Topic: To the people who only see the downsides of HODLing Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 1255 times)

I'm not sure. As a matter of fact, "investors" and "utility" or "use cases" might not go well together in a single sentence. If you invest in Bitcoin, that means you are mainly after ROI or profit. I've personally known individuals who have invested in Bitcoin but don't have an inkling as to what makes it a revolutionary currency.

Many investors don't even agree that Bitcoin is money. They invested in a Bitcoin ETF and yet they don't agree that it is a currency. How can we, then, say that these people care about utility and use cases? They don't agree with Satoshi, they don't share the fundamental philosophy of Bitcoin, they aren't even in favor of decentralization, and so on and yet they invested in Bitcoin. They only care about making money. 

I think of it as a compromise. Bitcoin as it is today, has the same degree of (de)centralization if you're considering LN or not. Practicality-wise, I think LN is the step in the right direction and as far as the moving goalpost goes, we're making steps with Taproot, Schnorr, etc. Accepting the status quo seems to be the loser mentality.
Well, to solve the Byzantines General problem for a P2P system without a trusted intermediary. That is the primary goal, and you can derive decentralization and/or censorship-resistant (arguably depending on how people perceive fungibility), etc. Censorship-resistance is indeed not the primary focus. However, that is not why you're spending your Bitcoins, that defeats the most basic and fundamental purpose of it. Using it to pay for a cup of coffee is already leveraging on its biggest utility; peer to peer payment. I'd be more worried if people think they shouldn't use Bitcoin as a currency for their daily spendings.

Sure, I guess neither of us are not acknowledging the actual utility of Bitcoin. I guess the utility of Bitcoin really isn't to be able to pay for my cup of coffee  . Nitpicking to only use Bitcoin in specific scenarios is quite strange, but that is also up to you. I'm not going to argue with you on that  . I'll continue on my way of DCAing and spending Bitcoins as and when possible.

I see Bitcoin as a currency, not as a precious asset. If you think of Bitcoin as something that everyone should just hold, then that's up to you. Common consensus is that Bitcoin is often termed as a "currency", "money", etc.

I guess that's up to you. HODLing has infact been established as such and I'm not going to dispute that definition. Bitcoin would never be this valuable if companies or the population never saw it as a currency that they can spend in the future. I'm not going to lose out to be a billionaire if I'm spending my $5 bucks in BTC on lunch, opportunity cost is quite low actually.

I rest my case. Doesn't seem like this topic is going anywhere if you're so insistent on not spending your BTC 

But on a technical level, to make it actually scale - meaning increasing throughput without sacrificing decentralization, it's not that simple. Do you actually believe Bitcoin can compete against the U.S. Dollar in facilitating coffee-transactions? Let's be practical and accept what Bitcoin currently is today.


Are you sure? Because what is Bitcoin using POW for? Why waste all that energy? Why the incentive structure?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is no mere consumer product for payment processing.


Perhaps you're right, but Bitcoin is OK too, and it has more adoption/network effects that Monero will NEVER EVER reach.


Who is not acknowledging the actual utility of Bitcoin, not me. I'm merely saying not to waste your precious coins and that it's probably better to wait to use it until completely necessary. Although it depends from situation to situation. If you earn your Bitcoin in Bitcoin as a salary, then if you need to spend/sell it to buy what you need, then OK.


No, I don't agree. In 10 years many people who spent their precious Bitcoins today, will be regretting the mistake of wasting a very valuable resource. I will wait until the price is on a seven digit valuation, and when the Lightning Network has enough liquidity and reliability to be used for "coffee-transactions".

But the ultimate goal is also profit, if bitcoin is stable and has no price fluctuations and it is only used as a peer-to-peer currency. I bet you that not too many people will be interested in bitcoin and hold on to it for long, and it will not be able to achieve the achievements it has today.
Many people say they are interested in bitcoin because it is decentralized, giving them increased privacy...but if you notice they like to discuss its price volatility, rarely discussing its utility or the use case of bitcoin. That shows that price and profit are still their top concerns. Therefore, we do not need to criticize others for being greedy when they only care about profits and do not care about the utility of bitcoin. Everyone has different needs and preferences, we should respect each other's decisions.

Definitely, that's why they said bitcoin is for the Common man. It shouldn't be something that is too hard to use or Invest in, but some people are still hard heartened and doubtful to invest. even as it has proven to be the best digital asset so far.

Why won't they talk seriously about bitcoin or invest on it why they have seen the importance of it. Of course they have now seen the possible outcome after so many years of doubt and yet Bitcoin proved itself beyond reasonable doubt by growing faster than they least expect. Obviously bitcoin is the best digital asset anyone can think of right now, and I guess this rich folks has massively regretted why they didn't invest when it was less than a Dolla.

Well, the serious investors do care about the utility and use cases and that's why they're holding Bitcoin for so long so they can earn enough profits from it. You're right that there are so many investors who don't really care about those details but are hodling Bitcoin in hope to get rich because everyone talks about it but those are not the good investors but rather the greedy fellows who just want to invest blindly in assets that they don't understand themselves.

I'm sure a great many Bitcoin hodlers don't care about utility and use cases. Many don't even understand or even care about the features of Bitcoin. They're simply joining the Bitcoin investment bandwagon. That's enough for them.

I don't think Satoshi aimed at a number of use cases for Bitcoin. I believe the goal was to make an electronic cash system, an internet money. I don't think the intention was to create a new asset class or a financial instrument that people could speculate on or whatever. Bitcoin's features aren't use cases.

