To the people who only see the downsides of HODLing Bitcoin - page 4.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: CryptoHeadlineNews on August 09, 2024, 11:42:08 AM

Yes, it's true that with the physical impact and massive pump in the price change of Bitcoin for the past years have drawn global attention as an asset most suitable for long term investment. Because ever since the likes of Elon Musk, the most richest man in the world and Michael J. Saylor, the CEO of Microstrategy, the company known to owned the highest amount of Bitcoin ventured into crypto space, I was more confident that it will draw the attention of like-minded billionaires into it, which will foster the creation of an enabling environment for cryptocurrency entirely, hence, my only advice to those who always see the downside side of Bitcoin holding will be to not forget that Bitcoin is an asset with a more brighter future, and as such, the earlier they take advantage of it now, the better for them.

A "brighter future", but how? Is merely because of the potential for selling your coins at a higher price than your average entry price? Or is it more? I believe our philosophy for HODLing should not merely be about Bitcoin is an "investment". It should also be Bitcoin as a basis for a financial system which could bring forth real social and political changes around the world.

CryptoHeadlineNews

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Yes, it's true that with the physical impact and massive pump in the price change of Bitcoin for the past years have drawn global attention as an asset most suitable for long term investment. Because ever since the likes of Elon Musk, the most richest man in the world and Michael J. Saylor, the CEO of Microstrategy, the company known to owned the highest amount of Bitcoin ventured into crypto space, I was more confident that it will draw the attention of like-minded billionaires into it, which will foster the creation of an enabling environment for cryptocurrency entirely, hence, my only advice to those who always see the downside side of Bitcoin holding will be to not forget that Bitcoin is an asset with a more brighter future, and as such, the earlier they take advantage of it now, the better for them.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Iranus on August 09, 2024, 04:57:19 AM

As long as there is an agreement and consensus between two parties, anything can be used as currency, I understand that but what I want is to become a legal currency and be mass adoption.

It is a legal currency but it is not a legal tender. Generally I don’t think Bitcoin will become a legal tender at least widely. In terms of mass adoption, there is nothing to adopt if the general mindset is for people to make a quick buck and just don’t use it.

Going back to your original response, legal tender or mass adoption is not exactly the threshold for a P2P currency to take off. There is no reason why we should shift the goal post to that far and it is better for us to be realistic and accept that either of which may never be possible.

Quote from: Iranus on August 09, 2024, 04:57:19 AM

You may be right about the ETF, it doesn't promote the use cases or utility of bitcoin but also doesn't using bitcoin as a currency count as a utility? Many people are having difficulty transferring money or making cross-border payments and bitcoin is helping them do that, isn't that the utility of bitcoin? Even a seashell or a stone can become currency with the consent of both parties, so claiming that bitcoin has no utility is unfair to bitcoin.

You said that Bitcoin is not on track to becoming a P2P currency and further used ETFs to substantiate its worth.

I did not say that Bitcoin has no utility. The fact that ‘hodling’ has become so common basically means that people are treating it akin to an asset. The primary argument is that Bitcoin should be treated as an asset and it should not be used. I did say that Bitcoin should be used and that is where the value comes from.

Bitcoin ETF argument is actually fairly flawed as a counter point because it is precisely what fund managers are encouraging. Purchasing up tons of Bitcoins and essentially locking them in funds. This further cements its status as a speculative asset.

dzungmobile

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Quote from: jaberwock on August 09, 2024, 07:51:09 AM

What competition? No, BTC isn't involved in the competition between the sea of altcoins and tokens, or other types of species found in this world of cryptos. With what characteristic it has, it is automatically disqualified or over-qualified for it to still be included in the competition Cheesy

.

Altcoins include forks from Bitcoin, try to compete against Bitcoin and to beat Bitcoin. Bitcoin itself does not need to do the opposite, compete against altcoins.

Altcoin teams know that their projects are lack of quality, dedication for development and they want to make short term hype by naming their projects like Bitcoin forks or Bitcoin killers. Even so most altcoin projects fail and die with time because names can not help for development, demand and adoption in long term.

