In light of the recent plunge (a half-baked theory):
1. The massive sell-off was planned
a) Bitstamp (among others) has been fighting an entire year of slowly decreasing BTC prices. Although transaction volumes were increasing in 2014, coin value was steadily in decline. While they were making money on trading volume, the decreasing value in BTC was costing them a lot of money in sell offs, much of which was used prior to buy over inflated coins by Bitstamp.
b) In an effort to front run an engineered drop in price, 19,000+ BTC valued between ~$300-$1100 were 'stolen.' Me thinks the average price per coin was closer to $600/$800 that Bitstamp paid.
c) Price plummets and Bitstamp buys back 'lost' 19,000+ BTC at reduced price.
d) Steady increase in price in the months to follow or at least some short term positive price movement AKA Bitstamp recovers from insolvency/greedy hedging bets made in 2014.
Just a thought.
Topic: This is really fucked up (Read 2298 times)
No, I meant 'ensures'.
Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.
Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.
Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.
Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306
I agree with you about the potential for Bitcoin. In a perfect world, it would be the only currency that makes sense. However, it simply cannot survive the onslaught of scammers, ignorant users, online security issues, and bad publicity currently prevalent. 2015 is already starting off worse than 2014. Combine the fact that there's still a few hundred thousand BTC waiting to be dumped, the Silk Road trial (which will bring negative light to the industry during it's entire run), infighting amongst developers, disagreement within the foundation, and a community literally overrun with fraud - and nothing looks positive.
There's also the fact that it now costs much more to mine a Bitcoin than it's worth, and those mining companies who make up the bulk of the network hash rate are now being pressured to dump every coin they mint. They have USD backed loans that need to be paid.
We are not in a good spot, at all.
finex has amazing volume stats, must have picked up some customers from bitstamp after the hack.
There were 45k bitcoins traded on bitfinex in less than an hour during the big crash this morning. That's definitely not normal and I don't think dumping that many coins is sustainable. That's almost the amount of silk road bitcoins sold at the last auction, and those were not all dumped by the auction winners within the same hour.
I think the bitcoin will pump after the next block reward halving , at the moment there isn't a reason for a pump ( I'm realistic and this is my opinion).
I don't know "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.
Well I remember reading the same about DOGE and nothing happened with the famous havling. Of course DOGE isn't BTC but just saying. I don't know "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.
I think the bitcoin will pump after the next block reward halving , at the moment there isn't a reason for a pump ( I'm realistic and this is my opinion).
I don't know "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.
I don't know "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.
No, really.
Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.
Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.
Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.
PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.
Like I said before, Bitcoin was never supossed to depend on centralized exchanges and payment systems like Bitpay, but think... no one forced people to put their money there and support these. People wanted a way to daytrade and they, freely, agreed to fund and support such exchanges. Serves them well for trusting them and not waiting for p2p exchange technology to be available, but guess what, no one ever forced them to put their money there. It was a free decission, so at the end of the day, the core of Bitcoin is free market and they freely funded these projects, so yes, deal with it, this is free market, including shitty audiences, centralizing projects and all, the core is all working under Bitcoin which is free, so deal with it, you can't cherry pick what is and isnt freemarket. Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.
Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.
Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.
PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
What is wrong with the people on this forum? Someone enlighten me, please!
No, I meant 'ensures'.
Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.
Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.
Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.
Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306
I agree with you about the potential for Bitcoin. In a perfect world, it would be the only currency that makes sense. However, it simply cannot survive the onslaught of scammers, ignorant users, online security issues, and bad publicity currently prevalent. 2015 is already starting off worse than 2014. Combine the fact that there's still a few hundred thousand BTC waiting to be dumped, the Silk Road trial (which will bring negative light to the industry during it's entire run), infighting amongst developers, disagreement within the foundation, and a community literally overrun with fraud - and nothing looks positive.
There's also the fact that it now costs much more to mine a Bitcoin than it's worth, and those mining companies who make up the bulk of the network hash rate are now being pressured to dump every coin they mint. They have USD backed loans that need to be paid.
We are not in a good spot, at all.
No, I meant 'ensures'.
Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.
Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.
Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.
Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306
More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
No, really.
Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.
Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.
Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.
PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.
Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.
Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.
Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.
PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.
The botto will be zero dollar , it is obviously. However i low price is good because a lot of people will buy some bitcoin.
...
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course.
Yup.
Safer? Not even remotely.
