Topic: The war with Russia: can we end it? Do we want to? (Read 760 times)

Thanks. Take a look at this thread too, the mess is being sorted out there: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-russians-v-tman-peace-treaty-5099822


Not sure if I should merit you or MODERATE YOU OUT for being off topic so I'll do neither

No collusion!


Go away.

Just wait for the Mueller report that will clear up all the confusion about Russian collusion!   

I'm willing to give a hand here. I've been very careful who I put on my list the past few days. Trying to hold my "frozen list" policy until all the trust mess is sorted out.
If there is a Russian candidate/representative willing to be on DT, please point him out and I'll have a look. My Russian is quite bad but still I can understand enough to be able to tell if I could trust the person .. as far as you can trust anonymous stranger....

Stop twisting things.
You are the one who has tried to manipulate and caused all this mess.

Why did you edit post #47 http://archive.is/yNmaO#selection-15740.17-15813.14 ?

What happened to post #54 http://archive.is/yNmaO#selection-18345.23-18345.44 ?

#47 - edited 20. January
#54 - removed

FTFY. Cold war had more indirect attacks.

No one gives a shit what you think, you are trying to cause trouble and aren't even Russian - whats the issue? why are you trying to cause the great bitcoin cold war?

It is public information.

I believe this green trust giveaway in Russia local board is working just like the merit giveaways there.

Russia board always circulated much more merit than any other local board. Not only because of the high activity there, but I believe people there are more willing to help his fellow Russian companions.

I have a feeling some of these users included Quickseller (and even cryptohunter) out of spite due to their vocal opposition to Lauda and TMAN. I don't think they actually trust Quickseller's or cryptohunter's judgement. Granted that's not a good use of the trust system, but someone including someone who's including Quickseller probably can be forgiven in this context. Another thing to consider is that there are three degrees of "severity" in these actions:

1) including someone
2) not including someone
3) excluding someone

So in your example - perhaps I wouldn't include you but I wouldn't exclude you either (#2). Excluding Quicksy is enough.

Fun fact, once a few months ago I was about to a trade with an account and the buyer was russian. He used as escrow a legendary member active in their forum area.

I have the normal settings of trust and he told me the user is green trusted and escrows accounts. Whatever I go check his profile and it was neutral, nothing impressing.

But actually I figured out that all of them have different trust settings as so between them their trust is only visible. Literally from +42 to 0 neutral is a difference.

I didn't make a lot of sense in my post now but hopefuly you get my point.

I am not agree with these facts.

Trust lists at the moment:

MaoChao https://prnt.sc/m9oc8x
Polkeins https://prnt.sc/m9ofxk
madnessteat https://prnt.sc/m9og7t
taikuri13 https://prnt.sc/m9odf8
*Goran_ https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49313164
*TheFuzzStone https://prnt.sc/m9ocq6
*Rooivalk https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49313164
*Whitemanwhite http://prntscr.com/m9oi4i
*DabLjat http://prntscr.com/m9ojez
*3meek http://prntscr.com/m9okfl
*peloso http://prntscr.com/m9ojpm has loan scammer in trust list connected to pinkman and other account farmers and loan scammers
*xenon131 - had quickseller in trust list https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/massive-abuse-in-the-russian-section-5098584

I will reconsider removing ~ from few accounts. * will very likely remain excluded.

Yes, but what if I had quickseller(xenon131) in my list(hypothetically speaking)? Would you vote for me then and put me into your trust list, or anyone else? I don't think so.

These accounts actually did this, they added someone who had quickseller to their trust list. And some accounts excluded some other accounts for unknown reasons.

And, for the record, I don't agree with -ve.

I think a better approach would be to exclude those "accounts with bad trust lists" directly rather than exclude the person's "sponsor". I bet there are some questionable characters in many DT2 members' networks if we look two levels down (DT3/DT4 essentially).

I think any red trust posted as a result of TMAN's thread needs to go. If there is another, legitimate reason for it - needs to be specified and referenced properly. "Collusion" is BS. We all "collude" in Meta all day long. I just "colluded" with marlboroza above on how I think a trust list can be built and he's probably gonna disagree with me anyway - that's pretty much exactly what was going on in that Russian thread that triggered most of those red trusts.

Thanks. That's a nasty-ass typo to make in an important statement

Let's ignore them. Their exclusions mean nothing and they can do their DT0 thing but unless theymos applies it by default to all accounts it won't get anywhere. On the other hand, reasonable users advocating for custom trust lists should be respected and supported as long as we agree on what the purpose of the trust system is and how it should be used (e.g. no ratings/inclusions for merely "nice people").

