This forum is infested with scammers

b!z

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1010

Quote from: justusranvier on March 14, 2013, 07:20:21 PM

Add an interstitial warning page for those sections of the forum and require the user to type, "I understand that someone will attempt to attempt to scam me here." in a confirmation text box before proceeding.

I would definitely like to see something like this happen.

repentance

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

It's probably worth pointing out that we're likely to see more people default on BTC loans as the price keeps rising.

Matthew N. Wright

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet

Quote from: desired_username on March 19, 2013, 03:28:30 AM

Quote from: Brunic on March 18, 2013, 02:53:22 PM

Quote from: desired_username on March 18, 2013, 02:37:40 PM

I cannot even understand why are the forum owners allowing people to lend or borrow money? Not to mention the suspicious BTC funds appearing.

If these activities were banned then it would raise the quality of the forums surely.

I would like to add that the people who gets scammed on a forum partly deserves what she/he got. It's not wise to lend money on the internets or believe anything what a stranger offers (remember what your mom said about things like this) Tongue

Lending and borrowing money is a legal activity and Bitcoin is used as a currency. How are you supposed to develop an economy if you ban simple trading?

As for blaming the victims, it may be satisfying for the ego of some people and help them feel better about themselves, but it doesn't do anything productive. An economy is built on trust, and scammers simply destroy that trust/economy. We're looking to make the economy better, not make it worse.

No, lending and borrowing is not necessary. If you don't have money to do something then you shouldn't play with others funds. If you have a significant (worthwhile) project which needs funding then there are other ways to fund it (even with BTC).

The bitcoin economy is not equal to people doing shady businesses on this forum.

I understand what your message is believe it or not, but I have to disagree. Lending is necessary for the life of any economy. Think about what would happen if no one was allowed to borrow anything from anyone else. It gets out of hand if not managed responsibly (like most things), but borrowing isn't bad. Go read about the differences between"good debt" and "bad debt".

On a side note, lending BTC should only be done by people who are long BTC.

desired_username

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 1013

Quote from: Brunic on March 18, 2013, 02:53:22 PM

Quote from: desired_username on March 18, 2013, 02:37:40 PM

I cannot even understand why are the forum owners allowing people to lend or borrow money? Not to mention the suspicious BTC funds appearing.

If these activities were banned then it would raise the quality of the forums surely.

I would like to add that the people who gets scammed on a forum partly deserves what she/he got. It's not wise to lend money on the internets or believe anything what a stranger offers (remember what your mom said about things like this) Tongue

Lending and borrowing money is a legal activity and Bitcoin is used as a currency. How are you supposed to develop an economy if you ban simple trading?

As for blaming the victims, it may be satisfying for the ego of some people and help them feel better about themselves, but it doesn't do anything productive. An economy is built on trust, and scammers simply destroy that trust/economy. We're looking to make the economy better, not make it worse.

No, lending and borrowing is not necessary. If you don't have money to do something then you shouldn't play with others funds. If you have a significant (worthwhile) project which needs funding then there are other ways to fund it (even with BTC).

The bitcoin economy is not equal to people doing shady businesses on this forum.

Mike Christ

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

The scammer saturation on this forum is good enough. You absolutely need scammers to show people who not to deal with. Some people are going to lose money, and it's going to hurt, and they will learn from the mistake and others who witness it happen will learn from that person's mistake. It locks in who to trust, and who not to trust. Thus, trust is formed, and locks out the scammers. If nobody on this forum scammed, it would be INCREDIBLY easy for a potential scammer to get away with it. And it has happened. And people attempt to scam that way, and are unsuccessful.

Brunic

hero member

Activity: 632

Merit: 500

Quote from: desired_username on March 18, 2013, 02:37:40 PM

I cannot even understand why are the forum owners allowing people to lend or borrow money? Not to mention the suspicious BTC funds appearing.

If these activities were banned then it would raise the quality of the forums surely.

I would like to add that the people who gets scammed on a forum partly deserves what she/he got. It's not wise to lend money on the internets or believe anything what a stranger offers (remember what your mom said about things like this) Tongue

Lending and borrowing money is a legal activity and Bitcoin is used as a currency. How are you supposed to develop an economy if you ban simple trading?

As for blaming the victims, it may be satisfying for the ego of some people and help them feel better about themselves, but it doesn't do anything productive. An economy is built on trust, and scammers simply destroy that trust/economy. We're looking to make the economy better, not make it worse.

desired_username

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 1013

I cannot even understand why are the forum owners allowing people to lend or borrow money? Not to mention the suspicious BTC funds appearing.

If these activities were banned then it would raise the quality of the forums surely.

I would like to add that the people who gets scammed on a forum partly deserves what she/he got. It's not wise to lend money on the internets or believe anything what a stranger offers (remember what your mom said about things like this) Tongue

Brunic

hero member

Activity: 632

Merit: 500

Quote from: MAC on March 16, 2013, 07:36:19 PM

I really hate the amount of scammers here.
Am I wrong for assuming that it makes it harder for legitimate people to get loans?
A solution to this could be requiring ID checks.
Scammers will be only able to scam once.

