Topic: The vaccination issue is not bipolar - page 2. (Read 440 times)

https://nbc-2.com/news/2020/08/31/cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-u-s-had-contributing-conditions/

It's hard to argue that corp/gov tried any less hard to depserately keep the plandemic panic going since that time, so going with a 95%-ish number would produce a workable estimator for order-of-mag work.  And, due to the figures you snipped, even if you are going to take corp/gov estimates at face value, the number changes from 0.00002 to 0.0002 and the arg remains the same.


I live in a certain English speaking SE Asian country, and the tricks they pull to pad the numbers are completely shameless.  There are fewer people here with the sophistication to spot the fraud so it seems, or if they do, they tend to keep their mouths shut about it.  Reminds me of the American War in Vietnam where someone tallied up the number of 'dinks' killed while 'our boys' were out on patrol, and it exceeded the population of the country.

I don't trust the data and definitions 'ourworldindata' uses.  They have all this 'sustainability' crap meaning they are great-reset fruadsters, and the funding demonstrates this too.


To we who study this stuff, these are exactly the people implementing and funding the plandemic in order to usher in the Great Reset or 'Fourth Industrial Revolution.'  It's the same people who got their positions of unimaginable wealth and power during the last few monetary systems, and they want to hold onto what they got, or preferably use the monetary system collapse to get a lot more.  Classic 'order out of chaos'.  These 'altruistic foundations' are just their ways of enjoying their hobbies (usually eugenics) tax-free.

The web entity is probably partially about data fishing on user actions to a degree, and the graphs that are generated are usually incomplete and skewed by the algorithms (or simply crappy coding at best.)

I appreciate that, unlike some anti-vaxxers, you do attempt to present a decent argument. However the problem here is that you are making a statement that is entirely unsupported by evidence. Do you just pull '96%' out of the air?
Regardless of official reason for death, it is quite clear from data made available from around the world (not just a single source), that there has been a huge increase in deaths from any reason recently, and that this coincides exactly with the Covid pandemic. We can't attribute this to motorcycles or to something strange happening in hospices.


https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=table

Something like 96% of the U.S. figures died of something like massive head trauma from a motorcycle accident, or a corpse from the hospice system which was tested positive in after-death PCR tests.  Tests which are themselves designed to give false positives and not fixed in almost 2 years now.

So, by order-of-magnitude sanity-checking, (4.5x10^6/.04) X 8x10^9 is around 0.0000225 or 0.002% of the worlds population succumbed to the 'deadliest pandemic in a century' in the last couple years.  And that's even before correcting for a lot of the obvious fraud.

See; even the official number pumped out by the perps don't make anything to panic about.  It also aligns well with what I am seeing.  Basically nobody I know has had any 'covid-19' problems in over a year, but around 20 people I know of within a couple degrees word of mouth have died within a week of the injection.

Again, please take note that anyone who dies within about 5 or 6 weeks from the injection will be labeled 'unvaccinated' in most places.  Also, in at least some places, people who die three or more months after their last injection.  We only know this because the criteria for labeling was accidentally leaked to the public.  It's since been memory-holed, but sharp people back up information like this when they spot it, and it's still not an smooth path to get things deleted off archive.org (but it is happening more and more...starting right after I made the mistake of making a relatively significant donation to them...Arg!)

Pro: 4.5 million people have died from Covid so far. A vaccine might be a good idea.



We are not talking about an individual paper or data report here. There are huge, independent datasets from most countries in the world. And not just from governments, but also from universities and professional bodies. Do you really think this is all fake? Why would it be?



This question makes me angry. I'm unable to respond without detailing how I feel about anti-vaxxers and their behaviour, which would create a lot of tension in this thread, and likely end the discussion.



Politicians will likely try to exploit any situation to their own advantage. Doesn't mean the underlying situation isn't real.



Which data are you basing this opinion on?



Well, that's conclusive evidence, thanks. I've changed my position entirely as a result of your devastatingly insightful and painstakingly detailed arguments. 

I want to say, that it is not true that generic immunity do not help for covid. The fact that some people died for covid doesn't mean that we should spend lots of money to vaccination for everybody, exactly like in the case of flu vaccines. There should be consideration of pros and cons.