A couple very different things going on. User-end wallet security, or custodial wallet security/insurance are in their infancy. Part of the problem here is that bitcoin got too much mainstream attention too early. Too many idiots stumbled into the ecosystem before adequate idiot-proofing had been developed. We'll get there; a lot of work has been done fast - from multisig, to standard 2FA, to hardware wallets.
FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking.
You meant "insures" not "ensures".
But make no mistake that FDIC insurance is somehow free. It's very costly; banks pay the premiums, which get passed on to customers in the form of fees, and furthermore, if/when the reserve isn't enough to meet losses (2008/09 anyone?) the losses are socialized (taxes and/or inflation).
Obviously you're arguing that that's better than the *current* custodial situation in bitcoin, which it may be, but again this stuff is getting rapidly better, to the point where socializing bank losses shouldn't be the optimal solution anymore.
This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies.
What's new.... Bernie Madoff, MF Global, Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc.
If it's worse in bitcoin, a big part of that, again, is infancy of the ecosystem. Meta orgs (DATA, etc) are forming. Takes years.
Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.
Indeed, you shouldn't've mentioned it, cuz it doesn't matter to the points you're making, or to the ultimate viability of the system. As I (and Satoshi, incidentally) have argued, yes nodes and farms will consolidate, but meaningful decentralization should be retained over time.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
Actually, it's greatest strength is algorithmically limiting the human element.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Don't forget plausable deniability of ownership and bail-in proof.
More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.
...
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge. Faster and cheaper? Of course.
Yup.
Safer? Not even remotely.
A couple very different things going on. User-end wallet security, or custodial wallet security/insurance are in their infancy. Part of the problem here is that bitcoin got too much mainstream attention too early. Too many idiots stumbled into the ecosystem before adequate idiot-proofing had been developed. We'll get there; a lot of work has been done fast - from multisig, to standard 2FA, to hardware wallets.
FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking.
You meant "insures" not "ensures".
But make no mistake that FDIC insurance is somehow free. It's very costly; banks pay the premiums, which get passed on to customers in the form of fees, and furthermore, if/when the reserve isn't enough to meet losses (2008/09 anyone?) the losses are socialized (taxes and/or inflation).
Obviously you're arguing that that's better than the *current* custodial situation in bitcoin, which it may be, but again this stuff is getting rapidly better, to the point where socializing bank losses shouldn't be the optimal solution anymore.
This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies.
What's new.... Bernie Madoff, MF Global, Enron, Worldcom, etc, etc.
If it's worse in bitcoin, a big part of that, again, is infancy of the ecosystem. Meta orgs (DATA, etc) are forming. Takes years.
Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.
Indeed, you shouldn't've mentioned it, cuz it doesn't matter to the points you're making, or to the ultimate viability of the system. As I (and Satoshi, incidentally) have argued, yes nodes and farms will consolidate, but meaningful decentralization should be retained over time.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
Actually, it's greatest strength is algorithmically limiting the human element.
Let's ask ourselves, who's buying the coins? The mining co-ops are dumping them like crazy.
If one is to believe the willy bot story, then the price ride up is completely fake and without much merit - fake buy generated by the bot causing Gox to go up which in turn leads other exchanges to go up as some try to arb the difference. Just as the bot is operating, the Chinese jump in which fuels the fire.
The Chinese are now quitting the market to play their own stock market, miners are still dumping; if the latest drop in price freaks out the VC - I don't think that would be case though, then you still got another shoe to drop and A LOT LOWER TO GO. Btw, you still have $15 million USD on BFX that is buying coins on leverage which represents 85k BTC at current level.
If one is to believe the willy bot story, then the price ride up is completely fake and without much merit - fake buy generated by the bot causing Gox to go up which in turn leads other exchanges to go up as some try to arb the difference. Just as the bot is operating, the Chinese jump in which fuels the fire.
The Chinese are now quitting the market to play their own stock market, miners are still dumping; if the latest drop in price freaks out the VC - I don't think that would be case though, then you still got another shoe to drop and A LOT LOWER TO GO. Btw, you still have $15 million USD on BFX that is buying coins on leverage which represents 85k BTC at current level.
More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.
Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
I am on my third bank card in a year, but I still have bitcoins from 2011. If you do your job and secure your coins they are very safe from thieves.
Bitcoin is as safe as it's user is tech-savvy. It's pretty hard for the masses to understand how to secure them properly and what NOT to do and why (ie, not keeping them on a freakin website)
LOL is this the real Bitstamp dump or what?
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