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Topic: The YACoin Superfun Premine Thread - page 4. (Read 8975 times)

legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1023
May 09, 2013, 06:34:41 PM
#91
can we, as a community, create a coin that we all AGREE is fair terms?  like right from the get-go, a solution that works for all of us?

thats not going to happen
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
May 09, 2013, 06:32:35 PM
#90
I meant scrypt(1024, 1, 1) should be set to something like scrypt(1024, 128, 1)*. Setting the second parameter to "1" means that IT'S NOT GPU RESISTANT. Artforz fucked a lot of guys with his set of parameters.


* scrypt(CPU cost, memory cost, parallelization cost)

N isn't CPU cost, it's CPU and memory cost.  And even at that, there's little different between using N or r to increase memory usage past a certain point because you become very quickly memory bandwidth limited.  You're welcome to test it out with scrypt-jane if you want to, though.  You'll see that when memory consumption is equivalent with either N or R being used to increase it the time to get a hash is about the same past 128 KB or so of memory usage.

It's arguable.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11126315/what-are-optimal-scrypt-work-factors

EDIT: Btw, the time has proven that Litecoin is NOT GPU resistant. This lets us suspect that my point of view is more correct than urs. Smiley
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
May 09, 2013, 06:32:04 PM
#89
and the fact there were no clear instructions on how to CPU mine. The instructions were made more clear later on. I didn't realize you just had to run the wallet with a few switches to start mining. Also all those pictures posted a couple of days ago of people eating popcorn was a signal some people were raking in the coins.

 Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

Copy-Paste from yacoin-qt:
Code:
Options:
  -?                     This help message
  -conf=           Specify configuration file (default: yacoin.conf)
  -pid=            Specify pid file (default: yacoind.pid)
  -gen                   Generate coins
  -gen=0                 Don't generate coins
  -datadir=         Specify data directory
  -dbcache=           Set database cache size in megabytes (default: 25)
  -dblogsize=         Set database disk log size in megabytes (default: 100)
  -timeout=           Specify connection timeout in milliseconds (default: 5000)
  -proxy=       Connect through socks proxy
  -socks=             Select the version of socks proxy to use (4-5, default: 5)
  -tor=         Use proxy to reach tor hidden services (default: same as -proxy)
  -dns                   Allow DNS lookups for -addnode, -seednode and -connect
  -port=           Listen for connections on (default: 7688 or testnet: 17688)
  -maxconnections=    Maintain at most connections to peers (default: 125)
  -addnode=          Add a node to connect to and attempt to keep the connection open
  -connect=          Connect only to the specified node(s)
  -seednode=         Connect to a node to retrieve peer addresses, and disconnect
  -externalip=       Specify your own public address
  -onlynet=         Only connect to nodes in network (IPv4, IPv6 or Tor)
  -discover              Discover own IP address (default: 1 when listening and no -externalip)
  -irc                   Find peers using internet relay chat (default: 1)
  -listen                Accept connections from outside (default: 1 if no -proxy or -connect)
  -bind=           Bind to given address. Use [host]:port notation for IPv6
  -dnsseed               Find peers using DNS lookup (default: 0)
  -banscore=          Threshold for disconnecting misbehaving peers (default: 100)
  -bantime=           Number of seconds to keep misbehaving peers from reconnecting (default: 86400)
  -maxreceivebuffer=  Maximum per-connection receive buffer, *1000 bytes (default: 5000)
  -maxsendbuffer=     Maximum per-connection send buffer, *1000 bytes (default: 1000)
  -upnp                  Use UPnP to map the listening port (default: 1 when listening)
  -detachdb              Detach block and address databases. Increases shutdown time (default: 0)
  -paytxfee=        Fee per KB to add to transactions you send
  -server                Accept command line and JSON-RPC commands
  -testnet               Use the test network
  -debug                 Output extra debugging information. Implies all other -debug* options
  -debugnet              Output extra network debugging information
  -logtimestamps         Prepend debug output with timestamp
  -shrinkdebugfile       Shrink debug.log file on client startup (default: 1 when no -debug)
  -printtoconsole        Send trace/debug info to console instead of debug.log file
  -rpcuser=        Username for JSON-RPC connections
  -rpcpassword=      Password for JSON-RPC connections
  -rpcport=        Listen for JSON-RPC connections on (default: 8344 or testnet: 18344)
  -rpcallowip=       Allow JSON-RPC connections from specified IP address
  -rpcconnect=       Send commands to node running on (default: 127.0.0.1)
  -blocknotify=     Execute command when the best block changes (%s in cmd is replaced by block hash)
  -upgradewallet         Upgrade wallet to latest format
  -keypool=           Set key pool size to (default: 100)
  -rescan                Rescan the block chain for missing wallet transactions
  -salvagewallet         Attempt to recover private keys from a corrupt wallet.dat
  -checkblocks=       How many blocks to check at startup (default: 2500, 0 = all)
  -checklevel=        How thorough the block verification is (0-6, default: 1)
  -loadblock=      Imports blocks from external blk000?.dat file