MAC

Trendon Shavers aka Pirate is probably the guy on which we have the most information around here.

Quote from: Bitsky on March 16, 2013, 04:37:51 AM

I stayed away from Pirate for a long time, but at some point I decided to jump on too. Why? Mainly because of his #otc ratings and how this was supposed to help to protect one from scammers. Then many reported that they got paid, so whatever he did appeared to work to some degree. Of course there were warnings that it was probably a scam, but most of those ran similar projects so it wasn't easy to determine if those warnings were just part of a mud-fight. Also don't forget that Pirate met with a few of his investors face to face. Also I'm not sure if I was scammed by Pirate or paybtc.
Some might say that the promises were too good to be true; but look at the btc price development: from less than cents to around $45 now in 2+ years. People laughed at bitcoin at the beginning and said it's just a scam; but look at it right now.

Don't forget he was part-owner of GPUMax, a start-up similar to what Coinlab is trying to do. GPUMax was dominant in the mining market back then.

Shavers, even with his information, reputation and business on the line, still went on with the scam. It's just to show that some scammers are ready to lose a lot for their scam. There's no secret recipe against scammers, some will still be able to break the system. It's not a matter of "let's do that and problem solved". It's a job of constant vigilance and sharing of information.

Monster Tent

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: MAC on March 16, 2013, 07:36:19 PM

I really hate the amount of scammers here.
Am I wrong for assuming that it makes it harder for legitimate people to get loans?
A solution to this could be requiring ID checks.
Scammers will be only able to scam once.

MAC

Whats worse than losing a few coins t a scam ?

Handing over all your ID and now a scammer has it.

Im surprised people like Nefario who got peoples Id for glbse and btcjam havent taken out massive credit card debts on behalf of people who hand that over.

MAC

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

I really hate the amount of scammers here.
Am I wrong for assuming that it makes it harder for legitimate people to get loans?
A solution to this could be requiring ID checks.
Scammers will be only able to scam once.

MAC

BadBear

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1128

Quote from: Beepbop on March 16, 2013, 05:30:54 AM

WoT will empower the users to make more informed decisions about scammers, but I think we should retain the warning about ponzi schemes as well. A ponzi or pyramid scheme will have almost purely satisfied customers until the day that it collapses; there might be complaints about technical or customer service issues, but everyone who join will earn money on it until the last guys left holding the bag. The scheme will thus have a positive rating on WoT until the day it collapses.

Agreed.

Beepbop

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

WoT will empower the users to make more informed decisions about scammers, but I think we should retain the warning about ponzi schemes as well. A ponzi or pyramid scheme will have almost purely satisfied customers until the day that it collapses; there might be complaints about technical or customer service issues, but everyone who join will earn money on it until the last guys left holding the bag. The scheme will thus have a positive rating on WoT until the day it collapses.

BadBear

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1128

Quote from: Bitsky on March 16, 2013, 04:37:51 AM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 15, 2013, 06:01:46 PM

I was one of the persons who gave Pirate a +10 rating, along with a sarcastic comment, after the scheme collapsed. Just to show how useless the system was. Because the ratings were the main reason I trusted in him... ...the ratings and how everybody around here touted the BTC-otc ratings as something to be taken into account when dealing with other users.

Quote from: Herodes on March 15, 2013, 08:23:57 PM

Pirate had a large mouth, so did a lot of other scammers. They brag, boast, and flap their feather wings, because of their big egos. This is a very large big red sign. Everybody should learn that. Not saying that the attention-seeking loud talkers are all scammers, but it seems like they very frequently is. At the same time, a lot of people get duped by all that hoopla. I hope it serves as an education for those who got fooled, and that they're more careful in the future.

The bitcoin-otc system is not foolproof, and I would not trust it blindly, I would do my own investigations before dealing with somebody, and I have turned down trades with users that have good ratings, simply because they could not provide some reasonable amount of information that I was asking for. I don't care whether they think I was just too paranoid, or whether they were scammers and were afraid of getting caught with their pants down. Either way, the end result was that I wasn't scammed.

No matter how much of a great trust rating Pirate had, I would've never done any deals with him, because I do not trust people that are jumping up and down, and handwaiving with excitement constantly.

Flamboyant egomaniacs are to be avoided at all costs.

I stayed away from Pirate for a long time, but at some point I decided to jump on too. Why? Mainly because of his #otc ratings and how this was supposed to help to protect one from scammers. Then many reported that they got paid, so whatever he did appeared to work to some degree. Of course there were warnings that it was probably a scam, but most of those ran similar projects so it wasn't easy to determine if those warnings were just part of a mud-fight. Also don't forget that Pirate met with a few of his investors face to face. Also I'm not sure if I was scammed by Pirate or paybtc.
Some might say that the promises were too good to be true; but look at the btc price development: from less than cents to around $45 now in 2+ years. People laughed at bitcoin at the beginning and said it's just a scam; but look at it right now.