How can you know that science data is not fake? It happened lots of time in history, that science data was custom-made for political purpose. I worked ten years in public university, science is funded exclusively on the basis of nepotism. I don't want to say that the situation is everywhere the same, I just wondering, why politicians in our country still have to lie and scare, when they have clear science data to persuade people rationally.


So you are going above the scope of restrictions. Don't you mind that these restrictions caused collapsed economy? Don't you feel little bit guilty that you participate to cropper bussiness of some people?


I am not anti-waxxer in general. I am just actual situation anti-waxer, because of:

• politicians abused whole covid situation to tighten their power over people;
• politicians abused whole covid situation to steal public money;
• I don't think covid vaccine will help (much), just like in case of flu;
• covid vaccine is not well tested compared to other vaccine, testers should get paid for this;
• covid is not so deadly big deal, making expensive show is not worth of it.

Yeah, Good for people living in rich country but very bad for those 3rd world country that continuously buying this vaccine and just following what leader country move. Virus are already mutating in different variant right now so this vaccine will just make things work in the long run if people don't develop antibodies to kill this virus.

I agree on @Jetcash suggestion btw, with some minor addition like social distancing in public.

Lol Masks work, eh? Document this https://www.bitchute.com/video/rlWESmrijl8Q/.

Then document the dozens of of videos here https://www.bitchute.com/channel/okiFK5CwQrZS/ that show what's really going on with masks.

And if you want to see the danger of masks... https://www.bitchute.com/video/ypLjmXQoLygi/.

Always blows my mind that people don't realize that the greatest threat to safeyty are the people who promise safety.

This discussion point started on Jet Cash's assertion that vaccination was unnecessary. You are saying that some people have been exposed to Covid, and yet experienced no symptoms. Yes, agreed. You are also saying that many people have died from Covid. Yes, agreed. So why is vaccination unnecessary?



The vast collection of data from ourworldindata is available for download here: https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/tree/master/public/data
The list of sources is available here: https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19

It is not a question of faith in politicians. I have zero faith in politicians, and I don't trust our government at all. My background and expertise is in science and data. I look at the data.



I started working from home and taking distancing precautions whilst our government (UK) was still insisting Covid wouldn't be a problem. The data from Italy and Spain were clear, yet the fools in charge don't understand (or willfully misunderstand) the data.
Similarly I still wear a mask when I'm out, but our government have said they're no longer needed.
It is not a question of pro-vaxxers blindly trusting government.

Is your issue with the Covid vaccines in particular, or with the concept of vaccination in general? Historical data for smallpox and polio as two examples from many, are perfectly clear.

Many people died, but many people also hasn't any symptoms. Isn't it because of this general immunity?



What is the data supporting pro-waxers arguments? Those data comes from people directly motivated by finance income. Is those data reliable? Lets say it directly: politicians lied to us lots of time, how can I trust to them? So pro-vaxxers arguments are based on faith, that politicians do not lie.

To the last sentence. The gov restrictions has some negative effects (individual psychological condition, economy, education, individual bussiness, employment...). I thing (based on your argumentation), that pro-waxxers (or generally pro-gov-restrictions people) contribute to these issues by obeying government. Isn't they?

General innate immunity doesn't make you invincible. Many people have died from Covid. The way to achieve immunity to Covid is either catch it, or take the vaccine. There isn't a third option.



I should have been clearer. I meant specifically in response to Jet Cash's argument that wearing a mask is counterproductive, and that no-one should wear masks. You are of course correct that sometimes people cannot wear masks for medical (including psychological) reasons.



Apologies, I either didn't see it, or else was too focused on responding to someone else. As for blaming anti-vaxxers, I have yet to see valid data to support their arguments, whereas there are mountains of data to refute them conclusively. Whilst Jet Cash is right that people are different, and certainly anti-vaxxers aren't all the same, many anti-vaxxer arguments are faith-based rather than fact-based. Their position is in direct opposition to all the evidence. I'm not sure what you mean in your second point "don't agree with contribution of pro-waxers to other issues conjuctive with covid restrictions" - please could you clarify?

For the overwhelming majority of people, they should get the Covid vaccine (and most other vaccines). But it should be their choice to do so. Government mandates are wrong and are not going to convince many people to get the vaccine.

