Topic: The Vitamin D Thread. - page 2. (Read 226 times)

Vitamin D boost immune and the immune system is the number 1 target of COVID-19 that's why expert suggest to take that vitamins to help fight the virus in case you got it. It's not a cure nor a medicine. It just help the body to boost the immune system to fight against COVID-19 which is I agree. People just misunderstood the comments of expert that's why there is always a confusion about this topic.

I also heard from doctors that Vitamin D is very important against covid 19. But when I ask how it is going to make a difference they remain very vague. Probably all vitamins are very important for the immun system. The only problem is that we can't vitamin D in enough quantities in fruits. The only real way to get vitamin D and store it in our body is through sun light. There is no need to buy expensive products from pharmaceutical companies for vitamin D, better to go outside everyday.

In reality I believe that drug treatment is often oriented to treat the symptoms instead of the causes, and that prevention with natural measures could help to avoid much use of drugs.

Regarding what you say, they are not exactly compacted nutrients, they can be extracts, products of chemical synthesis...

A few years ago I discovered that ginger is effective in treating headaches. I think it is healthier to take a teaspoon of powdered ginger root than to take ibuprofen. Do you think I will digest ginger worse than ibuprofen? I don't think so.


I agree and I said something like that in the OP.


Of course, but the question is what is a Vitamin D overdose. It is clear that taking 500K IU daily is too high a dose but as I believe current standards are too low.

And that's taking >30 ng/ml as the optimal level, which is too low in my opinion.


No, that is according to current standards and is too low. We have been led to believe that with a walk at 6 pm and with only your arms (and face) exposed to the sun you are going to get enough vitamin D, and it is not true. And you don't need to get like a lobster either, don't exaggerate we know you like it.

I understand your point, and yes the picture might be clearer if we were able to differentiate between two groups who are the same in age, comorbidities, general fitness etc, and differed only in vit D level. That would be ideal, and hopefully we will see studies where this is the case.

What this particular study shows is that people with high vit D tend to: be younger, have fewer comorbidities, have a vastly lower death rate, and be more active.

Of course it is difficult to disentangle the variables from one another. But the point is that if if age by itself can be considered a risk factor, then so can vit D level by itself. Whether that is simply as a proxy for age is a different question... as is the question of whether vulnerability due to age is simply a proxy for vit D.

the table above that has mean age and higher vitD  shows no determining factor.

by having lower age and higher vit d .. cancels out any relevant conclusion of both

is the less death due to age.. or vit d.. .. no one can tell

if they done a study of 100 people in 65+ group with low vit d. then 100 people in 65+ with higher vit d .. then you can make a conclusion

but having a group of 45yo with high vit d.. just messes up any conclusion about vit D

.
also having alot of vitd in blood does not mean its where it should be, accelerating bone metabolism
there are many people that cannot process vit D so it just remains in the blood. accumulating but not metabolising.
these people can have high vit d count toxifying themselves whilst still not effecting their bones.

some people need to actually find out what their body needs. and not just try everything in high doses and hope it makes them immortal. because the opposite can happen

you do not need to overdose on supplements. nor sunbathe until you are a lobster to get vit D.
just get out your basement for an hour a day and you will have what your body needs.

no pill. no prescription. no pharmacy visit. no over the counter payments
the walk to a store 30minutes away and back. is more then you need than what can be bought on the vitamin D rack inside the store

It may be too late, once I get involved


https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1548/rr-22
4. Grant WB, Lahore H, McDonnell SL, et al. Evidence that Vitamin D Supplementation Could Reduce Risk of Influenza and COVID-19 Infections and Deaths. Nutrients 2020;12(4):E988. doi: 10.3390/nu12040988
5. Annweiler C, Cao Z, Wu Y, et al. Counter-regulatory 'Renin-Angiotensin' System-based Candidate Drugs to Treat COVID-19 Diseases in SARS-CoV-2-infected patients. Infect Disord Drug Targets 2020 doi: 10.2174/1871526520666200518073329

It does appear that the data are increasingly suggesting that vitamin D supplementation vs Covid is a good idea. Interestingly, point 5 in that paper appears to contradict the idea raised in a previous thread about ACE2. But I am not a medical professional, and my understanding of the processes involved is rudimentary.

The best and most comprehensive paper I've found is this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7276229/


It is firmly established that older age groups suffer worse outcomes from Covid. Is this linked to reduced vitamin D synthesis with age?

I've found a study (linked to from the paper above) that has interesting results. My bold. We need more studies, we need more data, but a pattern does appear to be emerging:

vitamin D is not the sole cause of immune deficiency.

there are many factors at play
for instance VitD aids getting calcium to the bones.
but this also means calcium is the active ingredient. so having a calcium issue may be due to something else. including low calcium

no matter how much sunbathing someone does. having a calcium deficiency wont cure a calcium deficiency by sunbathing even more.
you might have already been at adequate vitD levels and just needed some calcium. so just taking more vitD/sunbathes wont help one bit. but can cause more issues.


infact excessive vit D can cause bone marrow disease
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190208094330.htm

yes you can over do calcium and vit D and cause an over hardening of your bones which then cause issues with the marrow inside from being able to produce blood and immuno cells

if you are overdosing on vit D then vit D is not the solution

there is a motto.. that remains true "a balanced diet"
going excess in any direction is not going to 'strengthen' you.