The current scammer tag doesn't protect against long cons either. I think a WoT system is still better in the end. There may be fake ratings, but there are still signs usually pointing to that. A bunch of ratings on a new account from new accounts isn't gonna mean much, and they will have to use new accounts since accounts that rate a lot of people who turn out to be scammers won't be as trusted as others.

Bitsky

hero member

Activity: 576

Merit: 514

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 15, 2013, 06:01:46 PM

I was one of the persons who gave Pirate a +10 rating, along with a sarcastic comment, after the scheme collapsed. Just to show how useless the system was. Because the ratings were the main reason I trusted in him... ...the ratings and how everybody around here touted the BTC-otc ratings as something to be taken into account when dealing with other users.

Quote from: Herodes on March 15, 2013, 08:23:57 PM

Pirate had a large mouth, so did a lot of other scammers. They brag, boast, and flap their feather wings, because of their big egos. This is a very large big red sign. Everybody should learn that. Not saying that the attention-seeking loud talkers are all scammers, but it seems like they very frequently is. At the same time, a lot of people get duped by all that hoopla. I hope it serves as an education for those who got fooled, and that they're more careful in the future.

The bitcoin-otc system is not foolproof, and I would not trust it blindly, I would do my own investigations before dealing with somebody, and I have turned down trades with users that have good ratings, simply because they could not provide some reasonable amount of information that I was asking for. I don't care whether they think I was just too paranoid, or whether they were scammers and were afraid of getting caught with their pants down. Either way, the end result was that I wasn't scammed.

No matter how much of a great trust rating Pirate had, I would've never done any deals with him, because I do not trust people that are jumping up and down, and handwaiving with excitement constantly.

Flamboyant egomaniacs are to be avoided at all costs.

I stayed away from Pirate for a long time, but at some point I decided to jump on too. Why? Mainly because of his #otc ratings and how this was supposed to help to protect one from scammers. Then many reported that they got paid, so whatever he did appeared to work to some degree. Of course there were warnings that it was probably a scam, but most of those ran similar projects so it wasn't easy to determine if those warnings were just part of a mud-fight. Also don't forget that Pirate met with a few of his investors face to face. Also I'm not sure if I was scammed by Pirate or paybtc.
Some might say that the promises were too good to be true; but look at the btc price development: from less than cents to around $45 now in 2+ years. People laughed at bitcoin at the beginning and said it's just a scam; but look at it right now.

instaBoost

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Tomatocage on March 14, 2013, 07:08:47 PM

Please raise the bar for posting in Lending/Goods/Currency Exchange.

Maybe even prohibit exchange deals in Newbies.

I thought this was already the case?

dust

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

paraipan

legendary

Activity: 924

Merit: 1004

Firstbits: 1pirata

Quote from: repentance on March 15, 2013, 10:40:05 PM

Quote from: paraipan on March 15, 2013, 10:19:43 PM

From what I got, from nanotube himself, the channel bot doesn't give voice to people who have a negative rating on a direct path to its "master", nanotube, so "pigeons" or "vragnaroda" have direct ratings with him. Also he said he can't remove the votes not to tamper the rating system, and no positive vote from him either, so I'm effectively muted on the OTC.

This happened only for speaking out loud on Bitcoinica and warning people 1 month before they went down.

How many people associated with GLBSE also have positive OTC ratings?

Pits me, none I hope.

repentance

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: paraipan on March 15, 2013, 10:19:43 PM

From what I got, from nanotube himself, the channel bot doesn't give voice to people who have a negative rating on a direct path to its "master", nanotube, so "pigeons" or "vragnaroda" have direct ratings with him. Also he said he can't remove the votes not to tamper the rating system, and no positive vote from him either, so I'm effectively muted on the OTC.

This happened only for speaking out loud on Bitcoinica and warning people 1 month before they went down.

How many people associated with GLBSE also have positive OTC ratings?

paraipan

legendary

Activity: 924

Merit: 1004

Firstbits: 1pirata

Quote from: Raoul Duke on March 15, 2013, 10:05:37 PM

Quote from: paraipan on March 15, 2013, 10:00:44 PM

OTC is kind of useless, look with what I've been living with from the times of bitcoinica...

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=paraipan

Never traded with them but still got the neg votes. Can't even talk on bitcoin-otc for this reason :/

Why? They removed your voice because of the negative votes?
I still see an overall positive rating.

From what I got, from nanotube himself, the channel bot doesn't give voice to people who have a negative rating on a direct path to its "master", nanotube, so "pigeons" or "vragnaroda" have direct ratings with him. Also he said he can't remove the votes not to tamper the rating system, and no positive vote from him either, so I'm effectively muted on the OTC.

This happened only for speaking out loud on Bitcoinica and warning people 1 month before they went down.

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: paraipan on March 15, 2013, 10:00:44 PM

OTC is kind of useless, look with what I've been living with from the times of bitcoinica...

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=paraipan

Never traded with them but still got the neg votes. Can't even talk on bitcoin-otc for this reason :/

Why? They removed your voice because of the negative votes?
I still see an overall positive rating.

Topic: This forum is infested with scammers (Read 3928 times)