Topic: Them BFL Cowboys - page 6. (Read 14436 times)

How very nice of you to be so concerned with my financial well-being, that you would offer me your unsolicited advice.

Seriously, Fuck off and stop spamming these BFL threads. We get it already. You hate them. Josh said some mean words to you. You want everyone to refund so BFL will fail.

I think the difference josh is talking about is checking for physical/production flaws vs. design/logic flaws.

My definition of a working chip = working design.

Sorry but claws still in tact. Come again next time. 

It's obvious from the context that he's saying that this test isn't looking for defective chips, but to evaluate to make certain that the design itself works.

I think you need to sharpen your troll-claws smoothie, you're slipping.

Wrong again. AVALON has confirmed multiple shipped devices.

Likely more than were confirmed. I wouldn't post if I have a working ASIC from them.

But my point was that your comments are just rubbish based on no research or facts.

Here is Josh's logic fail ^

How can the chips be working if the design isn't correct? oh wait it's a technicality that no one even cares about. If the design or reason for the chips to be designed isnt working how it was intended then it doesn't work.

By BFL's own admission they do not know if the chip design works and if the specified SPEEDS they are selling products at on their website is in fact going to be realistic.

If you haven't tested anything (nor have a working prototype) with ASIC chips, then how would you be able to make estimates on hash power?

Here is my guess, which might not be that off:

A third and likely forth party relayed to BFL that they could get X amount of hashes/sec with said ASIC chips to be developed. Not looking at the possibility that the specified hash targets could be unrealistic for the time frame they thought "Damn we can make a ton of money being the FIRST ASIC distributor/developer/whatever you wanna call it".

If BFL had anything to tout that was real technology they would have already done it and Inaba/Josh would have been slamming everyone on this forum that he was right we are idiots.

Do you have preorders with BFL? My advice would be to cancel them, get your fiat back, buy bitcoins and hold for 6 months.

Much of what you are seeing on their website, ads, CES, etc....is a Dog and Pony show. Typical of people who do not have a 100% working product.

Their intentions may have been right when taking customer money, but because the goal was likely unrealistic to accomplish, the developers/engineers/ASIC team said to BFL whatever they wanted to hear in order to get the funding to do their "development".

I call it delaying and sweet talking. "oh yeah we SHOULD be done by X date...oh well things didnt go as planned wait another Y days/weeks....oh Joe Schmoe didn't get back to me about the Clock Buffers so I couldn't do anything....blah blah blah."

BFL and BitcoinASIC probably sourced their chips from the same place.

...uhh...they don't have an FPGA business. Nor have they for some time. That was part of the incentive for them to lie about their ASIC timetable, they effectively crippled the FPGA market which they were exiting anyway. Pretty slick.

Having worked for and managed several small businesses I can tell you that this doesn't seem strange to me at all. This really depends on how deep the pockets of the investors happen to be. How much venture capital was obtained over what period of time.

They're certainly going to generate millions in orders the first year after they ship. I personally am prepared to purchase a quarter million worth of rigs about a week after I see some 'in the wild' numbers on them. There must be others planning to do the same. How quickly I'm going to hand over that money or additional money really depends on real world numbers not projections.

Moving to a new location is an expense - it's dwarfed by the NRE of setting up asic production. In that you're correct. I couldn't comment on FPGA sales numbers... but I'd imagine that most of their operating costs have come from investor money. With the fpga sales money going to pay wages and costs of operating fpga business.

I don't find their ridiculous excuses for the delays to be at all credible and please don't get me started on comparing Van Riper to Vleisides.

While I agree with you about the shipping delays; the delays in themselves don't constitute a scam it mostly show poor project management / lack of experience in the field of making ASIC chips. In addition to showing their inconsistencies with dishonesty in previous shipping date promises and power consumption specs with their FPGA products, they did actually prove that they could build a pretty good FPGA bitcoin mining product with acceptable power specs (although not what they had promised; 4 times the power is bad but 80w v 34w is not a deal breaker for me). Like I said, I'm not 100% for all their actions but it's not like their CEO went on a drunk rampage telling people that the "asians" were going to take over the project. I understand that everyone's view is different but I personally don't believe BFL to be scammers; just kind of inexperienced at the whole ASIC / chip manufacturing gig. I'm very much hoping that they pull through it all (half because i'm slightly invested in the pre-orders)  mostly because it would be good for BTC and this community in general to see another ASIC manufacturer succeed. It would strengthen the base of bitcoin (the miners) and allow for a more stable BTC economy to be flourish (maintain a stable value for once).

Pardon? They've been lying about shipping dates for EIGHT MONTHS...how is that not a con? The evidence of their past endeavors indicates that they're dishonest about shipping dates and power consumption specs. Hey at least they're consistently dishonest though right?

The analogy is awful on every level. No payment until product ships, product isn't even scheduled to ship until May (2+ months into the future), and it only costs $80, half the least costly option BFL offers (1/5th the next step up, less 1/10th the most common option, etc.)

That said, I don't really have much to weigh in on the latest development. I'm not a customer, and I'm fairly glad I'm not, but I don't harbor any ill-will towards BFL, mostly just disappointment. ASICs were exciting and hopeful items to me, and now it all seems like so much scorched earth. I do hope that things turn around, and am excited for the time when everyone focuses on how awesome ASIC mining is. I hope BFL gets its' act together.

Wow what a bad analogy/comparison...

I'd say the reason there's no forum with people screaming blue murder is because the company you linked is not taking "FULL PAYMENT PRE-ORDERS"

Can you see the difference from a consumer POV from pre-ordering a product and not paying for it until its shipped vs full payment pre-orders?  if you need a hint its all in the amount of risk the consumer takes...

If their true intention was to con investors, such warnings would be valid and warranted. However based on the evidence of their past endeavours and in addition to bringing one of CGminer's core developers to actually visit their headquarters in KC; its highly unlikely that they would go through all that effort to con unsuspecting investors.

But you didn't get back the EXACT amount of BTC you paid.................so you LOST money,correct    

I did it. I'm sooooo lucky. So far I already have 300% profit for NOT having a BFL's ASIC!

You're furious now?  Seems like you've been "furious" for months Frizz. I love how you come here and pretend to be incensed by the latest thing everytime there's a latest thing.  What a tool.  You're just making a fool of yourself.

Well, to be fair, you may want to read the pre-order page:


Emphasis mine.