The Willy Report and PRICE!!? | Bitcointalksearch.org

turvarya

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Quote from: leopard2 on May 27, 2014, 11:31:28 AM

There was a Willy on Gox

Not on btc-e, bitfinex and and and

Due to the fact that no USD left Gox, the Willy price was not driving the other prices up via arbitrage. Gox and its price were functioning as a lighthouse maybe, but the ships were driven by their own engines, if you will.

When BTC hit the 1000$-mark, you could still withdraw from Gox. Get your timeline right.

BitDreams

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mtGox manipulated the price down to near 100$ the last week they were in business.

Why didn't that decline mirror on the other exchanges?

One could reason that mtGox's 100-dollar print was what dragged the other exchanges down below 400, ok.

The key question is, where is the median line of all of these high and low peaks in price and where is price right now?

waldox

sr. member

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i remember in the 2013 china buy up
btc china had a consistent 20% markup on price vs bitstamp and more volume too
so willy may have had an impact but it would be small compared to china

bananas

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market is manupulated since day, don't believe anyone who says it is not
bitcoin is worth less then 10 dollars

leopard2

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There was a Willy on Gox

Not on btc-e, bitfinex and and and

Due to the fact that no USD left Gox, the Willy price was not driving the other prices up via arbitrage. Gox and its price were functioning as a lighthouse maybe, but the ships were driven by their own engines, if you will.

blatchcorn

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The bitcoin market has always been manipulated. Nothing has changed

kokoarm

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Quote from: DooMAD on May 27, 2014, 08:21:44 AM

Quote from: kokoarm on May 27, 2014, 07:55:50 AM

For BTC to become mainstream it needs to be manipulateable in one way or another - that's how big currency traders/market makers make their edge.

So you're saying corruption and manipulation is good because it allows shady individuals to make a quick buck? I don't think that's what the majority of people want to see in crypto. Let's try to keep a level playing field here, shall we? Not repeat the mistakes of the current monetary system where the finance sector pull the strings and everyone else dances to their tune.

Corruption? No didn't mention it. Was a general comment on price manipulation.

Manipulation is what bigtime currency trading is all about. Big shakers (buyers and brokers) in the traditional forex markets manipulate price at every turn. It happens every day and it's a core part of how they load and unwind positions/make profit. If we want BTC to go mainstream and be a part of the traditional Forex market then this is what you need to expect. Big players don't want to put their money into a fair game, they want the ability to rig or play the market. Let them do it because it will mean Billions and Billions of dollars coming into the currency.

If it's illegal like an exchange bot we shouldn't sanction it but price manipulation is just part of the game.

Chris_Sabian

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The Willy Report does have alot of technical analysis and does post some very good arguments with data.

alani123

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: DooMAD on May 27, 2014, 08:21:44 AM

Quote from: kokoarm on May 27, 2014, 07:55:50 AM

For BTC to become mainstream it needs to be manipulateable in one way or another - that's how big currency traders/market makers make their edge.

So you're saying corruption and manipulation is good because it allows shady individuals to make a quick buck? I don't think that's what the majority of people want to see in crypto. Let's try to keep a level playing field here, shall we? Not repeat the mistakes of the current monetary system where the finance sector pull the strings and everyone else dances to their tune.

Neutrality of bitcoin leaves it open to anyone. No matter who someone is, there's no one there to stop them from manipulating the price of it if he has the power to.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: kokoarm on May 27, 2014, 07:55:50 AM

For BTC to become mainstream it needs to be manipulateable in one way or another - that's how big currency traders/market makers make their edge.

So you're saying corruption and manipulation is good because it allows shady individuals to make a quick buck? I don't think that's what the majority of people want to see in crypto. Let's try to keep a level playing field here, shall we? Not repeat the mistakes of the current monetary system where the finance sector pull the strings and everyone else dances to their tune.

davidgdg

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Quote from: alani123 on May 27, 2014, 06:27:30 AM

Quote from: davidgdg on May 27, 2014, 06:19:58 AM

The "Willy" trading amounted to less than 3% of the BTC traded in November. The price impact would have been marginal. Move on. Nothing to see here.

More than 7% to be percise. I'm pretty sure that such a volume would have had a solid impact on the price. The market obviously had an uptrend and the whales pushed it further.

Wrong.