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What about Trump, Biden, and their involvement in Bitcoin? Things have changed through the years but this isn't a bad thing because this can mean that BTC will now be more legal and accepted. And don't worry because BTC is still decentralized and will remain as is. Apart from that, or apart from BTC, I heard that the Blockchain Technology is also being used on politics in order to attain more transparency. That is obviously a good thing right?

They can have more or less, positive or negative, policy contributions for Bitcoin over years but they can not do serious thing to kill Bitcoin. It's because Bitcoin decentralization which is a strongest specification of this blockchain.

Bitcoin after many years has grown up a lot, matured considerably with time and with Bitcoin Spot ETFs this year, it has already become strong enough to survive and exist in future.

jaberwock

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Quote from: Hewlet on August 08, 2024, 02:26:20 AM

it just goes to show that value and uniqueness will always break through regardless of the competition and resistance it faces. What made Bitcoin to survive at the time most of these cabals where against it till this moment when a lot of them are now advocating for it adoption and getting bullish about it is because of it uniqueness of being decentralized and having no central person they could point hands on to politicize in any way. It's surely a rewarding journey for all bitcoinner that have been in the system this while and now watching it become a serious consideration for most big global figures as a source of preservation of her wealth.

What competition? No, BTC isn't involved in the competition between the sea of altcoins and tokens, or other types of species found in this world of cryptos. With what characteristic it has, it is automatically disqualified or over-qualified for it to still be included in the competition Cheesy

.

Quote

having no central person they could point hands on to politicize in any way

What about Trump, Biden, and their involvement in Bitcoin? Things have changed through the years but this isn't a bad thing because this can mean that BTC will now be more legal and accepted. And don't worry because BTC is still decentralized and will remain as is. Apart from that, or apart from BTC, I heard that the Blockchain Technology is also being used on politics in order to attain more transparency. That is obviously a good thing right?

garlonicon

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Quote

it should take absolutely 100x more than "for even the smallest thing" for me to spend my precious Bitcoin

That's why we have test networks. For example, you can get 10k tBTC in testnet4, if you guess my pizza brainwallet. And there are other puzzles as well. So: if you don't want "to spend your precious Bitcoin", then you can always throw away some of your "worthless testnet coins". They are very similar to mainnet, you can demonstrate virtually anything you want, without moving real coins.

Also, if you really want to put 0% effort into mining, then you always have regtest. But since testnets can be easily CPU-mined, it is a good opportunity to mine some test coins, which are publicly visible.

Iranus

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Quote from: ranochigo on August 08, 2024, 03:23:02 AM

Quote from: Iranus on August 08, 2024, 03:09:37 AM

I agree that the purpose of creating bitcoin was for it to be a peer-to-peer currency that does not depend on any 3rd party but as of now, I don't think we can make that happen. Although we have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset for profit, even if we had not turned it into an asset, it would hardly have become a currency. The biggest barrier is the government because they will not allow a currency that is not under their control to be widely circulated and used. So it's not so bad that people turn bitcoin into an asset.

Bitcoin has useful use cases, it's not like tulips so I don't think there will be any bubble here. The Bitcoin ETF is probably proof of that, because if it were truly useless then I don't think an ETF would be proposed and passed.

Anything can be a currency so long as there is a value to it. Your seashells, your stones can be a currency if people are willing to put a value to it. You are confused with the difference between a legal tender and a currency. There are no laws within most jurisdictions that prohibits Bitcoin to be used as a currency. It is purely up to the merchants and the consumer preference.

I’m not sure what’s the comparison is with tulips. Bitcoin ETFs are formed solely because it is volatile, and speculative. It does not attest to its utility. People who are managing the ETFs are concerned primarily with the profits and anything else really doesn’t matter to them.

Your post probably also alludes to how the general public perceives Bitcoin. Over time as the popularity dies down, then you’ll be aware of what truly matters to investors.

As long as there is an agreement and consensus between two parties, anything can be used as currency, I understand that but what I want is to become a legal currency and be mass adoption.

