Topic: This is why the price of bitcoin is dropping - page 2. (Read 5010 times)

Well, I will look more into this, just to increase my knowledge.

franky1 - Calm down man, not all of us, are clued up with every method to do things in bitcoins.

I used a private before, and got burned. I Also used localbitcoin and nearly got scammed. {Trust system was pushed by the guys friends and fake accounts}

So it's not a straight forward alternative to exchanges, when you still new, like I was then.

Thanks for you inputs, it help to have people give as many opinions and sharing experience to help other people and the community.

lol no...
simply, no..

large majority of people on localbitcoins are not selling at a loss. and for the couple people putting in stupidly low orders because they are sheep following an exchange. they deserve the losses they are making

well then carry on being sheep, and follow crappy exchanges. just dont complain about it

But the localbitcoins dont have much different prices. The people prices are updated there much slower, but they follow the exchange prices with some delay

Well, if we ignore exchanges, and they only use exchanges to determine the price, posted on webpages, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

These exchanges promote their services VERY well, and are normally the first thing people look for when they want to buy bitcoin.

When you want to buy BTC you know nothing about these other sites, you simply know about an exchange, because it's being used in fiat everywhere.

So it's a familiar concept. If I tell people to go buy privately from some stranger, they will laugh at me, the same for some unknown site, they have never seen before, that are selling BTC for a higher price, that are on offer from exchanges.

BUT I see what you saying. They should promote the BETTER options other than exchanges better IMO.

1. stop giving a damned crap about the crappy exchange prices
2. only trade on localbitcoins based on your costs and demand (never sell at a loss)
3. DONT base your localbitcoin valuations on the exchange movements
4. STOP GIVING A DAMNED CRAP ABOUT CRAPPY EXCHANGES
5. if you have coins on crappy exchanges NEVER EVER EVER SELL AT A LOSS.
6. if you have coins on an exchange GET THEM OUT

they may seem like repeats of the same points. but thats becaus the solution is easy, but still requires explaining multiple times to get into peoples heads.

if your trading for profit then play with the bitcoin/altcoins leave the btc/fiat for the people wanting real bitcoin/real fiat.


i know, and thats why we should be ignoring crappy exchanges. the only true value trading is on private swaps, bitcoin-otc and localbitcoins. where proper real bitcoins are swapped for real bank account amounts.. no mysql database involvement to manipulate

So what would counter this?

Price manipulation like this, is hurting new Bitcoin business innovators now, for the temporary gain of a few profits on exchanges.

Satoshi got fed up with banks and financial institutions doing this, and he/they/she created the bitcoin protocol to counter them, now they doing the same with bitcoin on these exchanges.

How FU is that?

Thanks for the tip KenJackson. Will order that book now.

@ topic:

i agree with you that i would buy bitcoin now.

but i dont think the market is down for that reason dude. the 2 ETFs are launching in 6-20 months maybe. alot of time.


@franky1

good point

you guys are forming opinions without even looking at volume levels or order histories,

most of the exchanges are playing with bots with multiple orders of just 0.011btc (under $4) & 0.0212 and a wall order usually around 200 coins max.
(these order amounts have not changed in a few weeks, its the same couple 'players' that are messing with prices)

the mega mines and whales are not even touching the crappy exchanges.(the majority is sold directly and privately)

hardly any coin is actually related to a proper bank deposit/withdrawal, its simple shrimp and small fish playing around with numbers on a website, not trading to enter or exit btc/fiat.

will you sheeple stop valuing bitcoins 13milion coin cap based on mysql database movements of 200 coins. when ETF's open, with their requirements to keep accurate accounting and transparency, you will see true value indicators return, but right now localbitcoins due to it being direct real fiat for bitcoin trading is the closest thing.

and lastly if your going to trade on localbitcoins, trade on numbers based on cost of mining, and based on the average price demand of localbitcoins. DO NOT continue to be sheeple and follow the exchanges.

its literally turning into mtgox december-january where little to none deposits or withdrawals were occuring and people soon learned to ignore mtgox when it tanked to $100 whilst everyone else was trading at $450-$650

Not necessarily. You can already sell bitcoins without even having a single satoshi. To do that you can use margin deposits and leverage - 1:2, 1:5 or 1:10. In other words you can place $10K in one such exchange and sell bitcoins worth $100K without having a single satoshi. If you meet somebody on the street that tries to sell you something they don't have undoubtedly you'll call them crooks and swindlers, but in the nowadays "regulated" financial world such crooks and swindlers are blessed as "liquidity providers"...

