Topic: Thoughts about premining/superblocks? Here's my $0.02... (Read 5112 times)
Thanks guys for all of your input. After much thought, I think the right way to go about it is to not premine at all. I like how coins like digitalcoin operate -- how they have to rely on the community for donations. It's a gamble, but chances are if your own community doesn't support you, the coin doesn't have any long-term prospects. It's a gamble that I'm willing to take.
Hm.
The community is against any pre-mine whatsoever. The Nugget (also in development I think) plans to take a cut once a coin is mined. That said I'm not against super blocks, but you don't want them too high otherwise you'll draw the wrong kind of attention. In my opinion it's going to depend on how you treat the smaller miners.
The community is against any pre-mine whatsoever. The Nugget (also in development I think) plans to take a cut once a coin is mined. That said I'm not against super blocks, but you don't want them too high otherwise you'll draw the wrong kind of attention. In my opinion it's going to depend on how you treat the smaller miners.
Zas, do you have any links about the Nugget?
It's funny, people are against pre mines, yet my coin, for example, is alive and well, solely because I have been able to do huge give aways, and pay bounties for services to be created for it. Like any product or commodity, you need a starting capital....
you have a coin?
Anyone who has a problem with a small pre mine, has never coded and released a coin. Period.
Guess Satoshi never coded or released a coin.
SHA3 isn't even out yet >.<; I'll take a look into scrypt jane though thanks!
Isnt Copperlark Sha3?
Yes, it is.
SHA3 isn't even out yet >.<; I'll take a look into scrypt jane though thanks!
Isnt Copperlark Sha3?
Zas, I see your point about the astronomical rise in difficulty from early mining, and how it could turn off latecomers. The question is whether or not the coin is designed to reward early adopters or make it somewhat fair for relatively late adopters.
I like digitalcoin's fair launch policy, how the reward per block starts at 2 and works its way up to 20 at blocks > 8640. Early adopters would still be able to amass a number of coins but since it wouldn't be at full subsidy, my thoughts would be that difficulty wouldn't spike as fast until it reaches the full rewards per block. But by that time, the coin would be been released for a few days, giving more people opportunity to start mining it while the difficulty is low.
Like Hydroponica says, the more people that have possession of the coin, the more invested they are in it.
Thoughts?
I like digitalcoin's fair launch policy, how the reward per block starts at 2 and works its way up to 20 at blocks > 8640. Early adopters would still be able to amass a number of coins but since it wouldn't be at full subsidy, my thoughts would be that difficulty wouldn't spike as fast until it reaches the full rewards per block. But by that time, the coin would be been released for a few days, giving more people opportunity to start mining it while the difficulty is low.
Like Hydroponica says, the more people that have possession of the coin, the more invested they are in it.
Thoughts?
I guess superblocks are good for early starting miners, but I don't see the advantage to be honest. If you're there early then you'll be able to get the blocks quickly enough anyway because fewer people will be around. It's really the same problem with the difficulty except a different way of doing it.
better way, would be to start the superblocks further into the block chain, say around 10,000 blocks or so, otherwise, your just giving bot nets and huge, lownlatency miners, millions of easy coins. Diff will be higher, and, they will spread out more evenly. A pool may even be setup quicker. See, the main goal, for a coin starting out, is to have a lot of people, will a nice bit of your coin in their wallet, rather than a select few, holding a majority of the coins. The more people who have your coin, the more people who are invested in it, and want to be able to trade it. The mob rules, as they say
I guess superblocks are good for early starting miners, but I don't see the advantage to be honest. If you're there early then you'll be able to get the blocks quickly enough anyway because fewer people will be around. It's really the same problem with the difficulty except a different way of doing it.
Depends on how small. My problem is more the difficulty. Premines usually raise the difficulty be default and most tend abuse the damn system. To be perfectly honest you could pre-mine one coin and simply divide it into smaller and smaller pieces. I'm not sure if anyone would begrudge one coin which is usually a very small amount of coins from the total, not 20 - 30% of the total pool.