You may be right about the ETF, it doesn't promote the use cases or utility of bitcoin but also doesn't using bitcoin as a currency count as a utility? Many people are having difficulty transferring money or making cross-border payments and bitcoin is helping them do that, isn't that the utility of bitcoin? Even a seashell or a stone can become currency with the consent of both parties, so claiming that bitcoin has no utility is unfair to bitcoin.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: buwaytress on August 08, 2024, 11:07:00 AM

Never truer words spoken about using Bitcoin. The maxis and the shillers and the Bitcoiners and whatever sort of people including myself can tish pish posh on how someone else chooses to use Bitcoin but the fact remains, if you or I did not use it, in the little ways we do, as often as we can, there would not be the sort of attention and awareness we have today for Bitcoin.

All the drama and the arguments, all the posturing and the evangelisation. If we didn't use Bitcoin, and didn't continue to use it, these things would not exist.

So the next time you see someone asking for Bitcoin for even the smallest thing. Go ahead and support it. New creator on the forum? New item being made and for sale? Buy it. Merit it.

Pardon me for saying, but personally it should take absolutely 100x more than "for even the smallest thing" for me to spend my precious Bitcoin - a censorship-resistant, decentralized, self-sovereign-giving cryptocurrency. Why would I spend Bitcoin on things I don't actually need just to tell everyone in the community that I have "used it". Those laughable virtue signaling people.

Plus HODLing IS using. People who spend their life-savings to HODL Bitcoin as a back-up/fall-back in case the current financial system collapses bring a lot of value to Bitcoin.

GiftedMAN

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Quote from: Dunamisx on August 08, 2024, 10:52:06 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

Bitcoin is a movement that attracts "The Cabal" to where the people are. Currently, we now have Black Rock and the largest asset managers having investments in Bitcoin, and Trump and other politicians talking seriously about Bitcoin. Ten years ago suggesting that that would happen would be laughable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Life is sometimes unpredictable, some will go against something they knew nothing about, all because they are following strict order from the centralized authorities over that same thing, this is one of the first mentality in which many were having towards bitcoin in the first place, it couldn't have been this same achievements on bitcoin we could have been talking about with the political elites and giant financial institutions assuming bitcoin wasn't successful to this day, but the result in it were evident enough to the public and all those who adopted for its use, which is why many now couldn't afford to underestimate the influence from bitcoin.

I think a lot of people misunderstood what Bitcoin stands for because of the rumors they heard from the government and media which has been the major haters of Bitcoin and that is one of the things that has affected the global adoption of Bitcoin followed by the influence of the higher government authorities who finds it difficult to understand nor control Bitcoin investors the way they do to other financial institutions.

Bitcoin has survived the rumors and it still proves that it will be in existence in generations to come as the life span is unmatched to any other cryptocurrency currency so I think those who never believed it will only end in regret while people are still taking advantage of the current dip to accumulate and hold more.

Wakate

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

Bitcoin is a movement that attracts "The Cabal" to where the people are. Currently, we now have Black Rock and the largest asset managers having investments in Bitcoin, and Trump and other politicians talking seriously about Bitcoin. Ten years ago suggesting that that would happen would be laughable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can see that the movement still continues and those people that think Bitcoin is not going to shock the world are just deceiving themselves. We are yet to see more impressive thoughts many people have about Bitcoin. The adoption keeps increasing which have been making other big billionaires to see a good reasons why they should invest in Bitcoin before it's too late. The journey of Bitcoin is never impressive Bitcoin has time goes on, people have seen reasons why they don't need to miss the opportunity of buying some holding and keeping there portfolio for when the price of going to give them profits.

buwaytress

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Never truer words spoken about using Bitcoin. The maxis and the shillers and the Bitcoiners and whatever sort of people including myself can tish pish posh on how someone else chooses to use Bitcoin but the fact remains, if you or I did not use it, in the little ways we do, as often as we can, there would not be the sort of attention and awareness we have today for Bitcoin.

All the drama and the arguments, all the posturing and the evangelisation. If we didn't use Bitcoin, and didn't continue to use it, these things would not exist.