Block creation options:
  -blockminsize=      Set minimum block size in bytes (default: 0)
  -blockmaxsize=      Set maximum block size in bytes (default: 250000)
  -blockprioritysize= Set maximum size of high-priority/low-fee transactions in bytes (default: 27000)

SSL options: (see the Bitcoin Wiki for SSL setup instructions)
  -rpcssl                                  Use OpenSSL (https) for JSON-RPC connections
  -rpcsslcertificatechainfile=  Server certificate file (default: server.cert)
  -rpcsslprivatekeyfile=         Server private key (default: server.pem)
  -rpcsslciphers=                 Acceptable ciphers (default: TLSv1+HIGH:!SSLv2:!aNULL:!eNULL:!AH:!3DES:@STRENGTH)

UI options:
  -lang=           Set language, for example "de_DE" (default: system locale)
  -min                   Start minimized
  -splash                Show splash screen on startup (default: 1)


Copy-past from the first postin official YAC thread:
Code:
Finally command lines looks like:
Windows: yacoin-qt -gen -genproclimit=1
Linux: yacoin-qt -gen -genproclimit=1

No clear instructions? Can you read?  Are you 6 years old?

And yes, there are some gifs with people eating popcorn. And what? Do you have a problem with that?

Please don't make from you a bigger idiot than you are and STFU...

ps: If your message was a joke,then HAHA,you got me...

pps: Sorry guys, but I spent all day helping people with yac mining, mostly answering 10 times the same question, and I just can't stand the ignorance of some people. Why do you do something you have 0 knowledge about? First - learn (read, use the search button, ...). Then ask. And even at this point, there is 90% chance your question was already answered. If I could do it through without asking, anyone can too...
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 06:29:54 PM
#88
Yet the Windows build gave me 60 KH/s while my Ubuntu build gave me 400 KH/s with my 2700K -- totally different story.

Anyway, who wants to buy some YAC?

400 KH/s?
I'm getting merely 200-400kH/s on my Intel hexacore. That said I cannot use the AVX optimisation as it runs inside Virtualbox. However, I don't see how this is a totally different story -- we have the same with ASICs for Bitcoin, GPUs that arrived for Litecoin etc.

YAC might not be more "pure" than other coins. But at least it is a new concept and not a simple clone such as FTC and CNC. I have my doubts whether it is the right concept. But only time will tell.

I also find it hypocritical to ask for a "fair" coin. What is fair? Fair, so that everybody can profit? Fair, so that "I" can profit enough and in particular more than the other guy that I'm envious of? Fair, so I can dump it onto buyers and cash out?

