov are now tracking you'

again by using a mixer even if you previously didnt need it now puts you on the watch list. they want everyone on the watchlist. hoping that regulators give up watching due to having everyone on it.. (hiding in the crowd of criminals by having everyone treated as a criminal, thus hoping to not get caught themselves because now innocent people are suspects too..
its not an original or new game. but that game has failed in all currencies it was tried in history



people that use mixers, then get their funds flagged which then gets them stuck in the minutia of KYC and SAR investigations, which they then cry about being attacked by SAR reports and investigations.. not realising its their own actions that put them onto watch lists.

there are thousands of people that just use bitcoin for bitcoin. not using mixers. and they dont get their funds flagged when using exchanges.
bitcoin does not contain "extra data" about ID or items purchased. so again bitcoin is not breaking privacy.
its the fools that then separately reveal info about themselves

EG pasting their addresses on forums, telling people on forums what they bought. all that stuff is not privacy preserving factors

ive never been on a watch list. because i bother to read exchanges policies handbooks they produce. i read their policies and rules and terms and conditions and i find out whats acceptable and not and then avoid the stuff that will get me flagged/watched

yep. coinbase doesnt run investigations on everyone. however if your flagged as suspicious. then they share that data with dozens of other exchanges and merchant tools their sister company owns. and suddenly your data is everywhere..
by avoiding the things that flag you as suspect you wont get investigated.. its that simple. your data wont be spread out. its that simple
bitcoin in any old or new form does not change those rules. because the rules of sharing data is not about blockchain its about the public data you give to services or publish elsewhere which they can gather.


and guess what.
for the (lost count now) Xth time of saying this.. using mixers and privacy tools wont hide you. it infact gets you noticed
so how about you(another member of team ignorance and LN/mixer advert adoration brigade) take your head out of their sand. and do some independent research, stop relying on the hugs and kisses of your small little group of pals who pat you on the back for toeing your party bus mantra. do some research for yourself to take care of your funds (because they are not going to insure them). look after yourself and do whats right for you. by learning what will and what wont get you put onto a watch list.

the little buddy group of the same dozen people pushing hard to advertise their schemes will not protect your coins. their interest is duping people into handing their coins over to them so they can hand their coins off .. their motives are selfish not selfless.
their promises and promotions are not what they seem and they cry when their schemes are called out.

so do your own research and realise mixers will not hide you. they will infact reveal you more then you want

if you cant grasp this very basic concept then let me say this once more
mixers will not hide you. they will infact reveal you more then you want

now sit back have a cup of coffee and let that fact soak in

People simply doing legit transactions using privacy services, franky:

Do you start to get the notion that its people themselves that cant handle transparency and try to separate between coins for unproven accusations? The only consideration to build privacy by default is because fools like you literally cant handle it, to simply treat each coin equally. Its so simple, but youre starting to make voodoo out of which coins to accept and which not. We have adults fighting over which money to accept and claiming that censorship and surveillance is beneficial. Are we in a kindergarten?

franky1 to me seems to be the stereotypical forum contrarian personality type.

Every forum has at least one famous contrarian...

i am not anti-privacy..
i am the one telling you fools that by using mixers you are making yourself be put onto watch lists, thus losing the privacy you pretend to want

grow up. read some laws and business policies and actually learn proper ways to stay private that dont involve you advertising some middle man service and dont involve pretending bitcoin is broke to then sell an idea to actually break bitcoin for your selfish motives
...

satoshi has made transactions before. its all public.. but he has not been found. and yes he done address re-use too
12 years and no one has found him. he had no need of mixers or altnets to hide his tracks

i have done hundreds to thousands of transactions. in the last 10 years and guess what no ones found me
ive never used mixers and never intend to..
in fact there was a competition a few months  back where i received a prize from a mixer and guess what im not gonna touch those coins because now those coins are deemed as suspicious due to coming from a mixer, so i dont intend to spend them
because putting coins in from a mixer is a sure fire way to get noticed by exchanges suspicious activity flags.  

i am not going to compromise my privacy due to having the stupid mixed coins associated to me.

so grow up read some laws and polieis and learn how to actually remain under the radar of exchanges policies and watchlists.
..
no currency requires fungibility to be 'good money' even fiat is not fungible

taking funds out of an exchange in fiat is treated differently (cap gains) than taking fiat from an employer(income tax)
taking $10k across the border is treated differently that putting $10k down as a deposit for a house

there are 'proceeds of crime' laws accessory to a crime lays. money laundering laws
if fiat was fungible there would be no need to launder. but they do laundering because fiat is not fungible.