So the next time you see someone asking for Bitcoin for even the smallest thing. Go ahead and support it. New creator on the forum? New item being made and for sale? Buy it. Merit it.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

Bitcoin is a movement that attracts "The Cabal" to where the people are. Currently, we now have Black Rock and the largest asset managers having investments in Bitcoin, and Trump and other politicians talking seriously about Bitcoin. Ten years ago suggesting that that would happen would be laughable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Life is sometimes unpredictable, some will go against something they knew nothing about, all because they are following strict order from the centralized authorities over that same thing, this is one of the first mentality in which many were having towards bitcoin in the first place, it couldn't have been this same achievements on bitcoin we could have been talking about with the political elites and giant financial institutions assuming bitcoin wasn't successful to this day, but the result in it were evident enough to the public and all those who adopted for its use, which is why many now couldn't afford to underestimate the influence from bitcoin.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

Bitcoin is a movement that attracts "The Cabal" to where the people are. Currently, we now have Black Rock and the largest asset managers having investments in Bitcoin, and Trump and other politicians talking seriously about Bitcoin. Ten years ago suggesting that that would happen would be laughable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yea, I think you are right; no one would have ever believed this if it was suggested ten years ago. But what I am thinking right now is that if really Trump is now in support of Bitcoin and if everything they say about Bitcoin is meant by them, it might not remain like that for ever. What if another US President emerges in the future and he is not a Bitcoiner? It probably will also cause another effect on the market then.

Bitcoin is cool if we use it as we please (I don't mean in a bad way). Bitcoin doesn't need the government help for it to stand out; even when the price of Bitcoin started off at $1, it was not the help of the government that made it reach $100; it didn't make it reach $1000 or $10, 000, but all of a sudden their interest has all been aggravated. I don't accept the idea of the government holding a large sum of bitcoin.

m2017

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

This is already happening. Ordinary people like you and me have been using bitcoin for a long time as each of us wants. But more often than not, it turns out that people use bitcoin not as a means of payment (I suppose that's what you meant?), but as a means of speculation (buy cheaper - sell more expensive) and as a result, they adhere to the HODL strategy (up to a certain point).

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

Bitcoin is a movement that attracts "The Cabal" to where the people are. Currently, we now have Black Rock and the largest asset managers having investments in Bitcoin, and Trump and other politicians talking seriously about Bitcoin. Ten years ago suggesting that that would happen would be laughable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Expecting this 10 years ago was ridiculous, but the community wanted it, expecting an rapid price increase as a consequence. Now we have all waited for this moment, but whether the BTC-community will be happy about it is a good question.

Obim34

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on August 07, 2024, 06:31:43 PM

Quote from: Algominer2 on August 07, 2024, 10:20:21 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

People aren't really "using" bitcoin and probably never will. As a currency it sucks, but long-term holding as a store of value is where it excels. Everyone should be aiming to just hold a as much as they can afford for as long as possible.

For now, using it as payment method is not rampant so to speak because of considerations such as high tx fees, duration and convenience.Most are just holding it for the very reason of getting high profits.

I made a topic one time as to the major reason why investors, firms, business owners and government are beginning to get involved into Bitcoin, which is valued on the profits to be made. Aside this profits, we won't have as much investors interested in Bitcoin because as you stated not an absolute idea for making payments on trades and services due to tx fees which isn't something stable, goes up and down to a point where the fee can sometimes be unbearable.

If it weren't legit, Bitcoin wouldn't have succeeded to where it is now despite the criticism from when and how it started, surprisingly Bitcoin has been a merit to anyone who has participated and likely has to put those negativity ablaze.

lovesmayfamilis

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Quote from: ranochigo on August 07, 2024, 10:10:41 AM

Make no mistake, Bitcoin’s intention is to become a P2P electronic cash system. If people only invest in Bitcoin because they think its going to make them rich, then its a typical sign of a bubble.

The worst thing is when people with this kind of thinking perceive Bitcoin as a panacea for poverty, selling their valuables and waiting for the hour X when their investments will make the owners rich. There are many calls on the forum not to sell bitcoins under any circumstances, thereby depriving themselves of a lot, and as a result, such people are often disappointed, if not ruined. The volatility of Bitcoin sometimes plays against such fanatics, while if people used Bitcoin more often as a means of payment, they would receive more benefits than blindly storing it without specific goals.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 07, 2024, 03:41:09 AM

We only need ordinary people like you and me to start using Bitcoin in any way each person would like.