Is anybody even remotely thinking about the original motivation of a coin? To make digital payments easy and secure. Mining surely was more of a necessary evil (consuming Megawatts and 100k$/day) than a wanted aspect of the network. I could think of a strategy that should limit the required mining power.

Unfair is when I make lots more than everyone else for no greater effort -- which is what I've done repeatedly.  Like I said, I got a bunch of YACs.  But I figure people not into the crypto p'n'd' scene will fail to see the value of something that has ponzi-scheme like distributions in the first week that it's out.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 06:27:17 PM
#87
This is one of the reasons that the YACoin chain makes no sense itself, because it eventually intends to use values of N in the gigabyte range.

Won't people be mainly mining PoS by the time Scrypt PoW uses more memory than a cheap home computer can hold? At worst it's just a kill switch for PoW to try to make it economically unfeasible to use specialized hardware.

No, because suddenly you have blocks that are worth 100 coins because the difficulty is so low and no one can mine quickly.  The difficulty algorithm in the code increases block reward with decreasing difficulty.
full member
Activity: 167
Merit: 100
May 09, 2013, 06:26:52 PM
#86
Yet the Windows build gave me 60 KH/s while my Ubuntu build gave me 400 KH/s with my 2700K -- totally different story.

Anyway, who wants to buy some YAC?

400 KH/s?
I'm getting merely 200-400kH/s on my Intel hexacore. That said I cannot use the AVX optimisation as it runs inside Virtualbox. However, I don't see how this is a totally different story -- we have the same with ASICs for Bitcoin, GPUs that arrived for Litecoin etc.

YAC might not be more "pure" than other coins. But at least it is a new concept and not a simple clone such as FTC and CNC. I have my doubts whether it is the right concept. But only time will tell.

I also find it hypocritical to ask for a "fair" coin. What is fair? Fair, so that everybody can profit? Fair, so that "I" can profit enough and in particular more than the other guy that I'm envious of? Fair, so I can dump it onto buyers and cash out?

Is anybody even remotely thinking about the original motivation of a coin? To make digital payments easy and secure. Mining surely was more of a necessary evil (consuming Megawatts and 100k$/day) than a wanted aspect of the network. I could think of a strategy that should limit the required mining power.

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 06:25:40 PM
#85
I meant scrypt(1024, 1, 1) should be set to something like scrypt(1024, 128, 1)*. Setting the second parameter to "1" means that IT'S NOT GPU RESISTANT. Artforz fucked a lot of guys with his set of parameters.


* scrypt(CPU cost, memory cost, parallelization cost)

N isn't CPU cost, it's CPU and memory cost.  And even at that, there's little different between using N or r to increase memory usage past a certain point because you become very quickly memory bandwidth limited.  You're welcome to test it out with scrypt-jane if you want to, though.  You'll see that when memory consumption is equivalent with either N or R being used to increase it the time to get a hash is about the same past 128 KB or so of memory usage.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
May 09, 2013, 06:24:36 PM
#84
You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.

That wasn't the problem (although the author of this coin is trying to use that to sell you on it).

Regardless of the value of N, the GPU will likely be faster until you hit some value in the hundreds of megabytes that requires all of the 8-16 GB of RAM available on a modern computer.  The reason for this is because you can adjust the amount of memory usage in exchange for number of ALU cycles (this is exactly what the "lookup_gap" variable does in reaper/cgminer).  But at a value of N large enough to prohibit faster GPU mining, a single hash is measured in seconds to minutes.  This makes it impossible to use for a blockchain hash and was detailed in the memcoin thread I created a long time ago.  YACoin is actually more or less exactly what I specified in the original memcoin thread.  This is one of the reasons that the YACoin chain makes no sense itself, because it eventually intends to use values of N in the gigabyte range.


I meant scrypt(1024, 1, 1) should be set to something like scrypt(1024, 128, 1)*. Setting the second parameter to "1" means that IT'S NOT GPU RESISTANT. Artforz fucked a lot of guys with his set of parameters.