I am no doctor nor have medical related degrees in me to have a valid opinion about this so I will direct my comment to your conclusion.

Based on your conclusion, you're stating that people should be treated by more natural way than drugs sold in the pharmaceuticals. But take in mind that drugs in pharmaceutical are compacted nutrients, minerals for specific reasons. Having it in capsules or tablet make it easier to be digested in the body without having complicated chemical reactions inside the body.

Though I must say that my comment is based on my knowledge right now, so I am open for clarifications.

There are many conspiracy theories, that man never landed on the moon, that the twin towers attacks were a false flag, that COVID is a creation of Bill Gates and that vaccines are microchipped, etc.

I don't believe in most conspiracy theories (unlike some on this board, lol), but I do believe in some of them, and in particular in the one I am going to expose.

Mainly what I will defend is that the importance of vitamin D is at least minimized, when not directly attacked, by the pharmaceutical industry because optimal levels of vitamin D make us have a stronger immune system, and thus need less medication. Although I open the thread not only to talk about the possible conspiracy, but also about all the benefits and disadvantages it may have.

If you ask your doctor if you should sunbathe, he will tell you, if he follows the current guidelines, that you should sunbathe sparingly, not in the middle of the day and using sunscreen.

This is what has been said for about half a century, and the result can be seen in the following graphs on melanoma cases:



And this in the USA:



This increase in cases, according to the official version, is due to everything but the recommendations given causing the increase in cases.

Without denying that exposure to the sun's rays can have a detrimental effect and lead to melanoma, I believe that short exposures, without burning the skin (and without applying sunscreen), have more benefits than harm in this regard.

I have read a lot of articles on this subject over the years and I don't want to turn this post into an academic article with lots of citations, so I will quote sparingly to show that there is some evidence suggesting that optimal vitamin D levels may reduce the risk of melanoma:

"Results suggest that both deficient and insufficient serum levels of vitamin D are associated with melanoma and that a trend seems to be present with a reduced risk of melanoma when vitamin D approaches normal values."

Source: 25-Hydroxyvitamin D serum levels and melanoma risk: a case-control study and evidence synthesis of clinical epidemiological studies

Then, in Role of vitamin D serum levels in prevention of primary and recurrent melanoma we can read:

(From the conclusion): "This result agrees with other studies that recognize a deficiency status of vitamin D as a possible predisposing factor for the development of melanoma. The hypothesis is supported by the deficit of the known anti-proliferative and antiangiogenics effect attributable to calcitriol, which would have an antitumor action."

Vitamin D and the immune system

Vitamin D's best known function is to deliver calcium to the bones. Not so well known is the more important function of strengthening the immune system, although we hear more and more about it. Many articles on this subject are compiled in:

https://vitamindwiki.com/Immunity

The pharmaceutical industry tends to underestimate this function and to exaggerate the only possible adverse effect of oral vitamin D supplementation (hypercalcemia). With a stronger immune system, we need fewer drugs, and optimal levels of vitamin D can be obtained either for free by sunbathing or inexpensively through oral supplementation that is not sold exclusively by pharmaceutical companies.

Anyway, nor should we think that vitamin D is a magic substance, something like the holy grail. It may have many beneficial effects, but someone with optimal vitamin D levels but who was under a lot of stress and little sleep for several days would have a weakened immune system. It's not all about vitamin D.

Vitamin D and COVID-19

There is growing evidence that optimal levels of Vitamin D may have a beneficial effect against COVID-19 infection. Again, there are many articles on the subject compiled in:

https://vitamindwiki.com/COVID-19+treated+by+Vitamin+D+-+studies%2C+reports%2C+videos

I'm not going to get into whether vaccines would not have been needed if everyone had optimal vitamin D levels, but the evidence suggests that people with optimal vitamin D levels would have a lower risk of developing a severe clinical picture from COVID-19 than people with vitamin D deficiency. Therefore, I understand that it would be at least a good complement to the other measures, masks, vaccines, etc....

My personal experience.

About 4 or 5 years ago I discovered this issue and started to sunbathe more (with short exposures and with as much of my body exposed as possible, without sunscreen and without ever burning my skin) and taking oral vitamin D in winter. As I went way over the recommended daily amount (between 20 and 30k IU during the winter months), I had blood tests done to measure vitamin D and calcium. My calcium has always been normal despite sometimes exceeding 100 ng/ml of vitamin D in my blood.

As for the effects: all positive. Better sleep, better mood and above all (and this is something that people who have optimal vitamin D levels usually report) I haven't had a cold or the flu since then (no COVID either), even though I used to get colds before and it took at least a week for the symptoms to go away. Only a couple of times I felt like I was coming down with a cold but the symptoms lasted a day.

Conclusion:

I believe that most people would benefit from having optimal vitamin D levels, and the pharmaceutical industry would make less profit, lol.

I am not against medicines in general either, as they have been a great advance in the history of mankind and have contributed to lengthen life expectancy, but nowadays there is a tendency to chronically medicate people for things that could be solved in a more natural way.