so stop pretending bitcoin need to break its accounting system that breaks it a store of value proposition, just to hide your shady deals

if you want to be shady. go use an altcoin


again it needs to be said as your group seems to ignore.
bitcoins main feature of provable origins right back to its coin reward creation is the very fact that bitcoin is good money. because it proves no one can counterfeit it and cant just add more coins to the supply at a whim

i know you lot want to break those rules. dont play coy.. you are not that subtle

bitcoins blockchain does not store details of how much drugs or sex dolls you bought.
you will not find one transaction that reveals what you have purchased.
so grow up pretending bitcoin reveals peoples purchase details down to how many cocksocks they bought at the same time as the sex doll.. bitcoin does not reveal or request that info
oh funny part. LN invoices has a data field where people can note down purchase details. and LN hasa explorer site revealing all the retailers and merchants channels.. so yea LN promoted as a privacy tool.. is not as private as promoted.
but shhhh i said too much



ok show me on the blockchain. any transaction you can find from anyone that says that the transaction was used to buy...
alpaca socks. bitcoin cupcakes(things that were around before people cared about mixers)
i guarantee you no blockchain data will show you this.

the blockchain is not the problem and so the blockchain is not broke

the very fact that you openly just posted one of your wage receipts addresses reveals you dont care about your own privacy. because yep.. the way people start to associate funds to people is when people offer up their info publicly. like you just did.
you also could have donated more then a dolar to tor project if you really cared that much

like i said before
have you ever realised your loyal kings you idolise, you know the developers of blockstream brink and chaincode labs. all funded by DCG. you know the ones that made LN and liquid and done segwit for you..
the devs of blockstream that helped make code for moneros cofidential payments system, yep they also work for .. the company that owns chain analysis
yep they own chain analysis

so why cry to me about your hate of chain analysis and exchanges that share data.. when it is your own idols you treat as kings that are the ones doing the things you pretend to hate

if you really do hate chain analysis and coinbase's policies.. go talk to your idols. they are colleagues of them
https://dcg.co/portfolio/#c

or has all your ass kissing and showing loyalty not earned you any respect by them to even listen to your cries

..
back to the point..
you silly fools only care about pretending that bitcoin by itself is broke and people need to go use middlemen services and need to partner/member up with others to swap coins even if they dont need to..
the only reason why.. is because you malicious people doing dirty things cant just swap between yourselves because dirty mixing with dirty just leaves more dirt.

you want naive guys that dont break laws and dont buy drugs or sell drugs to hand over their coins that are not tainted. so that you can have their coins and you can hand them your coins

99% of people are not malicious like you lot so we dont need to use your services.
so go play with yourselves on your altnets. and stop trying to dupe other people into partnering up with you

your games are not subtle nor original.

..
i am on no watchlist, i am not being investigated. i have not had my coins taint pushed forward in an SAR report to authorities. because .. yep i dont do shady suspicious crap
so stop pretending that everyone in bitcoin needs to do shady crap in a failed attempt that if everyone looks shady then it protects your shady activities by hiding everyone in a shadow of everyone appearing suspicious.

that game wont make regulators stop and give up
take a lesson from reality and not your groups utopian dreams

think for once. do the research and learn a few things

I wonder how the Elites are going to buy drugs & hookers, assuming they shut down all the loopholes in the system. With CBDCs? Yeah, right!

Only socialist fools believe that you can change human nature. Not gonna happen, sorry. Accept human nature with its flaws and vices.

So, when crackdown for commercial banks, which at the moment we're talking are responsible for the money laundering of the century?

https://medium.com/kyc-io-scalable-kyc-management-solutions/the-5-largest-money-laundering-scandals-of-all-time-so-far-d30ff4abee10
https://medium.com/technicity/big-banks-are-at-the-front-center-of-money-laundering-of-over-2-trillion-299feea4c58e
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bank-scandal-2020-2-trillion-transaction-suspected-illegal-activity-money-laundering/
https://qz.com/938504/the-top-50-global-banks-allegedly-involved-in-the-20-8-billion-russian-laundromat-money-laundering-scheme/

(That's just from a quick search)

Such a clown user; wanting to shut down privacy enhancing tools, because a minority (or majority, couldn't care less) uses it to launder money. Completely opposed to the freedom and privacy parts of bitcoin, and he's paradoxically been here since the early days.