Bitcoin is a movement that attracts "The Cabal" to where the people are. Currently, we now have Black Rock and the largest asset managers having investments in Bitcoin, and Trump and other politicians talking seriously about Bitcoin. Ten years ago suggesting that that would happen would be laughable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, ten years ago, suggesting that those things you mentioned will happen, was simply seeing or predicting the future for me.
Yeah, in terms of price, I believe no one, or not very many persons believed that Bitcoin will become this valuable as it is today, but in terms of utility, even satoshi himself or theirself did not create bitcoin to end up in the hands of just a few persons, but to grow to become a wide spread means of transferring value across the world easily, fast and cheap.
What would have become laughable is and was if this dream of bitcoin becoming a global means of internet transactions wasnt achieved.

But all the same, i understand the angle you are coming from though, and lets just say that it feels good seeing how far bitcoin has come, and all the milestones it has shattered, bitcoin is not there yet if compared to assets like gold and the rest, and this is why investing and holding bitcoin now is still one of the best decisions anyone can make for him or herself.

dzungmobile

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Quote from: ranochigo on August 08, 2024, 03:23:02 AM

Anything can be a currency so long as there is a value to it. Your seashells, your stones can be a currency if people are willing to put a value to it. You are confused with the difference between a legal tender and a currency. There are no laws within most jurisdictions that prohibits Bitcoin to be used as a currency. It is purely up to the merchants and the consumer preference.

Yes, everything can be used as currency or in other words as mean of exchange, if people in that community accept to use it like this. Value of a thing depends on how people assess it and accept it.

The history of Stone money in the Yap island.

Quote

One of the amazing facts about the stone money, or Rai as they are called in Yapese, is that these gigantic stone discs were not quarried on the island.

Being legally, legal tender will help its legality status but even does not reach to this level, people can use bitcoin as a mean of exchange many things in society. They of course have to consent with lawyers or read legal regulation documents by themselves, to avoid legal problems.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Iranus on August 08, 2024, 03:09:37 AM

I agree that the purpose of creating bitcoin was for it to be a peer-to-peer currency that does not depend on any 3rd party but as of now, I don't think we can make that happen. Although we have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset for profit, even if we had not turned it into an asset, it would hardly have become a currency. The biggest barrier is the government because they will not allow a currency that is not under their control to be widely circulated and used. So it's not so bad that people turn bitcoin into an asset.

Bitcoin has useful use cases, it's not like tulips so I don't think there will be any bubble here. The Bitcoin ETF is probably proof of that, because if it were truly useless then I don't think an ETF would be proposed and passed.

Anything can be a currency so long as there is a value to it. Your seashells, your stones can be a currency if people are willing to put a value to it. You are confused with the difference between a legal tender and a currency. There are no laws within most jurisdictions that prohibits Bitcoin to be used as a currency. It is purely up to the merchants and the consumer preference.

I’m not sure what’s the comparison is with tulips. Bitcoin ETFs are formed solely because it is volatile, and speculative. It does not attest to its utility. People who are managing the ETFs are concerned primarily with the profits and anything else really doesn’t matter to them.

Your post probably also alludes to how the general public perceives Bitcoin. Over time as the popularity dies down, then you’ll be aware of what truly matters to investors.

dzungmobile

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Quote from: Iranus on August 08, 2024, 03:09:37 AM

I agree that the purpose of creating bitcoin was for it to be a peer-to-peer currency that does not depend on any 3rd party but as of now, I don't think we can make that happen. Although we have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset for profit, even if we had not turned it into an asset, it would hardly have become a currency.

There are third parties to confirm Bitcoin transactions, find Bitcoin blocks but they are decentralized around the world and it's better with decentralization compares to banks that are centralized.

Bitcoin serves many use cases and we don't actually need Bitcoin to become legal tender as a currency, to use it as Store of Value or as a mean for exchange. If government in your country don't make fund transfers through Bitcoin blockchain is illegal, you can do it without fear that government don't accept it as a currency.

There are no KYC exchanges to use too if you are concerning about privacy.

Topic: To the people who only see the downsides of HODLing Bitcoin - page 4. (Read 1260 times)