* scrypt(CPU cost, memory cost, parallelization cost)

Sad part being that he knew this VERY well as it was pointed out early in development. Then again, why fix something that you can profit off?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
The cryptocoin watcher
May 09, 2013, 06:23:43 PM
#83
This is one of the reasons that the YACoin chain makes no sense itself, because it eventually intends to use values of N in the gigabyte range.

Won't people be mainly mining PoS by the time Scrypt PoW uses more memory than a cheap home computer can hold? At worst it's just a kill switch for PoW to try to make it economically unfeasible to use specialized hardware.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
May 09, 2013, 06:22:41 PM
#82
You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.

That wasn't the problem (although the author of this coin is trying to use that to sell you on it).

Regardless of the value of N, the GPU will likely be faster until you hit some value in the hundreds of megabytes that requires all of the 8-16 GB of RAM available on a modern computer.  The reason for this is because you can adjust the amount of memory usage in exchange for number of ALU cycles (this is exactly what the "lookup_gap" variable does in reaper/cgminer).  But at a value of N large enough to prohibit faster GPU mining, a single hash is measured in seconds to minutes.  This makes it impossible to use for a blockchain hash and was detailed in the memcoin thread I created a long time ago.  YACoin is actually more or less exactly what I specified in the original memcoin thread.  This is one of the reasons that the YACoin chain makes no sense itself, because it eventually intends to use values of N in the gigabyte range.


I meant scrypt(1024, 1, 1) should be set to something like scrypt(1024, 128, 1)*. Setting the second parameter to "1" means that IT'S NOT GPU RESISTANT. Artforz fucked a lot of guys with his set of parameters.


* scrypt(CPU cost, memory cost, parallelization cost)
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 06:21:10 PM
#81
You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.

Indeed, at the time someone immediately called out ArtForz about the choice of scrypt(1024,1,1) in pretty much the very next forum post.  I believe the wording was something along the lines of "are you joking?" and "don't you know anything about OpenCL?" when ArtForz suggested it would be GPU resistant.

Artforz logic was that the L2 CPU cache would be fast enough that it could compete with a GPU implementation.  I spoke with him myself around the time of the release of Tenebrix; the numbers he gave me for his naive GPU implementation were in line with those when running reaper with lookup_gap = 1 (which offers at most a 200% advantage).
sr. member
Activity: 347
Merit: 250
May 09, 2013, 06:18:12 PM
#80
You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.

Indeed, at the time someone immediately called out ArtForz about the choice of scrypt(1024,1,1) in pretty much the very next forum post.  I believe the wording was something along the lines of "are you joking?" and "don't you know anything about OpenCL?" when ArtForz suggested it would be GPU resistant.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
#79
You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.

That wasn't the problem (although the author of this coin is trying to use that to sell you on it).

Regardless of the value of N, the GPU will likely be faster until you hit some value in the hundreds of megabytes that requires all of the 8-16 GB of RAM available on a modern computer.  The reason for this is because you can adjust the amount of memory usage in exchange for number of ALU cycles (this is exactly what the "lookup_gap" variable does in reaper/cgminer).  But at a value of N large enough to prohibit faster GPU mining, a single hash is measured in seconds to minutes.  This makes it impossible to use for a blockchain hash and was detailed in the memcoin thread I created a long time ago.  Most of the ideas for YACoin came from the specifications for that coin, which were later revealed (to my chagrin) to make no sense.  This is one of the reasons that the YACoin chain makes no sense itself, because it eventually intends to use values of N in the gigabyte range.
sr. member
Activity: 347
Merit: 250
May 09, 2013, 06:15:04 PM
#78
and the fact there were no clear instructions on how to CPU mine. The instructions were made more clear later on. I didn't realize you just had to run the wallet with a few switches to start mining. Also all those pictures posted a couple of days ago of people eating popcorn was a signal some people were raking in the coins.