In order to increase confidence in the vaccine, the costs (potential side effects and their prevalence) should be clearly disclosed, along with the chances of preventing various types of instances of the disease it is preventing, and the potential negative outcomes for people who are unvaccinated and catch the disease it is preventing. This information can be customized for an individual’s specific condition. For almost everyone, the above information will indicate the person should get the vaccine, but again the individual should be the one to decide.

For Covid specifically, if you don’t get the vaccine, you are almost certainly going to get Covid.

The description of how vaccines work in the OP is incorrect.

in short: you afraid of the injection.

No, doctors don't say it will lower your immunity. Maybe some weird blog becarefulpatriots.com says that.

WHO recommends that everyone get vaccinated. They're scientists, science works with consensus, based on studies. You don't choose to believe the doctor you like the most. This is opinion, not science.

There may be contraindications for a few people, very few. But basically those who refuse to be vaccinated harm the collective; selfish people who just don't care and put their fears above everyone else, sadly.

Of course that natural immunity exists - there is general non-specific immunity, which is used against new viruses. If something like this wouldn't exists, every new virus will exterminate whole mankind.



Of course there are many reasons. I have some specific medical issues, which gets much worse in wet environment and wearing masks get it worse. Psychological problems exists too (these are medical issues too). Wearing mask for a long time is not natural, because people just had to breath...

I wrote a post to you in another topic, but you didn't answer. Why do you blame anti-waxers, but don't agree with contribution of pro-waxers to other issues conjuctive with covid restrictions?

Agreed. Someone who sees things in shades of grey rather than black or white generally has a more considered perspective.


Yes, I don't think this is in dispute.


Well, not really. Your route to natural immunity is to catch the virus. If the virus can be fatal, it is preferable to take a safe, proven vaccine. Quite apart from the fact that if you catch the virus, you can spread it to others.


But if it's not proven, then it's simply belief, which may be flawed.


It's not suitable for everyone. This is why there are screening questions. Even so, there is I suppose in theory a very small chance that you have an undiagnosed pre-existing condition, which means you're not suitable. In such instances the vaccine can cause problems... but it's highly likely that for such a person catching Covid would have caused more severe problems.


They have been, they are. It's understandable that the vaccines are released quickly given a global pandemic, but they have still completed the standard trials process, and data are available.


The people administering the vaccine must be properly trained, yes. Not least so that they accurately identify those who shouldn't take the vaccine.

People don't seem to be addressing the main point of this thread. It is that there are not just two positions - vaccination or vaccination opposition. Measles, mumps and other diseases are referenced, but nobody points out that medical opinion states that vaccination is not required if a person has recovered from a prior infection. It admits that natural immunity is as good, or better, than vaccination. Covid is the first disease that is being promoted by governments in contradiction of this fact. I genuinely believe that I have strong natural immunity, and because of my lifestyle and age, I cannot afford to risk vaccination which research indicates that it will reduce my immunity, and will expose me to short and long term health risks. I'm not anti-vax, but I believe that vaccines should be tested comprehensively, and the result made available for public scrutiny. Also, I believe that adequate should be given to those administering them. For example, many of the vaccination failures may be the result of a failure to aspirate the syringe before pressing the plunger.

it's really scary to read something like this in 2021.

I believed the antivax discussion had been dropped in the early or mid 20th century.

After eradicating polio measles and so many other stupid diseases that used to kill people...

but nowadays they even believe in flat Earth, don't they?  

It's been pointed out to you many times, by me and by others, that this is a scam website. But here we go again...

https://www.logically.ai/articles/california-woman-anti-vax-site-openvaers

Even if you do at some point manage to find a site that reports impartially on VAERS data, it's hardly evidence of anything, given that VAERS is a self-reporting system. I've explained this to you before, too. But as we're regurgitating previous conversations that you may have "forgotten", let's have that quote again:

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

Except, of course, when people take  the time to peruse Open VAERS and all its CDC backup data. Then they see the almost 2 million deaths from the Covid vaxxes, and the millions of other health problems the vaxxes create.

The issue of vaccination is not bipolar but can manage the condition of the human body itself. If any issue does not work after receiving the vaccine, the physical condition is maintained the vaccine does not bring any activity it is the result of frustration bipolar is a type of mental illness people with bipolar disorder lack confidence and sometimes become overconfident. Many people also have nightmares in this disease bipolar is a bad condition which lasts a long time.