Total trade volume November: 9.9 million BTC (source: http://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/2y?c=e&t=a&volume_unit=btc)

November Willy trades: 0.27 million BTC (source http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/
)

0.27/9.9 = 2.7%

Note that this is an over-estimate. The Willy Report actually says this: "In total, a staggering ~$112 million was spent to buy close to 270,000 BTC – the bulk of which was bought in November".

So not all of the 270,000 BTC were bought in November, just "the bulk " of them.

Fewer than 2.7% of all trades is trivial in the scheme of things.

kokoarm

newbie

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From the report--

I specifically waited for the Goxless, free market to finally break the ongoing downtrend on its own strength before releasing it. Barring similar shenanigans at other exchanges (looking at you China) I think this means we may be at a “fair” valuation now, and that this knowledge will not hurt the price all that much. Hopefully, price can rise at a more controlled pace as more and more good news comes out; it will be much better for Bitcoin as a technology than the crazy volatility and outrageous valuations we’ve seen last year.

If this bot only did 7% of the market then the price was only ever 7% over-valued. We would still have seen 1000 usd. This manipulation is standard in currencies --- look up currency wars.

For BTC to become mainstream it needs to be manipulateable in one way or another - that's how big currency traders/market makers make their edge.

HCLivess

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=== NODE IS OK! ==

No, everybody knows everything about BOTs already. Willy is totally irrelevant, stop trying to FUD, you cannot break the technical analysis. Bye.

alani123

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: davidgdg on May 27, 2014, 06:19:58 AM

The "Willy" trading amounted to less than 3% of the BTC traded in November. The price impact would have been marginal. Move on. Nothing to see here.

More than 7% to be percise. I'm pretty sure that such a volume would have had a solid impact on the price. The market obviously had an uptrend and the whales pushed it further.

davidgdg

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The "Willy" trading amounted to less than 3% of the BTC traded in November. The price impact would have been marginal. Move on. Nothing to see here.

alani123

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

relevant post in reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26is61/the_simplest_explanation_is_usually_the_right_one/

Quote

...Willy didn't pay fees or fiat because it operated outside the purview of what a normal trader would have to do. High value clients would have direct relationships with MtGox, and would likely have special fee structure in place that they would pay to MtGox separately and at a different time than trades. Willy didn't back up trades with fiat because fiat was likely wired to MtGox separately, in bulk...

So those bots could just be elite customers.

turvarya

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I have asked that question at another Thread and nobody answered it, so I ask it here again:
If the price of BTC falls, who is selling at this low price?
If nobody is selling at a lower price, than the price can not fall-->Economics 101

irlandescoin

hero member

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Hey yo let's go

see guys:

The Willy Report: proof of massive fraudulent trading activity at Mt. Gox, and how it has affected the price of Bitcoin

http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

neofelis

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Quote from: Mikcik on May 26, 2014, 04:10:46 PM

Quote from: gnode on May 26, 2014, 06:57:15 AM

Oh no! the U.S. stock market is manipulated, it will crash to zero tomorrow!

Wake up Chicken Little.

you are total idiot, i dont even know why am i wasting my time with this post, but ok, it said that we should help the weak (in your case stupid) ones:

Does the MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION know that the stock market is manipulated? NO! What will happen when the majority finds out, and realizes that the price is overburn? The price will fell... oh... and what did the majority of bitcoin world found out now... that the price is manipulated...

Really i said it many times here, if you do not have anything usefull to contribute, dont contribute at all.

Be nice We all have something in common, our love of bitcoin. We also have different backgrounds and levels of knowledge. So please, let's be nice to each other.

bluemeanie1

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bluemeanie

Quote from: Mikcik on May 26, 2014, 04:10:46 PM

Quote from: gnode on May 26, 2014, 06:57:15 AM

Oh no! the U.S. stock market is manipulated, it will crash to zero tomorrow!

Wake up Chicken Little.

you are total idiot, i dont even know why am i wasting my time with this post, but ok, it said that we should help the weak (in your case stupid) ones:

Does the MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION know that the stock market is manipulated? NO! What will happen when the majority finds out, and realizes that the price is overburn? The price will fell... oh... and what did the majority of bitcoin world found out now... that the price is manipulated...

Really i said it many times here, if you do not have anything usefull to contribute, dont contribute at all.

once the stampede begins it'll be over before you even knew what happened.

-bm

Topic: The Willy Report and PRICE!!? (Read 2909 times)