That said, there are 'other' ways of recouping money which also have their own advantages and disadvantages. Most pre-mine coins appear to fail the moment the miners realize what's been going on. I guess it depends on the openness of the developers and how they interact with the mining community.
That said, there are 'other' ways of recouping money which also have their own advantages and disadvantages. Most pre-mine coins appear to fail the moment the miners realize what's been going on. I guess it depends on the openness of the developers and how they interact with the mining community.
agree. 1 to 2% is a fair amount, I think. My pre mine was less than 1%. It's very complicaTed to change the starting diff. Having an starting block reward of 0 and slowly ramping up to full block
ward is the best way to do it. And, super blocks, are just dumb
Depends on how small. My problem is more the difficulty. Premines usually raise the difficulty be default and most tend abuse the damn system. To be perfectly honest you could pre-mine one coin and simply divide it into smaller and smaller pieces. I'm not sure if anyone would begrudge one coin which is usually a very small amount of coins from the total, not 20 - 30% of the total pool.
That said, there are 'other' ways of recouping money which also have their own advantages and disadvantages. Most pre-mine coins appear to fail the moment the miners realize what's been going on. I guess it depends on the openness of the developers and how they interact with the mining community.
That said, there are 'other' ways of recouping money which also have their own advantages and disadvantages. Most pre-mine coins appear to fail the moment the miners realize what's been going on. I guess it depends on the openness of the developers and how they interact with the mining community.
Anyone who has a problem with a small pre mine, has never coded and released a coin. Period.
sha3 isnt out yet but its going to be keccak
SHA3 isn't even out yet >.<; I'll take a look into scrypt jane though thanks!
sha3 or scrypt jane? make the n of scrypt jane lower than 1024 i think so it wont be gpu mineable
not really, have it high enough to stop instamining, but not so high that smalltime miners cant mine, OR do a better one and move away from scrypt to something that isnt gpu mineable yet
Lemme know if there is one!
It's funny, people are against pre mines, yet my coin, for example, is alive and well, solely because I have been able to do huge give aways, and pay bounties for services to be created for it. Like any product or commodity, you need a starting capital....
You wouldn't need that if you could discourage the larger miners from insta mining. The reason why you have pick up is because you have provided a back door to allow more people to take part. It's not really a solution to the problem that you're acting effectively as a central bank.
^mastercoin
It's funny, people are against pre mines, yet my coin, for example, is alive and well, solely because I have been able to do huge give aways, and pay bounties for services to be created for it. Like any product or commodity, you need a starting capital....
Your coin being?
It's funny, people are against pre mines, yet my coin, for example, is alive and well, solely because I have been able to do huge give aways, and pay bounties for services to be created for it. Like any product or commodity, you need a starting capital....
Great points guys.
vinne81, I agree with you regarding the need for contributions to services. That's something coin developers fail to grasp. Without integration into these services, new coins will fall flat if adoption doesn't pick up early on.
So to ammend my $0.02, the vested "stock" idea would apply to individual contributors such as developers and others that contribute to the growth of the coin. Direct contributions would be made to services to spur integration and adoption. There's more detail that needs to be hashed out for certain cases, but that's a start.
What's the general consensus for the public ledger idea to help with transparency? My hope is that the public ledger + vested "stock" idea would build trust through transparency.
vinne81, I agree with you regarding the need for contributions to services. That's something coin developers fail to grasp. Without integration into these services, new coins will fall flat if adoption doesn't pick up early on.
So to ammend my $0.02, the vested "stock" idea would apply to individual contributors such as developers and others that contribute to the growth of the coin. Direct contributions would be made to services to spur integration and adoption. There's more detail that needs to be hashed out for certain cases, but that's a start.
What's the general consensus for the public ledger idea to help with transparency? My hope is that the public ledger + vested "stock" idea would build trust through transparency.
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