Possibly this is more an issue of people forgetting the past, back when CPU mining BTC was common.  I'd tend to say it wasn't a flaw of the YAC launch, just that a lot of people had forgotten how to CPU mine with the client itself, or entered the cryptocurrency scene and went straight to GPU mining without having ever attempted CPU mining.  Otherwise, the "gen" parameter to enable CPU mining in the client seems to be a long-term legacy dating to the original Bitcoin client and wasn't any sort of revolutionary or undocumented feature specific to Yacoin.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
May 09, 2013, 06:09:39 PM
#77
Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Well. I may be wrong and that was unintentional.

You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.

I recall an issue related to the chosen parameters (1024, 1, 1). This set of parameters leads to degeneracy of the algo (in mathematical sense), making it's easier to create GPU mining soft.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 06:05:47 PM
#76
Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Well. I may be wrong and that was unintentional.

You might be thinking of the GPU mining code -- no one knows if Artforz was able to get a GPU miner for Litecoin running after he realized that the TMTO issue with scrypt allowed for faster mining by GPU.  It's still a possibility; Artforz mined privately with his GPU miner when he implemented it for the Bitcoin chain, then only gave out the source code later.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
May 09, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
#75
Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Well. I may be wrong and that was unintentional.
sr. member
Activity: 310
Merit: 250
In Crypto I trust.
May 09, 2013, 05:57:33 PM
#74
tl;dr pretty much everyone running the Windows binaries from the onset was screwed.

and the fact there were no clear instructions on how to CPU mine. The instructions were made more clear later on. I didn't realize you just had to run the wallet with a few switches to start mining. Also all those pictures posted a couple of days ago of people eating popcorn was a signal some people were raking in the coins.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
May 09, 2013, 05:57:01 PM
#73
tl;dr pretty much everyone running the Windows binaries from the onset was screwed.

The same was with Litecoin. Almost everyone was mining on unoptimized miner until pooler published his optimized version. Scams everywhere.

Are you kidding me?  I was one of the first Tenebrix and Litecoin miners, and I mined with an AMD cluster.  Artforz just had trouble optimizing for Intel, so for a while AMD and Intel were neck and neck until pooler did some tricks with cache access and assembly to finally get the performance out of intel GPUs that everyone was expecting from them.  End of the day, a few months after Tenebrix was released you could finally mine with 60 KH/s on your Intel CPU as compared to 40 KH/s with Artforz' original code.  Whoop-de-doo, a 50% improvement.

Yet the Windows build gave me 60 KH/s while my Ubuntu build gave me 400 KH/s with my 2700K -- totally different story.

Anyway, who wants to buy some YAC?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 264
May 09, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
#72
In my opinion it is not the premine itself that is 'scammy'. It is many factors that weight in. But if a coin is premined, has rigged block reward and makes it to a marketplace in 48 hours... well. It it walks like a duck...

And here is some required reading

As soon as next retarget CNC will surpass feathercoin in value like a rocket.

Just BUY all the CNC you can get your hands on and you have a few 100% easy in a matter of hours or days.

I'm still bullish. Sold off enough to 'break even' at around 0.0035 and still sitting on 30k+ for the long haul. Either it will stagnate around 0.20-0.30 in a day or so, or it will take off. I don't see it going 'away' anytime soon with China just now becoming seriously interested in crypto currency. I can see if becoming the 'LTC of the far east' and if so, having a position is always nice if you are willing to take some risk.

I think you are setting your hopes too high for this one. The author went off the grid (hasn't posted in 3 days) and interest is waning. I find it hard to support when the author hasn't taken any initiative to promote services or participate in the community. It may well be a scamcoin.

I think the 'disappearance' could very well be a PR stunt though. Satoshi anyone?



Either all of them (bitcoin, litecoin included) are scams, or none are scams.

/petition to restrict the word "scam" to define actual scamming (i.e. send coins to newbie member, don't get anything back).
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