I think current DT members should to re-think some of their ratings.

whatever is happening now is more or less people protesting , while there could be a "gang" that is trying to take over the whole trust system, they will most certainly never be able do anything without the support of the masses.

i know the majority of complains come from scammer being tagged by DT members, but there is a very good amount of people who are tagged for silly reasons.

if we focus the rating on scammers only, then it will always be a war against scammers and nothing else, but for the time being, it's scammers , trolls, freaks, some decent members, and lastly the Russians ( are against DT) i expect to see more of this coming.

I think one of the main reasons why they are excluding DT members is the fact that they always feel insecure as the they could be tagged for any reason a DT member can think of which can be as silly as the word "lemon" , not trying to bring this off-topic but we really need to "agree" on certain rules regarding the trust system to prevent such issues from rising in the first place.

also among the active Russian members I think " Alex_Sr" is a very reasonable guy that could start the peacemaking.

As noted by xenon131, there are very sensible and productive conversations going on in the Russian forum right now:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49326422
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fbitcointalk.org%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D5096402.msg49326422%23msg49326422 (English Google Translation)

They are essentially in agreement that thinks have got out of hand, and are looking to start over. They are talking about removing all the red trust they have given, deciding on a spokesman/representative, and forming a list of issues they would like addressed. It's also interesting that they have also identified peloso (who seemed to start this whole thing off) as not representative of them on the whole: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49329252.

I think it would only be fair to also remove our red trust from users like taikuri13 and xenon131, in an effort to wipe the slate clean and start again constructively.

I excluded accounts who excluded members without any specific reason and/or included accounts with such lists and/or included accounts which have scammers and trolls in their lists:



I included xandry few days ago and Alex_Sr yesterday.

I might remove ~ from some accounts but this is not possible if you have accounts with bad trust lists in your trust network.

If it started with Alex_Sr, that means I caused "war with Russia":
After this post, Alex_Sr was quickly excluded by a few users, and currently has an equal number of inclusions and exclusions, which means he's back on DT2 already.

I explained my reasoning here:
And here:

A week ago, Alex_Sr has included these users:
Yesterday, he included nobody. My guess/hope is that this means he's re-evaluating his stance on DT, and I'm curious to see the result.

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Thanks for trying to mediate suchmoon!

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In case there is any doubt: I have nothing against Russians, and all Russians I've met are nice people.

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What scares me for the future of DT, is that Alex_Sr was only an example, which I found by coincidence looking into a small fraction of DT. I still haven't had the time to do a much more in-depth analysis of DT, but I kinda expect many more cases like this in the future.

This is my only comment on this situation for the time being:

This is also me trying very hard not to be insulting given the absurd way this is being handled by them. The two moderators should be helping de-escalating from the other side, but they have always been useless.

I would like this sorted in a sensible way. They need representation on DT as I wanted in the 1st place by adding alex, if they would realise that and step back a little we could move forward and sort this out sensibly.

Part of this issue is that the majority of those guys don’t understand DT are not active in meta and don’t tag actively - what’s the point of members like that being on DT?

If I am not wrong, problem started from Alex_Sr. He was added by TMAN, but unfortunately Alex_Sr left few positive feedback. I didn't knew Alex_Sr before added on DT. Then someone mentioned about his feedback's on meta thread and TMAN remove him. Then he revised his feedback's and TMAN was re-add him but some other DT1 exclude him. Then TMAN made few investigation and he found thread on Russian board. Eventually TMAN also exclude Alex_Sr and opened a tread regarding Russian board abuse. TMAN also not wrong with his statement
What I noticed from marlboroza reply, there is open discussion about inclusion and exclusion. They have exclude all reputed DT1 and publish openly which is look wrong to me. However I didn't notice that anything much wrong on Alex_Sr discussion.

I don't know how this war will be end. Because they are against most of reputed current DT1 and they strongly stand against them which I noticed from this post . They also using bad language for suchmoon who is encourage to solve the issue. So how you can solve that problem? They just want manipulate DT1 from Russian board and exclude old DT1 who have tagged them, and obviously they will tag back when they will become DT1.

Since adding DT1 is not possible right now, so it would be better add some DT2 from Russian board who deserve it. If we exclude all of from Russian board then war not going to stop.


To be honest, they want to make their own network and tag back who have tagged them. Obviously there is no point to add them who is not active and not actively tagging scammers.

I should specify that to "the vocal community in Meta".

I agree.

That's the problem, of course. At least for the ones that have replied in the Meta thread about the Russian DT0 reforms, they have a strong distrust of several current-DT1 members.

It would be great to conduct some civil discourse.