Everyone will certainly have an opinion according to the knowledge they have and for those who want to learn new things first, of course this is better because not all new things can be easily accepted by many people and they must first learn in order to accept it like Bitcoin which many consider something that cannot produce anything from holding the asset but for those who learn first will certainly try to accept and hold the asset so that they have been able to make a profit but for those who ignore the potential of Bitcoin will certainly regret it when others can make a profit from it. Yes, indeed not everyone has the same mentality in utilizing the potential of Bitcoin which has high volatility and for those who want to learn well then they will be able to hold the asset and also be able to make a profit from Bitcoin.

Utility, use cases are mutually support each other. You have nearly no reasons to HODL bitcoin if it does not have good utility and not many use cases.

Because basically we see that value creates from utility and use cases which not only Bitcoin but also many projects in blockchain and cryptocurrency aim at. They can succeed or fail with this mission to build up utility and use cases for their blockchain and coin or token but without value (lack of utility and use cases), price on market will be reflected properly to match with intrinsic value.

The bullish case for Bitcoin is an insightful and educational book for people who want to be enlightened more about Bitcoin. I believe you know many or all things written in the book well.

Well, not at all. Notice how I have never denied any of Bitcoin’s utility but rather used what has been stated in this thread as an opposition to some of the pointers brought up. The impression that I’ve been getting from your posts is that you’re focusing on what ‘Bitcoin’s main value proposition’ is and my response was meant to target exactly that. Contrary to popular belief, Bitcoin’s original intentions and current intentions is to create a currency which can facilitate micro transactions on a peer to peer level. Sure, you can argue that censorship is in the books, but that isn't the design focus. If you’re looking for something that ensures your anonymity and by extension censorship resistant, then the key value proposition of Monero fits better.

Not acknowledging the actual utility of Bitcoin and what us as developers has worked towards seems to focus and distort the perspective of everyone having the HODLING = Good. Expecting a currency to function like a currency for the masses without actively doing so seems to be a direct contradiction the main value proposition of Bitcoin, which is that's right: Facilitating peer to peer transactions. That is laughable.

In fact, HODLING is not intended to encourage people to hold Bitcoins and not actively use it. It was actually to dissuade people from panic selling in the volatile market conditions. That is fairly reasonable and I don’t dispute it. However, the perspective presented in this thread appears to be vastly different. Instead of HODLING, I suggest a better term to be hoarding.

They are playing the cards they were given, so to speak

I don't think their reason for trying to embrace bitcoin now is because they don't want to miss an account, but it could be because they have tried all that they could to control it, but it all landed to no avail.
 
The only option they are left with is to drag it closer to themselves and see what percentage of the market can be under their own control, which can only be achievable if a large number of holders are making use of a centralised system. If not, all they will still end up doing is watching the market, buying large volumes if they can, but they can't have their hand in controlling even 10% of the market movement.

They do not want to miss out that is why they are now coming into Bitcoin. They know the potential profit that they can make and have bad motives of controlling the market that is why they are attracted to Bitcoin but they can not succeed. Trump interest in Bitcoin is only because he wants to be known as the one that made Bitcoin successful, he said it in his speech that if Bitcoin was to be accepted that it should be the Americans leading the industry and I think he is saying this because he sees the way the Asia are leading with Binance exchange which is one of the biggest exchanges coming from an Asia founder. I do not see the downside of hodling Bitcoin but let us not be celebrating this people as they do not have good intentions for Bitcoin but only want power and control.

Are you suggesting that we actually should deny Bitcoin's technical design, what it's capable of achieving, and its power made possible from that technical design because you argue "white paper"?

Pardon me ser, but respectfully, it's a laughable suggestion.

Amen brother, I appreciate you and everyone who's in Bitcoin, short haul or long. I do understand your viewpoint -- I would be you, if not for the weird but normal fact I happen to earn in Bitcoin. I won't get into gold, but I will say I wish there were more people transacting in (digital) gold 10 years before Bitcoin, and in a more secure way. Carry on doing what you're doing. It cannot ever be bad for Bitcoin =)

The only thing that can take care of madness is reason and vice versa with people who do not believe in bitcoin. We live in the era of digitalization and any information should be seen openly, but in reality people fail to understand what Bitcoin is especially for those haters. Now we see that many people are starting to believe in Bitcoin and that happens so far to be discussed. I don't care about Trump, politicians or anyone because they speak according to their needs and sometimes their talk cannot be trusted.

But one thing that makes me optimistic that almost most people talk about Bitcoin because they understand their good side and they have seen the advantages that can be accepted by most people of the process born by Bitcoin itself. Bitcoin will be useful when someone intends to enter trade and investment, the rest is Bitcoin is an inanimate object that is not realized without being used properly by anyone.

Humans can be very controversial, such that everybody can never have the same view and opinion at every point in time, at the invention of Bitcoin majority thought it was a scam and today they must have been filled with so much regrets for not utilizing such opportunity of owning a Bitcoin asset at it's earliest days simply because of how much increments in value and the wider spread adoption Bitcoin has become off, Bitcoin is still a growing asset class hence am not surprised seeing that there are still those who only sees the downside of holding Bitcoin. Generally, I would say that everybody can never have the same mentality as regards to utilizing and maximizing the potential that Bitcoin holds as best performed when hold for a long term investment for at least 4 to 10 years or more.