Another way of doing the same is by using the newly (hastily) licensed bitcoin swap exchanges like TerraExchange. You swap your dollars for bitcoins for a certain period at predetermined exchange rates. But why would you want to have bitcoins for 6 or 12 months instead of dollars? The only reason is to sell them hoping to buy them back with a profit when time comes to pay them back. But make no mistake, the final result of such swaps (profit or loss) is always cleared in $.

This is nothing new. Such price suppression schemes are applied to gold, silver, oil for a long long time. What happens if price doesn't want to go lower? You simply increase the leverage or margin collateral! That is why the leverage in the derivatives portfolio of big banks is currently at record levels! What happens if increasing leverage and margin collateral still doesn't work and you make a loss? Well, Fed or ECB or BOE or whatever central bank print additional money only for you at zero interest rate or even at negative (ECB). They are the too-big-to-fail guys and their cronies. For them bitcoin price is just a joke to play with...

Makes sense. Any other supporting facts to backup your prediction? If that's the case we should see a rebound pretty soon. The only thing I doubt is that btc market cap is too huge to be manipulated

When it comes to market, there is no such thing as manipulation.

Big players can get price to go up or down since they have a great deal of money, but this shouldn't be considered price manipulation.

This topic, like the trillions of others posted in the non-Speculation subforums, is why the price of bitcoin is dropping. Fuck's sake.

GenTarkin.... great post.  Although I hope its the megamines that shut off all their inefficient shit and just run with all the new stuff.  The smalltime miners will keep running at a loss (I mine with about 5 th/s, I'll absorb the power costs until the blockchain explodes if I have to).

I think a lot of small time miners feel the same.  Whats an extra $30-200 on their bimonthly power bill anyway?  Unless the amount of bitcoin I mine is equal to peanuts, I'm going to keep running even if it costs me more in power.  I hope people with similar amounts of hashing power feel the same.  People running full nodes and mining on small pools and p2pools have a desire for a healthy market.  I hope they endure.  I will.

I totally agree with you. this price scarcity is completely planned.so how the Bitcoin community counter it,that's the question. Well for most of us,the answer is simple,we buy in or preserve our Bitcoin and when the price pick up, we sell. My question is,"IS THAT GOOD FOR BITCOIN COMMUNITY? "

BitSpeculate?  Interesting.

Actually, ETFs BIT and COIN will be available from any stock broker.  Schwab, Fidelity, Ameritrade, Scottrade, etc.  The point is to allow pedestrians to get the benefit of bitcoin's volatility without having a CoinBase, BTCe or other account.  They'll not only be able to buy bitcoins as shares, but also sell short and buy and sell options.


There doesn't need to be news.  It's all in motion--they're just waiting on the SEC to shuffle papers.  But while they wait, don't you think they're at least tempted to dump a little?

Interesting theory about the miner panic.


That's a different topic, but I don't think it will take 10 years.  Six years at most, but probably next year.  I recommend a fascinating book on that topic: The Death of the Dollar.

I highly doubt thats the reason OP....


There hasnt been news on ETF's in months now... at least that Ive seen. Correct me if Im wrong.

I think its panic sellers & megamines dumping which Im fine with. Once we hit around $200 many miners, small time, medium farms & small farms will start powering down their crap. Once that happens its lower diffs for all of us. Expect this to happen even moreso once we hit sub $200 down to $100, it will be glorious.
Asic production will come to a halt & manufacturers will have dried up substantially under $100 ... the way it should be.

Bitcoin has a long road ahead of it at this point. The foundation is still being laid for adoption & general use.
The way I see it, we are just finished w/ the .com bubble of Bitcoin, now begins the true growth which is longer but more mature.

That is, unless USD completely implodes on itself in the next year taking out other major world currencies with it, then Bitcoin will easily hit the moon for that reason alone.
But, I have a feeling USD will take another 10 years, at least, before it reaches that.

So, heres to keeping the faith in Bitcoin alive as we enter its next era of true innovation 'beneath the radar' of press & hype and all this bullshit weve seen this year.

Yeah? And how are they going to manipulate a market they are yet not participating?

they will be traded on my stock exchange at https://BitSpeculate.com .. we already offer a Bitcoin hedge fund AND a cryptocurrency hedge fund